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Comments on news posted 2002-05-16 09:11:48: We'd made mention of the fact that several new forms of CD copy protection were causing problems with PC's (such as crashing, or not playing at all). ..
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 careywb
join:2001-07-14
Chesapeake, VA | Hit 'em where it Hurts = how to stop this nonsense The way to stop this is to boycott new CD purchases. Just a few months of living without, and, bada bada, bing...end of copy protection. | |
| |  cprgoldsWoof WoofPremium
join:2000-12-22
Portland, OR |  Would It Really Do Any Good???
Having said that, I personally will not knowingly buy CD's with this copy protection just like I won't buy things from companies that litter my internet sessions with popups and popunders! | |
| | | careywb
join:2001-07-14
Chesapeake, VA | Re: Would It Really Do Any Good??? I hear ya....but, more and more people are running CDs in their computer these days. If dissatisfaction grows large enough, there could be an impact. I, personnaly, wouldn't rule this out...small waves CAN sometime turn into large swells. | |
| | | amoiseyevWent For Beer
join:2000-11-14
Worcester, MA | said by cprgolds:
small fraction of the buyers and SONY would probably never feel the impact.
I think that Sony will see the impact of their own actions: "protected CDs" will cause decrease in sales ( and increase in piracy ) for the few obvious reasons:
1. Computer users will not buy "protected CDs" because they are useless for them;
2. Some (small amount, but few) people will just boycott these CDs;
3. Some "advanced users" will buy the CD, make a copy for themselves and for sharing and return "corrupted cd" back to the store and get full refund;
4. Real pirates (who made unlicensed copies by thousands in Bulgaria and China) will get a virtually "competition-free" market, where nobody legally offer "real CD" with the same content;
5. A lot of customers who care about their money more than about copyright laws will prefer to buy pirated CD, copy it or download the music instead of buying perfectly legal disk that will not play in the car audio or portable cd-player.
I think with all these 5 Sony will have to admit than sales of these protected CDs are noticeable less than they would be without protection.
--
Alex
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. - Murphy's law | |
| | | | | I am doing my part. I don't buy CDs at all after the Napster court case. If the RIAA wants to play hard ball, and not give any options to use the music you paid for in any other media, the RIAA can fight the court case with out MY music money. | |
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| hightdan
join:2002-04-21
North Sioux City, SD | Re: Hit 'em where it Hurts = how to stop this nonsense I found this on www.sony.com
I think I will buy the CD and just start calling.
I don't own a CD player. Only have computers.
from www.sony.com
If you believe a Sony Music product has a manufacturing defect, please call our Quality Management Department at 800-255-7514 (609-722-8224 in New Jersey).
--
"These aren't the droids you are looking for" | |
| | | | said by careywb:
The way to stop this is to boycott new CD purchases. Just a few months of living without, and, bada bada, bing...end of copy protection.
I have found these so called copy-proof CD`s on Kazza and other file sharing networks and downloaded them!This just proves that the RIAA is losing the battle.All these copy protection schemes can be cracked,so to Hell with the RIAA! | |
| | | | | amoiseyevWent For Beer
join:2000-11-14
Worcester, MA | Re: Hit 'em where it Hurts = how to stop this nons said by djrobx:
...it reduces their numbers. By reducing the numbers, they can complain that piracy has slowed CD sales thus justifying the protection.
Well, they obviously have numbers for each title. I meant that sales of protected CDs will be noticeable less than sales of similar unprotected CDs, so company will realize that they steal from their own pocket.
said by djrobx:
In most stores you can't return opened software/audio, you can only exchange a defective disc.
That's true for "normal" CDs. If these protected pieces of ... do not play on some CONVENTIONAL players the number of exchanges will be so big that most of the stores executives will refund them rather than exchange them several times, to avoid extra losses. There is a big difference between one isolated corrupted copy and whole "corrupted title".
--
Alex
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. - Murphy's law | |
|
| jcnnghm
join:2001-08-29
Severna Park, MD | Any audio that can be played can be duped into digital form and distributed online. There just isn't a way around it. If worst came to worst, someone would just use an analog to digital converter and rip it into mp3. I guess the next solution is to make it so you can't "hear" the music either. Why would you want to do that anyway? | |
| | | | | Re: Hit 'em where it Hurts = how to stop this nons quote:
I guess the next solution is to make it so you can't "hear" the music either. Why would you want to do that anyway?
Absolutely! As a matter of fact, why don't we (record execs) make all music so that it falls in the 40 - 100 kHz band! Then, we can still sell CDs marketed as "avant-garde", since no-one will be able to hear them...ohhhh, how about a "white noise" CD? It's a whole new era! 
Peace
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If it's na' scottish...it's CRAP! | |
| | | | | | Re: Hit 'em where it Hurts = how to stop this nons said by methuselah1879:
.ohhhh, how about a "white noise" CD? It's a whole new era!
Hey, why not? It would sound a lot better than most of the crap they've been putting out lately. | |
| | | | | amoiseyevWent For Beer
join:2000-11-14
Worcester, MA | Re: Hit 'em where it Hurts = how to stop this nons said by TheWickerMan:
Hey, why not? It would sound a lot better than most of the crap they've been putting out lately.
Let's add that the last fact is the real reason why music sales go down....
--
Alex
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. - Murphy's law | |
| | | | | | | When Sony gets their way....
They'll sell blank Cds labelled "Not for any use" and still want $20. | |
| | | | | | | |  Re: Hit 'em where it Hurts = how to stop this nons
ROFL
LMFAO
That's funny as hell. | |
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| | | | | do i detect a pointy haired manager somewhere in our midst?  | |
| | | | | | | Re: Hit 'em where it Hurts = how to stop this nons quote:
do i detect a pointy haired manager somewhere in our midst?
nah! i just want to leverage our existing infrastructure, so that we might globalize our community-oriented assets and maximize the potential for cross-developmental utilization of the corporate paradigm....
Peace
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If it's na' scottish...it's CRAP! | |
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| | | Boycott it....download it and pass it on, buy extra CD-R's and give everyone you know a copy! People with a copy don't buy a copy! | |
| | | | |  YowzaaahOurs Go To Eleven
join:2000-12-14
DamnFlat, OH | Re: Don't just boycott CDs I've done just that. My whole audio rack (CD changer, Tuner, Tape player), TV and VCR are Sony. I was looking for a DVD player and was eyeing the Sonys.(I've received a bunch of DVDs as presents and my kids got a couple of Disney DVDs for their birthday).
Last week I went down to wallmart and bought a cheapy, made in China, Venturer DVD player with Dolby 5.1 surround system ($210 for the whole rig). The first thing I did, before even playing a test DVD is disable Macrovision and Region protection through a hidden menu. (Can't do that on a Sony product). I've made tapes of the Disney DVDs for the kids to watch/pull the tape out of while the "Master" DVD copy sits in the media cabinet above their reach.
Everybody's happy - except Sony which won't get another $ from me.
Now the only problem is the silver DVD player in a rack of black hardware.....Hmmmm, maybe spray paint. | |
| | | | |
 Nero534
join:2001-10-12
South Bend, IN | Pissed I dont own an I-MAC but if I EVER put a commerical cd in my PC and it destroyes my firmware, u can make for DAMN sure SONY or who every put the protection will be buying me a new computer. | |
| |  mags2Agent Provocateur
join:2001-07-19
SoCal
|  Re: Pissed
said by Nero534:
I dont own an I-MAC but if I EVER put a commerical cd in my PC and it destroyes my firmware, u can make for DAMN sure SONY or who every put the protection will be buying me a new computer.
Sounds like a plan but a few minor details you may want to consider: 1)who ya gonna call if/when that new CD crashes & burns your firmware? Just for kicks & chuckles why dontcha call Sony's 800# and determine how long you're on hold and how much of a run around theyre going to give you for any kind of service, not just calling to complain about a CD and demand the company purchase a new pc for you.
People spout off until it comes time to put action behind words and Sony knows that it can just blow off threats like yours. Anyone who has ever had to contact any company's customer service department can easily and without the slightest hesitation attest to that.
--
There is no such thing as P2P technology...there is no such thing as P2P...there is no such thing... -Hillary Rosen
[text was edited by author 2002-05-16 09:30:33] | |
| | | | | Re: Pissed It's probably a safe bet on my part you haven't run a large company successfully in your past?? If you think the prevailing thought among corporate execs is 'to hell with the little man', just look at the bombed out landscape of failed companies over the past 2 years. They did just that: forgot who their customers were. ANY company, no matter how large, is destined for failure if they forget who their customers are.... | |
| | | |  BrendanWarr Guitar is here
join:2000-07-14
Littleton, CO | Re: Pissed said by deltapi:
ANY company, no matter how large, is destined for failure if they forget who their customers are....
That isn't true at all. Look at Chrysler. They build mediocre to poor vehicles, and they're still in business. Why? The government bailed them out at taxpayer expense. Look at the RIAA, lobbying for taxpayer support to pay its legal fees. Look at the airline industry, crying to Uncle Sam because they might lose their shirts. If you're big enough, voluntary consumer dollars truely do not matter (or lack thereof, with boycotts). They will just *force* the consumer to keep them in business via government bailouts.
--
"People consider me a pessimist. I consider myself a realist."- me
*Pleased In Colorado* | |
| | | | | | | Re: Pissed Point taken.
Okay, so I forgot to exclude those eligible for gov't bailouts.....Sony isn't a candidate. You go home and kick your dog enough times and sooner or later he/she is going to fight back. They've already failed with their attempt at pay to play on the internet, now they try to copy protect their product. Nice try, we'll find a way around it, or won't buy Sony, easy enough. | |
| | | | | | | | Re: Pissed I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but I saw an article @ »www.newsforge.com about defeating the "copy protection" with a frickin' magic marker, and / or a strategically placed piece of electrical tape!
HA! i love it.
So lemme see, according to the DMCA, electrical tape and magic markers would become "circumvention devices"????? I hope i'm not speaking out of my ass here, like so many MPAA and RIAA schmucks.
Ohhhhhhhh, if that's true, how funny!
Peace
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If it's na' scottish...it's CRAP! | |
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| amoiseyevWent For Beer
join:2000-11-14
Worcester, MA | said by Nero534:
I dont own an I-MAC but if I EVER put a commerical cd in my PC and it destroyes my firmware, u can make for DAMN sure SONY or who every put the protection will be buying me a new computer.
Well, it's very uncertain. They wrote "will not work on computer" on the label and DID NOT put "CD-audio" logo on the disk, so you can't state that they sold you a CD.
The fact, that some 5.25" round piece of glass causes your computer to die doesn't mean that manufacturer of this piece is at fault.
It's more likely if you put metal cup in microwave oven to reheat something - microwave will blow out and nobody is at fault but you.
--
Alex
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. - Murphy's law | |
| | |  Armada1Heat Miser
join:2001-05-16
Chicago, IL | Re: Pissed said by amoiseyev:
Well, it's very uncertain. They wrote "will not work on computer" on the label and DID NOT put "CD-audio" logo on the disk, so you can't state that they sold you a CD.
Nope, courts follow the walks like a duck, and talks like a duck rule... If they sell it in the CD section, in a CD box, and marketed just like a CD, no fine print will get them off the hook. | |
| | | | amoiseyevWent For Beer
join:2000-11-14
Worcester, MA | Re: Pissed said by Armada1:
If they sell it in the CD section, in a CD box, and marketed just like a CD, no fine print will get them off the hook.
Yes, it looks like CD - that's all. They removed a logo, print a label and few articles mention that they always use words "disk" or "music disk" instead of "CD" or "audio CD" in their marketing materials. Sony and others already have a warning from Philips that they illegally use term "CD-audio" with protected CDs that do not met red-book-specs, so I'm sure Sony is prepared and noone can prove that they "market them as CDs".
If they are sold in CD-section, THAT may be a misrepresentation, but in this case it's a reseller fault. So, instead of a case "world vs. Sony" you'll get a case "John Doe vs. KMart" that will not hurt Sony.
--
Alex
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. - Murphy's law | |
| | | | | dbarc
join:2000-01-22
Fort Wayne, IN | Re: Pissed said by amoiseyev:
Yes, it looks like CD - that's all. They removed a logo, print a label and few articles mention that they always use words "disk" or "music disk" instead of "CD" or "audio CD" in their marketing materials. Sony and others already have a warning from Philips that they illegally use term "CD-audio" with protected CDs that do not met red-book-specs, so I'm sure Sony is prepared and noone can prove that they "market them as CDs".
If they are sold in CD-section, THAT may be a misrepresentation, but in this case it's a reseller fault. So, instead of a case "world vs. Sony" you'll get a case "John Doe vs. KMart" that will not hurt Sony.
...If they distribute them to CD markets and through the same channels, then it seems they would be hard pressed for them to dispute that aren't marketing them as CD's. Instead of attempting to boycott, which probably won't work, it might be interesting to follow the lead by Phillips that has already required the removal of the CD logo and the warning on using audio-CD. Possibly time to get the FTC involved? If it looks like a CD, marketed like a CD, packaged like a CD, but ISN"T a CD, IMHO (though IANAL), it seems there's a chance the FTC would find them using deceptive marketing practices, yes? If they couldn't market through the same distribution channels they use for their CD's, and needed a new structure, packaging, and distribution (to other than audio cd stores) it might have a lot better impact than attempting to boycott. If they HAD to package in some off sized, non-confusing packaging and couldn't be displayed with CD's (which wouldn't fit the display cases at that point anyway), the CD stores would have large costs setting up different display areas and purchasing new display cases, if they were permitted to sell through CD audio stores anyway. ???
... just an opinion. | |
| | | | | BrendanWarr Guitar is here
join:2000-07-14
Littleton, CO | If it doesn't carry the official "Compact Disc" label, it is not a CD, and should not be marketed as such. There should be a distinct section specifically for these pieces of garbage; separating them from REAL CD's.
--
"People consider me a pessimist. I consider myself a realist."- me
*Pleased In Colorado* | |
| | | | |  Rj
@aol.com | Simple sue in small claims court. they either will spend the money to defend, or lose. In if the former in will cost them a bunch of money if the latter wait 30 days after they have been notified then ask for a writ of execution. and get any SONY property in state & action off to pay claim. Ps it might actually work right.
To defend THEY would have to prove, that it wasn't a cd to each court. And that you should have known it. (warrant of merchantability)
Of course they would try to have them combined into a class action suit to save money but... | |
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| | |  GlobalMindDomino Dude, POWER Systems GuyPremium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL | Unfortunately Sony is following the "tough crap" rule.
If you tried to play it in a PC then obviously you are trying to pirate it, so to hell with you. They make no apologies for them crashing a PC. Their statements back up the claim that they simply don't care as they think they are fighting a "war" on piracy.
Now I ask, if they are all about the artist getting paid, and the presence of copy protection kills sales of a disc, and therefore their profits as well as the artist's cut, would they take notice?
K.
--
"i want everything to work. i choose iSeries." | |
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See 12 replies to this post | |
| | | | | >no fine print will get them off the hook.
That is gonna cost you a lot of money in lawyer fees to even find that out. Just spend your time RIPPING all the media you can get your hands on and sharing it on Kazaa.
The RIAA cann't buy guns (lawyers) if we don't give them drug money (Music money). | |
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| |  ChakthiGalactica Is BackPremium
join:2001-07-11
Dayton, OH | said by amoiseyev:
said by Nero534:
I dont own an I-MAC but if I EVER put a commerical cd in my PC and it destroyes my firmware, u can make for DAMN sure SONY or who every put the protection will be buying me a new computer.
Well, it's very uncertain. They wrote "will not work on computer" on the label and DID NOT put "CD-audio" logo on the disk, so you can't state that they sold you a CD.
The fact, that some 5.25" round piece of glass causes your computer to die doesn't mean that manufacturer of this piece is at fault.
It's more likely if you put metal cup in microwave oven to reheat something - microwave will blow out and nobody is at fault but you.
I think you went for one too many beers. LOL Sony made the 5.25" round piece of glass. They are at fault if it destroys people's property. Like a lot of other people these days, I only have a computer -- no stand-alone CD player. If I want to listen to Celine, it has to happen through the use of my computer's CD drive. My CD drive doesn't say anything about not playing Sony CDs in it, but my microwave does have a sticker stating that I shouldn't put metal objects in it. There's a difference...
As for the label "Will not work in computer," that makes no sense. When I play a CD in my computer, the CD player is going through the same motions as a stand-alone CD player. That is, unless Sony decides to target my computer with some kind of malicious code.
It seems like the music industry is trying to commit slow suicide. I will not buy a CD. I haven't for a year or more now. I bought a computer game yesterday though. The software industry is included in PTP networks, but they haven't stooped to the level of the music industry yet. When they do, or if they do, I'll stop buying software too. It's all about money. Without your money, they are nothing.
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It's only impossible until it's not... | |
| | | | amoiseyevWent For Beer
join:2000-11-14
Worcester, MA | Re: Pissed said by Chakthi:
I think you went for one too many beers.
Nope... Just opposite, I should go for couple more... brrp... sorry...
said by Chakthi:
As for the label "Will not work in computer," that makes no sense. When I play a CD in my computer, the CD player is going through the same motions as a stand-alone CD player. That is, unless Sony decides to target my computer with some kind of malicious code.
Well, you was warned that this thing is not supposed to play on computer and it shouldn't do it - so if you tried to do it anyway, because "the CD player is going through the same motions...", you did it at your own risk. Sony did not do anything bad to the computer - all you need to do is remove disk using paper clip. Some (rather old) CD-drives need this surgery if you put standard disk upside down or if disk is scratched too bad - there is nothing harmful for the computer. The fact that Apple covered "paper clip hole" by case to make design more stylish is Apple's mistake.
Thy to understand me right - I do not advocate Sony and I think all this thing smells really bad. But I'm trying to be unbiased - they did almost all right. They removed "CD-audio" logo since this disk doesn't met standards, they put a warning "not for computers", so user should be aware. They put a corrupted data track on disk to make it completely unreadable on CD-ROM, and "side effect" of this was the fact that you have to eject the disk manually. IT IS NOT HARMFUL ANYWAY. The case with iMac is most likely "honest mistake" and Sony will have to pay for this anyway, but from the formal point of view, they are right because they warned you.
My microwave do not have any stickers regarding metal objects on it and has only some warnings in the manual that average user does not read anyway - it doesn't change anything. Your CD-ROM/computer manual also has a statement that you should use only disks with certain logo on it. THAT disk doesn't have such a logo - what the hell were you reasons to insert this crap into cd-drive?
I think, if it's go to the court, it may be difficult to prove that Sony is responsible for any losses that could be caused by MISUSING of their product - there are a lot of points "for" and "against".
I think, that "buy and return" tactics may be much more effective than attempt to make Sony to pay for few iMacs that had to be open to pull the CD out.
--
Alex
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. - Murphy's law | |
| | | | | | | Re: Pissed quote:
My microwave do not have any stickers regarding metal objects on it and has only some warnings in the manual that average user does not read anyway - it doesn't change anything. Your CD-ROM/computer manual also has a statement that you should use only disks with certain logo on it. THAT disk doesn't have such a logo - what the hell were you reasons to insert this crap into cd-drive
I appreciate the fact that you are trying to be unbiased, and so I ask you this question: does the celine dion CD work in a regular, stereo CD-player? If so, then logically, and via the fact that I LEGALLY purchased this "non-cd cd", then my reasons for playing the CD in a computer CD player are ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT than my reasons for playing the "non-cd cd" in a REGULAR cd player.
Let's get it straight, what $ony is doing to the LEGAL consumer of their goods is immoral, unethical, and I think, illegal. I purchased the CD, I can play the CD in a regular player, why the hell can't I play it in a computer cd player if I so desire?
Peace
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If it's na' scottish...it's CRAP! | |
| | | | | | amoiseyevWent For Beer
join:2000-11-14
Worcester, MA | Re: Pissed said by methuselah1879:
...does the celine dion CD work in a regular, stereo CD-player?
In most cases. Dig reports - it doesn't play in most of the car CD-players and it doesn't work for sure in any player that is compatible with MP3-disks.
said by methuselah1879:
... then my reasons for playing the CD in a computer CD player are ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT than my reasons for playing the "non-cd cd" in a REGULAR cd player.
Right. Do you have any reasons for playing it anywhere? It is not an "audio CD", you shouldn't put it in any device that designed for audio CD. I.e. you shouldn't by it.
said by methuselah1879:
Let's get it straight, what $ony is doing to the LEGAL consumer of their goods is immoral, unethical, and I think, illegal.
It is immoral and unethical, right. I don't think it's illegal. They sell garbage that looks like CD, but is not a CD (and is marked as not CD) - what's wrong with it?
They sell CD for years that looks like they contain music - but it isn't music even close, but nobody cares. What's the difference? What's illegal? Think before you buy - or you deserve to be screwed.
--
Alex
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. - Murphy's law | |
| | | | | | | | | Re: Pissed quote:
Right. Do you have any reasons for playing it anywhere? It is not an "audio CD", you shouldn't put it in any device that designed for audio CD. I.e. you shouldn't by it.
Are you talking about a reason for playing a celine dion cd, or any CD in general put out by $ony record companies? If celine dion is your sole question, then no, I don't have any reason for listening to that tripe anywhere. However, I am talking more about general artist licensery. For example, let's say I'm a Tool fan (which I am), and $ony acquires the rights to all Tool material. Now let's suppose that Tool releases a new disk that kicks ass, and therefore I go to buy it. Now, upon the "presumably stupid" assumption that everything I have bought from Tool was on a CD, worked in ANY cd player (whether it have MP3 capability or not), I put this disk into my computer CD player, since I have no other form of audio device in my home.
Suppose the disk doesn't read, as a matter of fact, since I own a perfectly valid device that works perfectly FINE with any other "non-protected" media the machine locks up as a result of copy protection, causing either 1) a reboot, 2) a service visit (iMac), or 3) using the 'paper-clip' technique (which by the way, I have not had to use on any media except 1 back in about 1990). Who is liable for such flaw? Me, for being stupid, and not reading the oh-so-obvious packaging label? The artist, for signing a contract with a corrupt record agency? The agency for being irresponsible troglodytes? Who?
Now suppose it's you, except these are not cd's. These are little l337 h4x0r$ who want to 0wn j00. So what they do is write some asinine VB script, that upon insertion of perfectly valid CD media, causes: 1) your machine to hang, 2) causes you to utilize the 'paper-clip' method to extract the media, 3) causes you to send in your machine for a service visit (iMac).
In other words, what reasons I have for wanting to play a CD of AUDIO tracks in a CD player are no concern of yours. Moreover, if it looks like a CD, plays audio tracks (i'm assuming here, I don't think Celine is quite into the whole digital gaming experience thing yet), and will work in some cd players, but not others, then EXACTLY what kind of CD is it? What is $ony's definition of the Celine Dion CD? DATA? AUDIO? VIDEO? some new format? get my point?
quote:
They sell CD for years that looks like they contain music - but it isn't music even close, but nobody cares. What's the difference? What's illegal? Think before you buy - or you deserve to be screwed.
The difference between buying something that sucks because of the content, and buying something that is ambiguously labeled at best, and purposely designed to confuse, which happens to frag my or anyone else's hardware AS AN INTENDED DESIGN GOAL! are two entirely different things. In the first case, I agree with you: if the content sucks, then you do deserve to be screwed; on the second case -- NO! i do not deserve to get screwed because I bought an artist's album whom I happen to enjoy listening to, and because some retarded suit thinks that CD / MP3 players are "bad" I don't get to listen to it? That is tripe.
Enough...
Peace
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If it's na' scottish...it's CRAP! | |
| | | | | | | | amoiseyevWent For Beer
join:2000-11-14
Worcester, MA | Re: Pissed said by methuselah1879:
quote:
Right. Do you have any reasons for playing it anywhere? It is not an "audio CD", you shouldn't put it in any device that designed for audio CD. I.e. you shouldn't by it.
Are you talking about a reason for playing a celine dion cd, or any CD in general put out by $ony record companies?
I meant that since it is not labeled as "Audio CD" user shouldn't expect that it must play in a device that designed for playing audio-CD. And you got it, since you're asking:
said by methuselah1879:
. Moreover, if it looks like a CD, plays audio tracks ...then EXACTLY what kind of CD is it? What is $ony's definition of the Celine Dion CD? DATA? AUDIO? VIDEO? some new format? get my point?
Well, as we all know, there are many CD-like media with music on them, like SACD, DVD-audio, or mp3 disks. This is just one more: "Sony-copy-protected-mixed-mode CD". There is no definition yet since this format itself is in "work in progress" stage (hope it will never successfully finished).
That was exactly my point - it is NOT an audio-CD,it's some not-standard disk with musical content, nothing more. The fact, that it "looks like CD" doesn't make it any closer to the real (i.e. standard) CD.
Assumption that all that "looks like CD" and contains music should play in audio-CD player is wrong. To prevent further question: it became wrong on the day when first non-standard disk was produced. Since companies misrepresent their products to make customers think that they buy CDs, customers have to be more careful buying things,
mean read fine prints, etc.
--
Alex
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. - Murphy's law | |
|
| | | Here's a way to solve that problem entirely. Absolutely, positively, without fail, REFUSE to purchase any of their products. Not only that, write an editorial, contact the States AG, the BBB, anyone who'll listen.
Personally, I say F*** YOU SONY! This just ensures that I will never buy one of their products ever again. As a matter of fact, I can't remember the last time i even wanted to buy, and / or listen to a CD, what with the tripe they're putting out now.
Also, if enough people have that CD frag their firmware, I would be really amused to see a class-action brought to bear on $ony for replacement pcs...
Piss on them...and their electronics too. 
Peace
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If it's na' scottish...it's CRAP! | |
| | |  JigsawStardust We ArePremium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH | Re: Pissed said by methuselah1879:
Here's a way to solve that problem entirely. Absolutely, positively, without fail, REFUSE to purchase any of their products. Not only that, write an editorial, contact the States AG, the BBB, anyone who'll listen.
Personally, I say F*** YOU SONY! This just ensures that I will never buy one of their products ever again. As a matter of fact, I can't remember the last time i even wanted to buy, and / or listen to a CD, what with the tripe they're putting out now.
Also, if enough people have that CD frag their firmware, I would be really amused to see a class-action brought to bear on $ony for replacement pcs...
Piss on them...and their electronics too.
Peace
The sad thing is There will always be someone buying it.People are sheep most of the time and the corps know it and they just herd them around.Its sad to say the least and they prey on younger people(MTV)To get there bottom line.They know Mommy or Daddy will buy them(insert stupid boy/Girl act here)For them. | |
| | | | Nero534
join:2001-10-12
South Bend, IN | Re: Pissed Well in my opinion if something causes my computer crash and they willing know it is there to make it crash, I would classify it as a virus. Which is illiegal (sp?) | |
| | | |  morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | said by Jigsaw:
The sad thing is There will always be someone buying it.People are sheep most of the time and the corps know it and they just herd them around.Its sad to say the least and they prey on younger people(MTV)To get there bottom line.They know Mommy or Daddy will buy them(insert stupid boy/Girl act here)For them.
i think we should start an webpage that lists all the cds with copy protection so that the average consumer will be aware. or a weekly/monthly mailing list that just sends out this list.
personally, if i get a copy of "the list" i will stand outside music stores handing a BEWARE warning to potential customers.
i have never been so outraged. i have a cd i received as a gift that i can't even play!
--
If we continue to ignore the Palestinian plight and instead reinforce the idea that Israel can do no wrong, then we should not be surprised when an event similar to Sept 11 occurs again in this country. | |
| | | | | ChakthiGalactica Is BackPremium
join:2001-07-11
Dayton, OH | Re: Pissed I just have to compliment you on your tagline. Excellent!
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It's only impossible until it's not... | |
|
| | | quote:
Unfortunately Sony is following the "tough crap" rule.
If you tried to play it in a PC then obviously you are trying to pirate it, so to hell with you. They make no apologies for them crashing a PC. Their statements back up the claim that they simply don't care as they think they are fighting a "war" on piracy
And i suggest that we retaliate with the "tough crap" consumer rule. What we should do is refuse to support -- financially, morally, etc -- anything that $ony sells, produces, has a hand in, contributes to, donates to, markets, steals, you get my drift. And that means anything! Now this would involve actually using your consumer brain, and doing some research before you go out and impulsively buy that fancy-schmancy stereo receiver, or that very nifty laptop with the little camera built into it. I realize that for today's modern american, using the brains for something other than a filtration device for the pabulum and sputum that comes streaming in from the "idiot box" is quite a hassle, but bear with it.
The ONLY way we as consumers can put an end to this tripe is to let these corporate monoliths know that we're not going to stand for their overt tactics at screwing us out of our hard earned money; and the only way to do that? DON'T BUY ANYTHING THEY MAKE! Buying a WEGA TV and then bitching about a copy-protection scheme built into it is a bit retarded, don't you think?
Moreover, who the hell listens to Celine Dion anyway?!?!?!
Peace - and $ony, M$, etc - go screw yourselves, you won't get my dollars!
Peace again
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If it's na' scottish...it's CRAP! | |
| |
| I agree wholeheartedly. A boycott won't, in reality, work, simply because we, as americans have become nothing more than mindless cattle, willing to be lead by the corporate megoliths and do their bidding. Well, I for one, am sick and tired of their bully tactics, their disregard for ethics and their "supposed" customers. My child can whine all he wants about the latest and greatest PS game, etc, but he isn't going to get it.
As a matter of fact, I think I'll go home, kill my tv, dispose of all that mind-numbing garbage, non-creative tripe, and either send the kid outside to play, or play with him on the computer -- teaching him how to use his brain, and not his wallet. At least with a computer, I am able to refute and contribute on a creative, semi-literate level with others, exercise my brain, and not be fed mindless drivel by the corporate masses (i.e. cretins).
Peace
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If it's na' scottish...it's CRAP!
[text was edited by author 2002-05-16 11:59:00] | |
| |  alex4lifeAlex4lifePremium
join:2001-06-22
Delta, BC | I am sooo not going to buy ANY Sony products again! I was looking in to buying a camcorder, and I saw a Sony one that looked good, but now I'll go out of my way to avoid buying from them.
Screwing up a computer is plain wrong. Not everyone puts a CD into a computer to copy it. Nowadays you can get a good sound card and good speakers for your computer, and many people use it as their main music listening place. Restricting them from using CD's will just make them angry and cause them to stop buying CD's. Causing the computer to not function is insanity, and like someone else stated, that activity is much like a virus. People should get together and sue Sony over this crap.
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"Nothing fits better than a dead man's shirt" -Jimmy James | |
| | |
 RoundboyPremium
join:2000-10-04
Drexel Hill, PA | This is funny I always hear commercials for the Sony cd player that makes 'one button' copies of cd's for your music...
Sony wants piracy stopped, but they sell you even easier methods of copying?
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»cliftonclassic.winocrossing.com
R.I.P Invader Zim | |
| | amoiseyevWent For Beer
join:2000-11-14
Worcester, MA | Re: This is funny said by Roundboy:
Sony wants piracy stopped, but they sell you even easier methods of copying?
Sony wants money... Looks nice - they sell you a CD copier twice more expensive than normal player and they are not going to sell you CDs that you can copy on it - what a way to do business...
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Alex
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. - Murphy's law | |
| | | | what i think would be incredibly funny is if that CD didn't work in $ony's OWN CD burner! hahahahaha! Would anyone having that pos Celine cd and a $ony burner like to try it out?
Peace
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If it's na' scottish...it's CRAP! | |
|
 cdgreerHoosiers
join:2002-01-03
Columbus, IN | Here's the bottom line... | |
| | amoiseyevWent For Beer
join:2000-11-14
Worcester, MA | Re: Here's the bottom line... said by cdgreer:
If I put a cd in my pc and it does physical damage to my machine...that is no different than someone creating a virus that does destructive damage. That my friends.... is Illegal.
Only if it was done intentionally. If it's just compatibility problem....
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Alex
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. - Murphy's law | |
| | | cdgreerHoosiers
join:2002-01-03
Columbus, IN | Re: Here's the bottom line... Exactly my point.... if it was done intentionally... that's illegal. | |
| | | | amoiseyevWent For Beer
join:2000-11-14
Worcester, MA
| Re: Here's the bottom line... said by cdgreer:
if it was done intentionally...
I don't think so... All they do is to force CD-reader firmware to go in infinite loop, so you have to use "paper clip hole" to eject the CD. The only problem that iMAc doesn't have this hole so you have to open the box to remove the CD.I doubt it can be classified as "intentional damage".
[text was edited by author 2002-05-16 10:24:01] | |
| | | | | cdgreerHoosiers
join:2002-01-03
Columbus, IN |  Re: Here's the bottom line...
| |
| | | | | | alalperPremium
join:2000-08-20
Philadelphia, PA | Re: Here's the bottom line... said by cdgreer:
If they don't specifically tell you that it will do that to your machine, then I think it can be considered tampering...they don't have any legal right to cause your machine to function in a way that could cause you expense. It's still wrong and no one will change my mind on that..
I think a court of law would more likely consider their failure to properly test the ramifications of their actions to be RECKLESS DISREGARD (not tampering) and, no matter what their warranty or terms of use says, still hold them liable.
Just my opinion.
Al | |
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| | Playing Celine Dion trashes your machine?
Paul | |
| |  AkumalDaveLife's A BeachPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-20
Minneapolis, MN | I was waiting for the punch line! Yeah, and playing Celine makes all the dogs in the neighborhood howl, too...
Interesting choice of artist to use for their test case. Like lots of folks actually WANT to copy her CD's?
Dave | |
| | | | | Re: I was waiting for the punch line! Anyone who actually listens to Celine Dion's crow like voice much less put that crap on their PC deserves have their machines crash. | |
|
|  hookem9
join:2000-12-19
San Francisco, CA | Re: Playing Celine Dion trashes your machine? amen brother | |
| | | | just the thought of it in my pc makes me sick.
wonder if i have a case against sony because her voice destroys my speakers class action lawsuit baby hehe.
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I too was a attbi hater but now with this new service my connection is to slow to complain ... | |
| | GRR
join:2001-08-19
Schenectady, NY Reviews:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| This is not anti-piracy- this Sony being a good corporate neighbor. I don't think it goes far enough- why does it only crash your PC? If you are trying to listen to Celine Dion, it should crash your home, car and personal CD players as well.
As you shell out 2 grand for a new PC or stereo system, just pause and give thanks it's not for a lobotomy. | |
|
 DaveDudeNo Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1 | Return them Everyone just needs to return them, stating they dont play in an audio player, because a pc is an audio player. MASS returns mean MASS loss.
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oooookay......... | |
| |
See 13 replies to this post | |
| | DaveDudeNo Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1 | Re: This is what you do... All we need is software smart enough to add track breaks and we are set,full copy automation, gee i guess those smart execs solved the copyright problem.
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oooookay......... | |
| |
| Don't even bother with taping it. Many home cd players these days have S/PDIF outputs that would plug nicely into some better quality sounds cards. I've got a Sony (how ironic eh?) home deck with S/PDIF outputs that I could plug into my Layla sound card (used for my home studio). Just hit play on the deck and record on the pc and guess what. CD quality sound that never left the digital realm. No sound quality loss that 99% of the listeners could ever possibly detect. Could it be any easier? Maybe if you didn't have that kind of setup but there are tons of other people out there like me with similar capabilities that are more than willing to share.
[text was edited by author 2002-05-16 22:38:26] | |
| | |  BellBoySteven Paul Jobs 1955-2011Premium
join:2001-02-20
Los Angeles, CA | Re: This is what you do... That's a great idea and I thought of that, however I thought I'd mention a lower tech version for our more technologically-challenged readers...
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I'm not an ASI tech, but I play one on TV... | |
|
| | Copy protection is just a small push to help P2P. This here is solely my opinion on this subject. In all realty copy protection is worthless but to help out P2P file networks grow.
First of all for the CD to have any market value must be listen able on a regular CD player. Any user with a 7th grade computer IQ knows they can load the music in via the line-in of their sound card. With a inexpensive setup of a few cables you can have a better than mp3 duplication. So all they have really done is reduce the recording speed from 8x down to 1x recording speed.
Most users have CD recorders and can create a standard CD if they need it. For users who barely know how to turn on their computers they'll be pushed to load and learn P2P software like Kazza.
In the end we are seeing the exact same thing as when the double tape deck machines first came out. Some people (mainly those from the lower income brackets) will make copies of music (most will still buy a tape/CD they really love).
The Ridiculous Recording Industry of America will claim this is a humanitarian tragedy that has never happened before and needs immediate political action. Improvements in technology are improving the standard of living for the low to middle income through an increase in the flow of information between individuals. The incumbent economic institution will try to halt rather than adapt to changes in technology because preserving the status quo however unlikely is the safest "pipe dream"...
I really don't see copy protection phasing much of anyone save for a little longer to record a CD.
Just my opinion.. WhiteShepherd | |
| | | | Re: Copy protection is just a small push to help P2P. I dont' want to sound rude but i really don't believe income has anything to do with it. I make quit a bit of money and I can surely afford to buy as many CD's as I want but I still insist on copying my friends' cds for me, them and other friends just for the freakin fun of it!!! It's only for backup purposes anyway . | |
|
 slimPremium
join:2001-02-13
Cambridge, MA | Interesting story from The Register on this topic I think this story is hilarious. It tells how this copy protection can be beat by either:
A felt tip pen ot a post-it note
»www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/25274.html
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Qui custodiet ipsos custodes? | |
| | | | Re: Interesting story from The Register on this topic What about if some 35-year old housewife wants the new Celine CD, but has no idea about this being a "non-audio" CD. She also has an iMac and wants to listen to while she's using her iMac. Then *POOF* her iMac is dead and the husband is confused. How good is Apple's tech support? Would they believe something has stupid as a copy proofed CD disabled their computer, which took a few months to pay off... | |
| |  joakoPremium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
kudos:5
 ·Comcast
| Sec. 1201. - Circumvention of copyright protection systems
No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title
I am violating the DMCA and am damn proud of it (yes, links are illegal):
»www.chip.de/praxis_wissen/praxis···919.html | |
| | | DaveDudeNo Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1 | Re: Interesting story from The Register on this topic I think so dumb laws need to be broken, obviously it does not reflect on the law abiding consumer, it punishes everyone equally.
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Boycott Celine, take them back, demand refund. | |
|
 tower29Premium
join:2002-02-12
Loveland, CO | LOCKS ONLY KEEP HONEST PEOPLE OUT!!!! Need I say more. Let's just be realistic.....That's all!!! | |
| type6
join:2002-02-20
Toms River, NJ | This is the stuff you look back and make fun of From what I read... on the outer track of the cd they put corrupted data. Rhudementary(sorry I can't spell) ideas of "protection" like that are an insult to the computer science field. It's like using a baseball bat to open a soda can. Yea it gets the job done, but now look at the mess.
Can I think of a better idea? Yes, take the half-assed protection off the cds all together. Accept the fact a much needed change in the music industry is finaly happening. Removing versatility (ability to play music cds on your pc) is a very very wrong move when your at war with versatility itself (technology). Finaly, know your "enemy". The enemy isnt pirates, its technology itself. Fighting the advancement of technology is like pissing in the ocean. It just gets washed away. | |
| | | They will always lose As long as a cd can be played in a cd player it is not copy protected. When sony realizes this I'm sure they will make cds that will only play in sony cd players that have built in speakers and no audio jacks on it.
lol | |
|  PyrionLiquid Metal Nanomorph
join:2001-12-01
Poway, CA
kudos:1 | Ya know, it's funny...
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Computer science is like sewer repair -- It pays so well because nobody wants to do it. | |
| | | | Re: Ya know, it's funny... I wouldn't be surprised, conspiracy theorist that i am, if Big Bill, the US govt (present administration), MPAA, RIAA, and everyone else, is all covertly in bed with one another, tickling the fancy of each other to eventually turn us into spineless, whimpering bowls of limp jello -- oh wait, we're already there aren't we?
Peace
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If it's na' scottish...it's CRAP! | |
|
DaveDudeNo Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·Vonage
·ViaTalk
| Express Warrenty One thing i totally forgot from Business Law in College, Express warranty a product must perform as stated. So a Music CD, must play in a music cd player. So basicly these disk are breaking the law. As they dont perform as stated by packaging.
RETURN CELIN!
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Boycott Celine, take them back, demand refund.
[text was edited by author 2002-05-17 11:59:33] | |
| | | | Re: Express Warrenty ah ha! but isn't the problem with that statement (although I entirely agree with what the content on that CD should be called (i.e. audio, or, if it's celine -- lack thereof)), doesn't the label preclude it from being defined as such (i.e. no CD audio label, therefore not an audio CD -- therefore no laws apply)
Just curious.
Peace
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If it's na' scottish...it's CRAP! | |
|
 sydney078$From Beneath You, It Devours
join:2001-06-10
Hurley, SD | Jellys Music There is this record store called "Jellys" I love that place. You can buy any CD there for 10.00-13.00 new, used is anywhere from 5.00-9.00. They will allow you 3-5 days to burn the CD(they state this on their radio and tv ads, and have it posted in the store) and you can return it and get all but 3.00 back. Isnt that great! I love that place
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We're The Osbournes | |
| | | | Re: Jellys Music what's the url for jellys? | |
| | sydney078$From Beneath You, It Devours
join:2001-06-10
Hurley, SD | Not sure if they have a website- It is known as Jellys or Cheapo Music and it is in Honolulu
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We're The Osbournes | |
|
 AD7BKPremium
join:2000-03-23
Havre, MT
·3Rivers Communic..
| Sony at it again to gouge us and fill ther pockets You stick these things into your computer the thing probaly won't even play they say "Well you stuck it in your computer, you were pirating" "But I wasn't that is all I have to play music cds" "Yeah right that is what they all say officer arrest him for copyright infringement" "But but" "You and I are going downtown where your going to prison pirater" and all the person was doing was tring play the cd.. that he/she legaly bought. And Sony will say "Yeaaa one less loser err I mean pirate off the streets wait we lost a customer.. Wait oh well this is a *War on piracy* We are doing what the RIAA wants to save their profits and increasing ours!"
Scuse me SONY get yer heads out of your butts and realize your doing nothing but pissing the customers off but limiting the use of your product. I personally want to be able to play LEAGALLY BOUGHT JAPANESE PS2 GAMES but no you have to region the PS2 and prevent mod chip makers saying it is all for "Piracy" WTF is your major malfunction Sony? Just beacuse there are piraters out there, what about us LEGIT PEOPLE? You screw us over... Um Piracy happens because people a)Greedy (piraters) B) Selfish and cheap (the one who buys from the piraters). Now your conturbuting to piracy by forcing people to buy a cracked version of the disk so they can HEAR IT! Gosh Sony, wake up and smell your company bankrupting.
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The following statement is true...The Proceeding statement was false!!--George Carlin | |
| | |  What Comes Around Goes Around
| |
| | | CD?? What's a CD??? | |
| N2DEEP
join:2000-08-26
Malvern, AR | Just Do This!!!!
I suggest using file trading programs, i.e. Audio Galaxy, WinMX, etc.. The problem that the RIAA has is that before we had to trade analog music, whether taped or dubbed, of a lesser quality. Now with the advent of quality technology we can share digital audio. In theory dubbing from my radio to a cassette and dubbing from my satellite to cd is the same thing.
In this age artists make more money than they need, or should receive, IMHO. They don't need 10 Million dollar houses and 10 cars, just because they can still screw you out of 18 bucks for their CD. If prices on CD's went down to $5-8 dollars this would not be an issue, but since the RIAA continues with its "price fixing", then we as consumers have no other option besides paying or trading. This will never be fixed in the short run, this argument will go on for decades.
RIAA shut down Napster, now look there have more P2P programs out than ever before. They will not shut them all down, they are still fighting with Napster and they are DEAD.
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Gary N2, DPC DRS White, ver 1.28, 990 freq, Win ME (WinXP is the Devil) | |
| | | My Computer IS My Stereo Hello, people. My computer IS my stereo. I listen to ALL my music on it, from my legitimate CDs to my MP3s. Hell, I've even got WMA files. My 500W 5.1 Digital Surround setup beats the sh*t out of any stupid home stereo or car stereo. My Audigy brings out incredible crispness and clarity to music, that I have never to this day found on any other kind of audio setup.
If I put a CD into my computer and it destroyed it or parts of it, I'd be so pissed off. Like, what is the difference between how a computer CD-drive plays a music CD and a stereo disc machine? Not much, other than one spins faster than the other. I don't even have a CD-player or discman to tell you the honest truth. My burner does everything for me. | |
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