Supafly
Premium
join:2000-07-15
Elk Grove, CA
| Dammit, I liked XM too...
Can't we just all live in peace?
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BrianDamage
We Are The Hounds From Hell
Premium
join:2001-08-14
Rowlett, TX
clubs:
| Don't cater to more corporate cry-babies
Reading this article, my first thought was this:
If these guys (Sirius and XM)were so worried about this interference within this frequency band, then why didn't they choose to license some frequency band of their own?
They frequency in which they operate is an unlicensed frequency band, yet they wish the FCC to regulate the use of it in their favor. It's ridiculous. Your 2.4ghz cordless phone works in this range. Other companies, such as my present employer, deploy a product using this unlicensed frequency range.
What this argument amounts to is the same as someone wishing the FCC to dedicate a portion of or to regulate the use of a band within the CB (citizen's band) frequency range in order to favor one user over another, and it's ridiculous.
It would seem to me that Sirius and XM are the folks who need to overcome a technological problem in order to survive...802.11b and Wi-Fi technology existed before they deployed their product.
Also, my second thought was this:
They should be more concerned about their satellites falling out of the sky before their time.....I read an article not long ago talking about how these satellites (designed and built by Hughes, I believe), where deficient in manufacturing (admitted by the builders themselves) and that they were only going to last two years instead of 5-10.
Anyway, I think their effort to attempt regulation of an unlicensed band for their own benefit is ridiculous.
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korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:
|  Kind of defeats the purpose of "unlicensed spectrum," doesn't it, BrianDamage.
Excellent input.
Thx much! 
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mags2
Agent Provocateur
join:2001-07-19
SoCal
|  Catering to Corporate Crybabies
Well yunno, I can't say I'm suprised bc money does an awful lot of talking in Washington these days. Just ask Hollywood Hollings. Or Tauzin or Dingel for that matter. Hell, even our esteemed (and I use the word loosely) leader DUHbya. It's all about the money. Always has been. Always will be.
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If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. -T.J.
[text was edited by author 2002-04-08 10:53:53] |
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BrianDamage
We Are The Hounds From Hell
Premium
join:2001-08-14
Rowlett, TX
clubs: | reply to korym
Re: Don't cater to more corporate cry-babies
Thanks..... |
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BrianDamage
We Are The Hounds From Hell
Premium
join:2001-08-14
Rowlett, TX
clubs:
| reply to mags2
Re: Catering to Corporate Crybabies
Yeah, well, I choose to believe that we are NOT beyond making some sense in this country, eventually, concerning broadband and the various methods of dissemination, as well as sense in other areas of policy.
I would agree with you that mostly, politicians are in politics for the money.
However, I choose to believe that there still are some folks out there concerned more about the welfare of people more than how much money they can line their own pockets with.
Maybe I'm living in a dreamworld, but I hold out for the better......
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We've got our eye on the firmaments, our hand on the armaments, our heads full of arguments, and words for our monuments..... |
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drjim
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
Long Beach, CA
clubs:
| reply to BrianDamage
Re: Don't cater to more corporate cry-babies
The "deficiencies" in manufacturing only concern the amount of power the solar panels generate over their lifetime. The end-of-life power output is about 10% less then expected. This was way over-hyped in the news reports when it was announced, and will not impact the life of the satellite. I'd be more concerned with the orbits that Sirius choose. XM is in Geo-Sync, while Sirius uses an highly elliptical orbit, subjecting their spacecraft to greater environmental extremes. Of course, I consider the whole idea of "Satellite Radio" to be pretty lame, and a waste of frequency spectrum in the first place, so I may be a little biased! 
drjim
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One man's Magic is another man's Engineering. |
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dbarc
join:2000-01-22
Fort Wayne, IN
| reply to BrianDamage
said by BrianDamage:
Reading this article, my first thought was this:
If these guys (Sirius and XM)were so worried about this interference within this frequency band, then why didn't they choose to license some frequency band of their own?
They frequency in which they operate is an unlicensed frequency band, yet they wish the FCC to regulate the use of it in their favor.
....stuff left out....
Anyway, I think their effort to attempt regulation of an unlicensed band for their own benefit is ridiculous.
Actually, the satellite radio companies DO have licensed spectrum and do NOT use the unlicensed spectrum. However, they are pleading that excessive deployment of the unlicensed devices (and WiFi isn't the only thing on that band, they want restrictions/alterations on everything operating in it, from WiFi to your portable phones) will cause interference because their licensed bands are close to the unlicensed bands and spurious transmissions can cause interference. In come cases, that could be true... place the WiFi or other device right next to the antenna and it could happen. Then again, I think you'd be arrested going down the highway sitting on the outside of your car with a WiFi node in your hand. There was a pretty good refute of their 'problems' by an engineer that said they could solve a lot of their 'concerns' by simply making their antennas more direction; oriented upwards. It made sense. It seems they're just looking for the solution that's cheapest to them; in otherwords free to them without any changes, forcing the costs upon everyone else. (The original story I read pretty much said that any device in that unlicensed spectrum would have to be recalled and changed, no 'grandfathering' of devices. I can't see that happening. Half the companies that produced them would go bankrupt doing that, which means they couldn't change the device and none of them would be fixed. Kind of defeats the purpose of Sirius and XM, doesn't it??? Besides, I really don't see that service flying where it'll be a problem. How many devices are close enough to your CAR, which is the prime objective of the satellite radio companies, to cause interference.) |
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lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL | Solution
Increase the buffer between the bands by decreasing the satellite radio spectrum. That would solve their problem without affecting the wireless industry. |
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BrianDamage
We Are The Hounds From Hell
Premium
join:2001-08-14
Rowlett, TX
clubs:
| reply to dbarc
Re: Don't cater to more corporate cry-babies
Well, if I read the article right, the satellite companies are operating in or around 2400 mghz (or 2.4 ghz) and this is UNLICENSED spectrum.
Correct me if I am wrong concerning their operational spectrum, but I think I read it right.
If that's the case, then my argument is how they might expect to get the FCC to try to regulate UNLICENSED spectrum, with their favor skewing the regulation of the spectrum.
It seems like a selfish attempt by these companies to try to regulate spectrum that everyone has a right to use.
This is why you have everything from Wi-Fi to cordless phones operating in this spectrum.
Besides that, these companies may not even be able to stay solvent long enough to justify any of these moronic regulation attempts. They may not have enough money in the bank to bribe Mr. Powell either.
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We've got our eye on the firmaments, our hand on the armaments, our heads full of arguments, and words for our monuments..... |
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mags2
Agent Provocateur
join:2001-07-19
SoCal
| reply to BrianDamage
Re: Catering to Corporate Crybabies
said by BrianDamage:
Yeah, well, I choose to believe that we are NOT beyond making some sense in this country, eventually, concerning broadband and the various methods of dissemination...
I suppose some would call you an eternal optimist. Personally I don't see the so-called leadership in this country making sense anytime soon with regard to anything mostly because they're blinded by dollar signs. But that's just my opinion. Call me the eternal cynic.
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If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. -T.J. |
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BrianDamage
We Are The Hounds From Hell
Premium
join:2001-08-14
Rowlett, TX
clubs: | Your point is taken as sensible.
I'm just trying to keep my chin up |
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mags2
Agent Provocateur
join:2001-07-19
SoCal | Smoke 'em if you got 'em. |
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BrianDamage
We Are The Hounds From Hell
Premium
join:2001-08-14
Rowlett, TX
clubs: |  |
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drjim
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
Long Beach, CA
clubs:
| reply to BrianDamage
Re: Don't cater to more corporate cry-babies
"Well, if I read the article right, the satellite companies are operating in or around 2400 mghz (or 2.4 ghz) and this is UNLICENSED spectrum."
Not exactly....It's a SHARED band, and the people running unlicensed (Part 15) devices are required to do certain things, under certain circumstances. Example....I fire up my 15W 2.4GHz Amateur Radio transmitter, and knock your WLAN off-the-air. Gee, that's too bad for you. I have a license, and you don't. If your WLAN (or 2.4GHz telephone)interferes with my AO-40 satellite downlink, I can request that you turn it off, or not use it during certain hours. Of course, the chances of: 1)Finding you, and 2) Getting you to understand what Part 15 requires of you, are both exceedingly small, so you never hear of a Ham doing this. These guys, however, have some serious MONEY and LAWYERS to do their talking for them, and as such, can get the attention of the media, and more importantly, the FEDS. I recently read a design review of their system in one of my RF trade mags, and it's laughable. It's poorly designed, the silicon they use in the receivers is NOT ready for prime time, and their ultimate signal-to-noise ratio is something like 6dB....pretty poor. So, they p*ss and moan to their Congressman and stockholders, and try to get the rules changed to allow their system what amounts to an extraordinary level of protection from existing services.
I hope they fall on their a$$!
drjim
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One man's Magic is another man's Engineering. |
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djrobsd
join:2002-01-24
San Diego, CA
| They paid for their bandwidth
In this month's car and driver magazine, it talks all about Satellite Radio. The FCC auctioned off the frequencies, and Sirius and XM were the highest bidders.
Personally, if I was a company that spent billions of dollars launching satellites into space, I'd get pretty upset if the rules suddenly changed, and that airspace I paid for, as well as the satellites were no longer usable because of some wireless devices that people don't even have a license to operate..
Sorry, I have to side with the big companies on this one, even though I am all for the advancement of wireless internet, ethernet, etc.. |
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Rally1
join:2000-06-12
Irvine, CA |  aa
"The radio, about the size of a can of beer,"
who writes this stuff?? |
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Anon | Here is all you got to know about this subject:
How much money can the wireless networking companies pump
into Washington. How much money can Sirius and XM pump in?
What is the difference? |
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Murphdog856
join:2002-01-04
Cherry Hill, NJ
| Satellite V. WiFi
The major point is that the 802.11 devices should not be drifting so far off of frequency as to cause interference. Any radio transmitter can malfuntion at some point in it's life time but I feel a lot of the interference has to do with poor design and quality control of the personal devices that share the spectrum. I have an access point, two WiFi cards, A 2.4 Cordless phone, a portable Sony XM receiver, a mobile Pioneer XM receiver, and a microwave that probably leaks- All operating in the 2.4 GHZ spectrum without a problem. All deveices are well manufactured, not modified, and are well in the tolerance allowed. The XM receiver's haven't experienced any problems yet so I assume the receivers are well built to reject interference. I've seen different transmiters of all kinds with poor RF design that cause interfence. Although I do think that the possibility of interference potential should of been explored during the frequency planning. Just my two cents.... |
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Traal
join:2000-10-19
Mesa, AZ
 ·BroadVoice
| reply to Rally1
Re: aa
said by Rally1:
"The radio, about the size of a can of beer,"
who writes this stuff??
They can be identified by their Rorschach (inkblot) test results.
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/* The green code always compiles. */ |
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