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Comments on news posted 2021-08-31 07:00:51: • FCC Bungled Broadband Mapping And Subsidies So Badly, It Got Boxed Out Of Broadband Infrastructure Plan [techdirt.com] • ‘The missing piece:’ What is the third-party enablement business model for rural broadband? [rcrwireless. ..


tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Gulfport, MS

11 recommendations

tc1uscg

Member

Not enough backup power

How many of those towers failed due to not having a generator? How many failed because of the wind detached things like the antenna elements and how many towers were blown down? Make no joke about it, take a ride down hwy 90, eastward toward Mississippi, and take note of WHY people put their houses on stilts near areas prone to flooding. Look close because you will see A/C units, even generators, up high also.
toolman1990
join:2019-06-26
Cincinnati, OH
·MetroPCS

3 recommendations

toolman1990

Member

Re: Not enough backup power

said by tc1uscg:

How many of those towers failed due to not having a generator? How many failed because of the wind detached things like the antenna elements and how many towers were blown down? Make no joke about it, take a ride down hwy 90, eastward toward Mississippi, and take note of WHY people put their houses on stilts near areas prone to flooding. Look close because you will see A/C units, even generators, up high also.

A lot of towers failed due to the flooding and wind damage. I believe winds were sustained around 100 MPH with guests up to 130 MPH. I suspect tower equipment and the monopole were not designed to take those kinds of sustained wind speeds. If you are going to stay in a hurricane zone without evacuating you might want to purchase a satellite phone.

tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Gulfport, MS

2 edits

2 recommendations

tc1uscg

Member

Re: Not enough backup power

Click for full size
I agree about the sat phone. Short of ham radio (base or portable), it's, pricy but a sure way to reach out and touch someone.

God forbid they figure out how to put their cell sites a little higher off the ground. If Taco Bell and Waffle House figured it out, (in Gulfport. Biloxi), AT&T et all can do it too. Not like they have ever eaten there LOL Areas prone to flooding, get it off the freaking ground.

There are towers designed to handle cat 5 hurricanes (and level 3, 4 tornados). Why would they EVEN think of using something less in areas like that? Maybe during the rebuild, they will replace the towers designed for the region.

cralt
join:2011-01-07
CT

7 recommendations

cralt

Member

AT&T ?FirstNet

Sold as a pubic safety network but always seems to fail when there is a natural disaster or any sort of widespread power outage. All the spectrum and money given to them for it and it’s turned out be be nothing more then a glorified discount program for anyone loosely connected to public safety.
What’s even worse is it’s sold as a network public safety can count on. So agency’s go with that rather then maintain their more costly traditional communication systems.
But in the time of need when SHTF they find out it’s no better then the standard consumer grade cell network and they are dead in the water. And always the same “We here for you” and “we are working around the clock” response when you ask them why it’s out.

You would think in NOLA of all places their firstnet sites would be hardened with real standby power and have microwave backhaul.

Astyanax
Premium Member
join:2002-11-14
Melbourne, FL
·AT&T FTTP

4 recommendations

Astyanax

Premium Member

Re: AT&T ?FirstNet

said by cralt:

You would think in NOLA of all places their firstnet sites would be hardened with real standby power and have microwave backhaul.

You have no clue as to what was experienced there. They had 150 MPH winds with gusts they think up to 172 MPH which is close to the highest winds ever recorded in the US. Virtually no infrastructure short of solid concrete is going to withstand that.

Although I'm not the one suffering there but I would cut them some slack.

»weather.com/storms/hurri ··· trongest

Anondcfde
@47.13.109.x

2 recommendations

Anondcfde

Anon

Re: AT&T ?FirstNet

said by Astyanax:

said by cralt:

You would think in NOLA of all places their firstnet sites would be hardened with real standby power and have microwave backhaul.

You have no clue as to what was experienced there. They had 150 MPH winds with gusts they think up to 172 MPH which is close to the highest winds ever recorded in the US. Virtually no infrastructure short of solid concrete is going to withstand that.

Although I'm not the one suffering there but I would cut them some slack.

»weather.com/storms/hurri ··· trongest

yeah except they aren't bringing up all 3 carriers. Just 2. So Verizon seemed to do alright

Astyanax
Premium Member
join:2002-11-14
Melbourne, FL
·AT&T FTTP

3 recommendations

Astyanax

Premium Member

Re: AT&T ?FirstNet

said by Anondcfde :

said by Astyanax:

said by cralt:

You would think in NOLA of all places their firstnet sites would be hardened with real standby power and have microwave backhaul.

You have no clue as to what was experienced there. They had 150 MPH winds with gusts they think up to 172 MPH which is close to the highest winds ever recorded in the US. Virtually no infrastructure short of solid concrete is going to withstand that.

Although I'm not the one suffering there but I would cut them some slack.

»weather.com/storms/hurri ··· trongest

yeah except they aren't bringing up all 3 carriers. Just 2. So Verizon seemed to do alright

I'm no cell tech but those might be their portable units they were able to get deployed post-storm. If you want to be critical about the other carriers not getting their portables set up sooner then you might have a legit gripe.

tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Gulfport, MS

8 recommendations

tc1uscg

Member

Re: AT&T ?FirstNet

I kind of recall the emergency response rule book with Sprint. Though I was a switch tech at the CO, our cell techs (and fiber ops guys) would go to a staging area that they have stored MANY portable generators. They would move them to "other areas" aka, pre-stage, to make getting to them easier and spread them out. Once the storm passed or during (we don't have 150+ mph winds up here in Michigan thank god, they would deploy generators to those sites that were not considered "golden" but next in line for importance. Will be interesting to see any after-action reports as to why AT&T and TMO didn't do well and VZW did.

Note: Golden sites had stationary generators and were placed all over the area to ensure coverage along freeways and inner-city and in spots outside major urban areas. Wasn't supposed to be 100% but enough to get buy.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

-1 recommendation

tshirt to Astyanax

Premium Member

to Astyanax
said by Astyanax:

.....be their portable units they were able to get deployed post-storm.

Not knowing which towers will be damaged, they can only move them to high ground at some place near where they MAY be needed.
One of the problems experienced was with the storm surge and massive rain fall sometimes you can't get from safe storage point to deployment point until it drains for a few days then you have to hope the road is still there and stable....
In puerto rico, haiti, etc. they assumed units that would need helicopter delivery and resupply for quite a number and could deliver at least partial services fairly quickly. US needs more palletized airlifted ability in case the rest of the infrastructure (roads/powerlines/etc) no longer exists or the high spot in the bayou is still below the waterline. Truck mount doesn't work everywhere.
bman212121
join:2005-06-09

1 recommendation

bman212121 to Anondcfde

Member

to Anondcfde
No, Verizon didn't do "alright". Verizon's PR did "alright". Since the article is basically clickbait that no one actually reads, the heading was able to spin it how they wanted to.

"Verizon also did not say exactly how much of its network in Louisiana is operating normally, either on its website or when contacted by Ars. But the company said it's handled the storm well in the New Orleans and Baton Rouge areas where AT&T is struggling."

"Verizon said it has "gaps in coverage" in coastal areas of Louisiana, Thibodaux, Morgan City, Houma, Hammond, and the southern coastline of Lake Pontchartrain."

The percentages being thrown around don't really say anything meaningful either. 60% of normal. Does that mean that one town is at 100% and another is 10%? Does it mean that 60% of the coverage area is operational? Without actual information it's quite hard to draw and real conclusions from what was presented in the article.
Expand your moderator at work

tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Gulfport, MS

5 recommendations

tc1uscg to bman212121

Member

to bman212121

Re: AT&T ?FirstNet

I think the point was over all, Verizon had better coverage/service than the other two. The numbers don't mean anything. But trolling forums, one might come to the conclusion they all need some improvements.
nitin00
join:2010-01-17
Stockton, CA

nitin00 to bman212121

Member

to bman212121
THIS! rofl. Basically got sold by verizon PR cuz they refused to give a number ROFL!
toolman1990
join:2019-06-26
Cincinnati, OH
·MetroPCS

3 recommendations

toolman1990 to Anondcfde

Member

to Anondcfde
said by Anondcfde :

said by Astyanax:

said by cralt:

You would think in NOLA of all places their firstnet sites would be hardened with real standby power and have microwave backhaul.

You have no clue as to what was experienced there. They had 150 MPH winds with gusts they think up to 172 MPH which is close to the highest winds ever recorded in the US. Virtually no infrastructure short of solid concrete is going to withstand that.

Although I'm not the one suffering there but I would cut them some slack.

»weather.com/storms/hurri ··· trongest

yeah except they aren't bringing up all 3 carriers. Just 2. So Verizon seemed to do alright

Verizon Wireless also has spent a lot of resources into their disaster recovery team compared to AT&T and T Mobile USA.

tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Gulfport, MS

1 edit

7 recommendations

tc1uscg to Astyanax

Member

to Astyanax
said by Astyanax:

said by cralt:

You would think in NOLA of all places their firstnet sites would be hardened with real standby power and have microwave backhaul.

You have no clue as to what was experienced there. They had 150 MPH winds with gusts they think up to 172 MPH which is close to the highest winds ever recorded in the US. Virtually no infrastructure short of solid concrete is going to withstand that.

Although I'm not the one suffering there but I would cut them some slack.

»weather.com/storms/hurri ··· trongest

This brings up a good point. I was "told" by a home inspector that after Katrina, lots of codes were updated. Like the 150mph rule on some structures. A typical Blackhawk off the shelf isn't designed to fly in winds over a certain speed. Not that they can't, but the standard 60 isn't. The Jayhawks the Coast Guard flys are designed to fly in shitty weather, just like the ones used by the PJ's in the Chair Force (no offense to any Air Force peeps ) and that's why during Katrina and Ida, they were up flying WAY before other 1st responders had their 1st cup of morning coffee.

But, if telco's didn't (or were not required) to harden their systems, then there's nothing to complain about. Take it up with FEMA/FCC. Some people, after Katrina, said "Oh crap, guess when we rebuild, we need to make it better (the tune of the 6 million man starts in my head)". Look at the Coast Guard station in Gulf Port MS. My god, it's like a freaking fortress and was built to withstand winds of a cat 4 hurricane and surges over 18 ft (even though down the beach, Katrina had a surge of 22+ ft above sea level). Having talked to some "members' from that unit, it can handle higher water and higher winds but they wouldn't want to be there to find out if the lowest bidder did it right. So, as with other stations along the coast, they have been either rebuilt or upgraded to deal with cat 4 winds and water surges. Not that they (people) would stay there during that, but they would at least have a building to come back to.

I've not had the displeasure of riding out a Hurricane onshore. I've road out Mitch and Georges on a ship only 210ft long, and both times with a helo strapped to the deck. I learned two very important things. Do not drink milk or eat snickers bars when riding out a cat 4 or 5 storm. I've been in lower-end "storms" but nothing like a cat 4 or 5 system. My hats off to the Navy pukes who ride out Typhoons in the western Pacific. During those times, I will rather be on a sub about 400ft below it all.

cralt
join:2011-01-07
CT

1 edit

1 recommendation

cralt to Astyanax

Member

to Astyanax
said by Astyanax:

You have no clue as to what was experienced there.

This is not specific to this one instance, it happens when ever there is wide area power outages. Their disaster plan is send guys out with portable generators and hope they can get there before the batteries die. Maybe sprinkle some COW's around if they can get in there the day after the time of most need has passed. Verizon (and old sprint) seems to be the only carrier that believes in having fixed gensets onsite. If you look at ATT's own list you can see their only Firstnet spec site is in East Carroll Parish. Yet they sell Firstnet statewide? They are putting it on their normal consumer towers and sales is selling it as something much more capable.

Verizon built in enough generator powered overlap to cover holes from failed sites. The states's LWIN p25 network is up and running fine.

When ATT was given the spectrum and money for Firstnet they promised to build something much more robust. And like normal they skated on the deal and no one will holds them accountable.

Astyanax
Premium Member
join:2002-11-14
Melbourne, FL
·AT&T FTTP

7 recommendations

Astyanax

Premium Member

Re: AT&T ?FirstNet

said by cralt:

said by Astyanax:

You have no clue as to what was experienced there.

This is not specific to this one instance, it happens when ever there is wide area power outages. Their disaster plan is send guys out with portable generators and hope they can get there before the batteries die. Maybe sprinkle some COW's around if they can get in there the day after the time of most need has passed.

I was referring really to the COW's more than the portable generators. But don't the COWs require some sort of reliable backhaul to function? All the power in the world isn't going to matter if the fiber/cable line to the tower is cut somewhere or the antenna is blown off the tower.

cralt
join:2011-01-07
CT

5 recommendations

cralt

Member

Re: AT&T ?FirstNet

Click for full size
Click for full size
said by Astyanax:

But don't the COWs require some sort of reliable backhaul to function?

Yes, its called satellite.


Astyanax
Premium Member
join:2002-11-14
Melbourne, FL
·AT&T FTTP

9 recommendations

Astyanax

Premium Member

Re: AT&T ?FirstNet

said by cralt:

said by Astyanax:

But don't the COWs require some sort of reliable backhaul to function?

Yes, its called satellite.

Didn't think of that. I learn something new everyday.

Reminds me of those portable ICBM launchers.

tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Gulfport, MS

2 edits

5 recommendations

tc1uscg

Member

Re: AT&T ?FirstNet

said by Astyanax:

said by cralt:

said by Astyanax:

But don't the COWs require some sort of reliable backhaul to function?

Yes, its called satellite.

Didn't think of that. I learn something new everyday.

Reminds me of those portable ICBM launchers.

AT&T has deep pockets and they can respond to disasters and kick butt doing it. Kind of warmed and fuzzyed the heart seeing them taking care of the cat and dog. One minute, lining up a shot to a sat, next, holding a kitty.

Not the video with the kitty but a good overview of their systems:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· RPNEmvb0


This is the one I noticed the dog and cat.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· Sg0SmvYA

Astyanax
Premium Member
join:2002-11-14
Melbourne, FL

4 recommendations

Astyanax

Premium Member

Re: AT&T ?FirstNet

That's pretty neat too. I pity the drone pilot who has to stand there for hours on end just keeping the drone hovering in one spot.

tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Gulfport, MS

tc1uscg

Member

Re: AT&T ?FirstNet

said by Astyanax:

That's pretty neat too. I pity the drone pilot who has to stand there for hours on end just keeping the drone hovering in one spot.

I've got a couple of "cheaper" drones. You can launch and have the hover w/o holding the controller. I'm going to guess theirs can do that and much more. The smaller ones don't do well though in winds over 15 mph. A good GPS unit will at least stay in a 10 ft radious.
Ostracus
join:2011-09-05
Henderson, KY

6 recommendations

Ostracus to cralt

Member

to cralt
Starlink just may change the face of disasters.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

2 recommendations

tshirt

Premium Member

Re: AT&T ?FirstNet

said by Ostracus:

Starlink just may change the face of disasters.

that or similar tech providing a gateway down to a populous that likely already has cell phones VS "special emergency FEMA LEO sat phone (Iridium like?)" in hand.
way cheaper and more people served
nitin00
join:2010-01-17
Stockton, CA

1 recommendation

nitin00 to Astyanax

Member

to Astyanax
They got vehicles with towers and satellites on them. Again you really need to do more research on firstnet. Go to linked in and watch some videos ROFL. They got all kinds of shit ready to deploy within the hour when Firstnet emergency subscribers request them for repairs. They just go there and light up the thing via satellite. Nothing else required. They are coming up with even more impressive shit down the road.
nitin00

1 edit

nitin00 to cralt

Member

to cralt
Do you even now how it works though? FIRSTNET during outages equipment is deployed on demand bases to organizations as they repair. Sure towers can get damaged, what the hell can you do about it during a hurricane? you can only address after the fact, just because verizon didn't give a number doesn't mean they were okay, just means their marketing decided to hide that number. Emergency company those that subscribe to Firstnet, police, utility etc can request special vehicles to get them coverage within an hour or so. I hate speaking for AT&T but some people really need to be more informed. FirstNet is just band 14, during outages they deploy dedicated vehicles, flying cows and shit to help those responding to emergency if they are subscribing to FirstNet.