So basically, as long as Brilliant buried the presence of this P2P stealth network in Kazaa's TOS, it is A-OK to do what they did...implant an application into everyone's system that may or may not cause system resource issues most likely w/o their knowledge or conscious consent. Let's see a show of hands... Anyone else as happy with this news as the CEO of Brilliant is? You don't mind handing over a few cycles of your pc to process another company's "computing tasks" do you? -- If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy? -T.Jefferson
said by BridgeTapBob:Ya know...if only they had the courage to run literacy ads....imagine the chaos then.
If I'm understanding you correctly by literacy ads I'm assuming you mean pc literacy ads? As in if people actually understood the intracacies of their computers then perhaps the widespread ignorance of spyware/trojans/virii would be a thing of the past? -- If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy? -T.Jefferson
Now imagine if a company did this to use your computer for distributed computing for something like. Cracking the human genome.. and then they pantented most or the whole of the DNA (wich has allways existed its not like they MADE it). And then they invent drugs and therapies that they also pantent and charge ridiculous amounts of money YOU to use them while lying in your deathbed.
"Regular" spyware is bad enough, this sounds just plain old scary - Quote "You hereby grant (Brilliant) the right to access and use the unused computing power and storage space on your computer/s and/or Internet access or bandwidth for the aggregation of content and use in distributed computing," end quote. So they basically can take over my PC and use the CPU cycles AND my hard drive for whatever they deem to be acceptable.
And doing this in cooperation with Doubleclick is even scarier: Quote "Bermeister said the company had been testing the technology along with ad giants DoubleClick as a way to serve ordinary Web ads more quickly" I don' ttrust those folks as far as I can throw them.
from what i have seen most of these peer to peer music sharing services are all putting something on your machine, which of course is how they get income. some of these "services" are poorly written and cause computer crashes etc. there was a piece in pc magazine a few issues ago about these "phone home" and "ad popup" programs.
when will people realise that there is no free lunch with these services. lets face it they are probably letting users do illegal stuff anyway so whats a little bit of spyware between friends.
As far as I can tell WinMX is spyware free. You just have to do your homework before going to one of these P2P programs. I think this stuff is old news as I have heard about spyware in Kazaa a long time ago when reading individuals commenting on it. The TOS is probably the same one as I think that's what people were saying about it back then. Same goes for Morpheus. -- When do I get my freakin' third star?!?!?
The only legal issues that exist to my knowledge are that the RIAA & Hollywood would like nothing better than to make all digital content and the uses of any PVRs (personal video recorders) including pc's explicitly under their control so that you & I cannot make copies or record anything we see or hear without first having to fork over more money for the privilege. I'm not aware of anything specifically illegal that people may be committing by sharing files which is what your post alluded to. I was asking because your statement led the reader to conclude that you know something with regard to this matter that everyone else -including myself- apparently does not. -- If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy? -T.Jefferson
said by mags2: I'm not aware of anything specifically illegal that people may be committing by sharing files which is what your post alluded to.
Well, then I guess you're in the dark. Pretty much the whole alt.binary.* hierarchy on Usenet is in violation of copyright laws. There have been numerous groups abandoned and many poster's have had attorney's threaten them for copyright violations. A few poster's have even actually gotten busted for copyright violations. The suze (Suze Randall) groups are a prime example of this.
To put it simply, sharing mp3's, videos, and photographs is illegal if someone owns the copyright to them. The same thing can be said of the activity in the warez groups too. -- "If she had to know me straight neither of us could stand it" - Richard Hell
said by hld3: To put it simply, sharing mp3's, videos, and photographs is illegal if someone owns the copyright to them. The same thing can be said of the activity in the warez groups too.
Well then I guess the copyright police are going to have to go out and have everyone who trades music digitally & populates the various illegal usenet groups arrested & thrown in jail. And as long as we're rounding up the violaters, I hope that you are going to personally chuck your VCR -as well as all other devices that are able to record- because everything at some point in time was created by someone else and eventually copyrighted,including Victor Hugo's idea of the Hunchback of Notre Dame, which Disney -now crying copyright foul with the rest of the digital copyright oligopoly- took & distorted into a ridiculous cartoon. Had the DMCA been in existence at the time, Disney and others like them would be SOL. So next time, don't be so quick to defend the status quo of the RIAA and other corrupt corporate entities. -- If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy? -T.Jefferson [text was edited by author 2002-04-02 13:33:47]
said by hld3:To put it simply, sharing mp3's, videos, and photographs is illegal if someone owns the copyright to them. The same thing can be said of the activity in the warez groups too.
Chucking everyone into the same category just because they use mp3's is a flawed conclusion. Just because people are creating mp3's ripping CD's from them and even sharing them doesn't mean copyright violations happen ALL the time. I would say over 90% of the mp3's in my computer are either from CD's I already own or are songs no longer available on any national record label catalog. Yes I have copywritten songs I didn't pay for. Yes I have bought lots of CD in direct response of me enjoying those coywritten songs. Let not forget most artists seem to advocate file sharing. This law is attacking ALL of the users of digital recording technology including completely legitimate users, the occasional pirate (which didn't seem to be a big deal until recently), and the extremely cheap "I won't spend a dime if I can get it for free" user.
Mags it's interesting you should bring up Disney and copyright. I was talking to my friends yesterday and it turns out none of us could find a single Disney animated feature film that was actually an original story other than Fantasia. It seems all the ideas from their big animated movies were taken from something else whether it be an author, fairy tale or flat out from another movie. So much for their cries of protecting the artist. -- When do I get my freakin' third star?!?!?
said by SRFireside: Mags it's interesting you should bring up Disney and copyright. I was talking to my friends yesterday and it turns out none of us could find a single Disney animated feature film that was actually an original story other than Fantasia. It seems all the ideas from their big animated movies were taken from something else whether it be an author, fairy tale or flat out from another movie. So much for their cries of protecting the artist.
Would you really expect anything less from these hypocrites. They "borrowed" all of the old material from other artists -Hunchback & Snow White to name a few- copyrighted it for themselves calling it their own, then paid off Congress to push a law into effect to guard their hegemony. -- Can any of you seriously say the Bill of Rights could get through Congress today? It wouldn't even get out of committee. -F. Lee Bailey
Are you guys feeling a little bitter today? All I did was say that it *is* against the law. I didn't say I agreed with it, or that it was right! mags2, you jumped harshly on brgraham for making a simple comment. And then you jumped on me for "defending the status quo of the RIAA", which I did not do. Why?
And SRFireside, did I say anything at all about people burning mp3's for their own pleasure/use? No, I didn't! I talked about sharing them. Which technically happens to be illegal.
BTW - I happen to have about a terabyte of copyrighted material I've downloaded from Usenet over the years. And I have posted quite a bit of copyrighted material too. So next time, please read what is said a little more carefully before you jump on someone -- "If she had to know me straight neither of us could stand it" - Richard Hell [text was edited by author 2002-04-02 16:38:54]
said by hld3:And SRFireside, did I say anything at all about people burning mp3's for their own pleasure/use? No, I didn't! I talked about sharing them. Which technically happens to be illegal.
Well technically file sharing in of itself is not illegal either. As you stated sharing copyrighted material without permission of the copyright owner is. I write music and have songs I have written on mp3. When I share them or allow others to pull them off of WinMX it is perfectly legal as I allow it. Lots of songs that are being shared are done so by the owner's consent. I am still taking this illegal file sharing deal with a grain of salt as copyright law states you have to pay royalties when you profit off of copywritten materials. Me passing a song from Meat Beat Manifesto that I want to share doesn't make me any profit.
But as you have said these are all semantics. To be honest it's not you personally that I am sparring with, just the issue brought forth. The best thing about DSLR is challenging views and opinions brought up. I brought up a point didn't specifically address, being this new bill will affect legitimate users. We can disagree on the execution of my point. But don't begrudge me because work is boring today -- When do I get my freakin' third star?!?!?
I always knew that there were more programs built into Kazaa. I can't believe it took this long for people to find out about it, especially the Brilliant Digital Entertainment software, which makes the 3d projector program for playing stuff in the Kazaa interface... They also have another piece of software built in by Cydoor but Im not real familiar with it and haven't had time to mess with it... -- Silicon Works Inc. firstname.lastname@example.org
i am with you, this info has been around for a while so whats the surprise with kaaza. i only found out about spyware because i do some computer consulting and a customer of mine where the boss of a small company managed to trash his computer somehow and i spent 3 days getting his data back and rebuilding his hard drive with win 2k. it was rock solid when i left him. well 3 months later he had problems with everything again and i had just read an article about these peer to peer shareware crap programs. plus i noticed he had 7 gig of mp3's. i ran adaware on his machine and he had 50 or so of these spyware progs. i searched for some of them on the internet and was shocked by the size of them and the resources that they used. the problems they cause was well documented, even microsoft knowledge base has some listed as known problems. guess what, i got rid of all of them and it fixed 100% of his problems.
Exactly... This stuff isn't that new... Your downloading their program for free and in return your giving your computer and resources to do whatever they wish with it... Also it isn't like anyone ever reads or can understand the TOS that come along with these programs, so who really knows what they are hiding in their code to run on there computer... -- Silicon Works Inc. email@example.com
Good question. I also use Grok and the only spyware that I'm aware of was of the cydoor variety which can be neutered with a dummy .dll file. Unless we find out otherwise, I'm assuming Grok is kosher. Whichever it is, I'm sure we'll get to the bottom of it. There are too many knowledgeable people on DSLR for us to remain collectively blind. -- If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy? -T.Jefferson
Imagine that...Brilliant may actually be able to 'shut down' the peer to peer network that was otherwise unstoppable!
What is to say that Brilliant won't install something to render a person's computer that is using Kazaa useless? What happens if Brilliant and Kazaa part ways and have ill feelings for one another?
Too many what ifs
I don't appreciate any company hiding their software under a different company's software just to access your computer. I guess that's why they call it spyware...do you think ZoneAlarm or a personal firewall can stop the Brilliant code from running without your consent? Unfortunately, if they do, that code is still present on your system.
I hate it when Netscape installs all that AOL junk (Yes, I know AOL bought Netscape, but it should ask if I want to install it).
2002-Apr-2 12:34 pm: ·
bear73 Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies Premium join:2001-06-09 Derry, NH
Re: Could they shut down Kazaa?
Unfortunately, the free Zonealarm does NOT stop any part of the KaZaa spyware(BDE, Cydoor, and anything else they hide in there)
One of the things that Brilliant could do--actually this is quite obvious--would be to rent out their network to the RIAA and their minions, to run a file-signature search on all .mp3's and other media formats on each client machine, using an algorithm and signature list that is automatically updated via the network. The software could also log and report all download activities related to such media files, and their sources.
That would be an acceptable use of computer time, per Brilliant's TOS. Nothing illegal about it.
The next step would be for the RIAA to summons a few tens of thousands of people into court to answer a civil suit for copyright infringement, with conclusive evidence of possession of unauthorized copies and downloading activity presented to the court.
Or, Brilliant could rent out time to a conservative family-values organization to identify individuals who have pornography on their machines, and/or connect to porn download sites. Then those individuals could receive a fundraising appeal, with the non-contributors having their names posted on the group's anti-pornography website. Maybe those who didn't contribute could have the next appeal sent on their behalf to the names in their Outlook address book.
Brilliant's really on to something here. Many possibilities to be explored, having the ability to put monitoring software in lots of computers.
JWilly, those are some pretty hairy scenarios you raise. Unfortunately, you're probably not far off the mark. I would not be surprised at all to see that's how this whole thing pans out. Perhaps the only reason Brilliant revealed their little trojan was to gauge the reaction of the digerati and also wait for the political climate when Congress/Senate makes it perfectly legal for the RIAA & Hollywood to do whatever they want to consumers, including planting trojans on home pcs and exploiting it to their advantage. In effect, rounding up anyone who has ever downloaded & installed a P2P for arrest & prosecution by the copyright police. The RIAA has certainly been busy little bees and a better name was never penned for their lapdog to do commit the deed(s). -- Can any of you seriously say the Bill of Rights could get through Congress today? It wouldn't even get out of committee. -F. Lee Bailey
2002-Apr-2 2:46 pm: ·
Doctor Four My other vehicle is a TARDIS Premium join:2000-09-05 Dallas, TX
By any other name, it's a Trojan Horse
Any program that takes partial or complete control of one's system without their full, informed, and clear consent, is by definition a Trojan Horse. That this BDE viewer could be used to do nearly anything it wants on one's system makes it as bad as VX2 and its variants. I recently downloaded KaZaa lite, but was reluctant to install it. Now I know why. That installer is going right into the recycle bin. -- "Kayura or Badamon, whichever you are, you should know that I will never give up this battle. By the will of the Ancient, I shall succeed!" - Shuten (Anubis) from the Ronin Warriors.
audiogalaxy was a top file share prog but it does come with spyware web hancer for 1 ,but even worse is the vx2.dll that installs with it . but you can get rid of both bits of spyware,web hancer with adaware which picks up the vx2.dll but cant delete the file. to do this shutdown and restart in dos mode, when the dos screen appears type del vx2.dll and then press enter then type win and press enter windows will restart and the vx2.dll file is gone thiswill only work in windows 95/98 and versions that have a pure dos environment
you can uninstall BD3 projector without uninstalling kazaa...its on the add/remove program list(yes...it is bd3, they must think they are leet or something)and the first time you run kazaa a security dialog comes up asking if you want to download and install it...hit no...
said by ThatsPrettyFunky:you can uninstall BD3 projector without uninstalling kazaa
Can you shed some insight into exactly what bd3 is & how it works before we all go performing removals en masse only to find out that it adversely affects any other P2P such as Grokster? -- Can any of you seriously say the Bill of Rights could get through Congress today? It wouldn't even get out of committee. -F. Lee Bailey
what are companies going to do about this issue? i am sure many workers sneak a little kazaa proggy on their work computers and think nothing of it. i know many large corporations don't give users any rights for anything but there are many medium size companies that don't have pc support people and are not so carefull.
be interested to hear from some it profesionals. [text was edited by author 2002-04-02 17:13:15]
Kazaa gives you a lot of programs for free that would cost a lot of money. Even thou peope know about the spy progs on there comp from kazaa they still use it. And plus half the people that say that Kazaa sucks have it and use it.
2002-Apr-3 7:31 pm: ·
Doctor Four My other vehicle is a TARDIS Premium join:2000-09-05 Dallas, TX
ZDNet Anchor Desk story on Brilliant & its plans
I found a story on ZDNet's Anchor Desk from a link at Cexx.org on the BDE spyware. It can be found here. David Coursey's (the editor) advice: "dump Kazaa and, in the process, send Brilliant packing." -- "Kayura or Badamon, whichever you are, you should know that I will never give up this battle. By the will of the Ancient, I shall succeed!" - Shuten (Anubis) from the Ronin Warriors.
I put alot of hours in as a network tech and don't always have time to keep up with this stuff. Is the latest version of morpheus loaded with this?, my ad aware, norton and firewall programs have not caught anything.
check out »www.antiy.net, Nice little windowss (ug!) util ghostbuster that does a number of things nicely, well almost. I'm still using the free version for another 7 days. One of the best features is that anytime any application tries to access any address on any port a warning is issued and you are given a chance to allow or not. Rules are fully configurable.
By the way adaware ROCKS!
the antiy util is a bit rough in terms of win 2k, a bit of display problems, can't get the full text/field in the window.
Found on ZDnet , search for spyware. quite a few downloads.
The only real problem i had with the antiy software was that is hosed Mcafee 4.51 engine. A quick re-install & all was fine, but there is still an alert (make me wonder about Mcafee sometimes).
Not sure if it will kill/detect p2p, but still a neat tool. Love knowing each application that tries to create a socket on anyport.