 | | white collar crime in a blue collar town what a waste of taxpayers money.
i just moved from toledo and was a buckeye cable user for about 2 years. the story isnt surprising to me at all. buckeye has a big presence in that city. between them and the blade (local newspaper) i'm not sure who calls the shots.
got to love their cable ads, too. "you dont want to buy a satellite dish--you cant hook up multiple tv's without spending big bucks for more receivers. buy our digital cable instead--you get the same great functionality of music cannels, big selection of channels and ability to order movies." of course they dont tell you that you need to rent a ditial cable converter unit for every tv that you want to hook up... | |
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 |  dogtechLet Us Build It
join:2002-06-08
Toledo, OH | Re: white collar crime in a blue collar town said by sig606:
what a waste of taxpayers money.
i just moved from toledo and was a buckeye cable user for about 2 years. the story isnt surprising to me at all. buckeye has a big presence in that city. between them and the blade (local newspaper) i'm not sure who calls the shots.
got to love their cable ads, too. "you dont want to buy a satellite dish--you cant hook up multiple tv's without spending big bucks for more receivers. buy our digital cable instead--you get the same great functionality of music cannels, big selection of channels and ability to order movies." of course they dont tell you that you need to rent a ditial cable converter unit for every tv that you want to hook up...
I here you, I work in Toledo and Buckeye Cable and the Blade are a JOKE!! I wouldn't believe anything that is printed in the Blade about Buckeye Cable, both companies are owned by The Block family. | |
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| | | | Re: white collar crime in a blue collar town Didn't Buckeye pull some stupid stunt a while back? I seem to recall hearing about them on DSLR (or BR) before.
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| | |  roamer1sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA | Re: white collar crime in a blue collar town said by SRFireside:
Didn't Buckeye pull some stupid stunt a while back? I seem to recall hearing about them on DSLR (or BR) before.
This isn't the first I've heard about Buckeye and uncappers -- it was either here or on /. ...
-SC
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| | |  dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | said by SRFireside:
Didn't Buckeye pull some stupid stunt a while back? I seem to recall hearing about them on DSLR (or BR) before.
it was on here a few months ago. musta been a slow news day to have to rehash old news. *yawn* | |
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| | Will the records be sealed? We may never know what the crime really was. Wouldn't it be a violation of federal law to release the details of what they did. This would tell other people how to do it.
So they may seal all of the court records. LOck them up for a crime so evil no one can even discuss wat it is. Scary. | |
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 sea93
join:2001-11-01
River Grove, IL | Maybe Interstate laws or something Does this involve the Feds because it's some kind of inter-state commerce or communications thing? | |
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nl4jy
join:2002-05-02
Brooklyn, NY | Probably doing it as a business I think we're all missing the point here. They're probably conducting a business modifying these boxes and selling them for a big profit. Imagine an average joe have xx amount of speed, and pays a one time fee of $200 to have his modem modified and now have a speed of xxxx. Not only will this hurt the network, but they're hiding money from the IRS. | |
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| | | Re: Probably doing it as a business Probably? What proof have been unearthed to support that claim? I doubt that's the case here. If it were somebody would have said it or at least announced their suspicions. Nope... this is just the abuse of the law for something as stupid as uncapping bandwidth.
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| dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | the modems themselves arent modified. its simply the config file thats sent from the cable company's tftp server. the file is modified and put on another server and settings are modified to grab from that server instead of the cable company's tftp server. most large isps have instituted changes to thwart uncapping. e.g. MD5, tftp-enforce, timestamp etc... | |
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|  marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | It wouldn't work well as a business. Uncapping is a multistep process that can require a lot of troubleshooting and sometimes some precise timing. It must be repeated every time the modem reconnects to the network as well.
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| Just dis-connect Why didn't the ISP just un-plug the guy as soon as they found out?
Did they let things ride for a while to build up a *large* dollar amount for prosecution?
Were they just too stupid to notice that they were hacked?
The story just sounds too fishy. | |
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dogtechLet Us Build It
join:2002-06-08
Toledo, OH
| Buckeye Cable is a Joke!! The newspaper company that wrote this article (The Blade) also owns Buckeye Cable. Buckeye Cable and the The Blade try to run Toledo like they own it, well they practically do. You will never here anything bad said in the Blade about Buckeye Cable, they have a monopoly in Toledo, OH and their prices show that. Their cable modems are capped at 1000/128.
[text was edited by author 2002-11-01 18:50:57] | |
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| | | Re: Buckeye Cable is a Joke!! Yes this is true at this time, but however the man who owned buckeye and the blade "John Black" has died. yes he is dead. and his kids dont want either company. so I think they both will be going thier seperate ways soon enough. after court and the will reading. and such. then the kids who ever gets what will sell the companies off. I just hope that timewarner doesnt buy buckeye, They suck, really bad. and I know that if they did service would be worse.
-L_P | |
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|  Spike401Fox Powered
join:2002-04-27
Labrador | Worse? Youd certainly get more then 1000/128.
And you wont have to worry about feds and shit busting yer door down for violating yer TOS, they actually know how to give warnings before termination. 
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| | | You're right about buckeye-cable. Our cable here in Sandusky is owned by Buckeye Cable out of Todedo. Our buckeye-express sucks too only more so. The modem connects through dial up rated at 32k .. we have the 1MB down through cable. I'm lucky to get 500k down, sometimes can't even get connected. At busy times I may as well forget about trying to go anywhere on the net if I am connected. It is slow and antiquated here.
Maybe the guys who uncapped the bandwidth wouldn't have done it if we had some good speed. 3MB or better sounds pretty good to me right now. Fiber optics sounds better yet. Until something better comes along I guess I will be stuck using buckeye-depress. | |
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| | | Heck no, Time warner is worse then that,
I have seen them your lucky to even get 500Kb down and 90Kb up, they have very poor service, and Comcast is bad too. with my buckeye I never get less then 1.5Mb down and 128Kb up.
Lord_Power | |
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| | | | Re: Buckeye Cable is a Joke!! Ok Lord Power, would you mind coming out of anonymous mode and posting a few of your speed tests? Its not too tough to get 1.5mb burstable, however, lets see some 1.5 sustainables on that buckeye connection. | |
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| | | Re: This is scary... hmm i dunno, how is this any different than more traditional cable theft like using TV descramblers. seems to me that paying for a service and then taking more than you pay for is just plain theft.
sure, simply cutting these guys service off would have have probably been sufficient, but frankly it is their right to prosecute for theft if it did occur. heck if they were on my node and ruining my speeds i would probably be glad they threw the book at em  | |
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| |  CPN
join:2002-05-31
Westerville, OH | Re: This is scary... Personally, I do agree with you... they were harming their fellow subs. Theft is a well defined law with varying degrees, each with its penalties. My interest is not in whether the intention of theft was there or not, obviously it was. My worry is, did the MSO knowingly let them continue to theive with the intention of building a more significant case? If so, wouldn't that be entrapment (as defined by previous statutes) or is that the right of the victim (to determine when a law is broken sufficiently?). If prosecuted as soon as they were aware of the infraction, then I would feel much better (although this would obviously leave something to bedesired from thei internal IT dept). Just my 2KBs...
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| | |  JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | Re: This is scary... CATV theft of service laws can't be used in this case. | |
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| | | | CPN
join:2002-05-31
Westerville, OH | Re: This is scary... I suspect you are probably right... If you can, will you direct some of us to a hyperlink that may clarify that aspect? Would be appreciated.
I do believe the cable company would be able to show a loss of revenue, due to malicious actions on these fellows part. Thus a civil suit would be legit, based on the theft of money (regardless of how it was done).
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| | | | | JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | Re: This is scary... said by CPN:
I suspect you are probably right... If you can, will you direct some of us to a hyperlink that may clarify that aspect? Would be appreciated.
I do believe the cable company would be able to show a loss of revenue, due to malicious actions on these fellows part. Thus a civil suit would be legit, based on the theft of money (regardless of how it was done).
I have no hard link on the net somewhere to show that, but I have talked to the person in charge of my city's cable franchise board, and she has reiterated many times that cable internet service is un-regulated and isn't covered by CATV laws. In fact, she said that in the case of att, att was illegally collecting franchise fees for cable internet services when they weren't supposed to. Apparently there was a bit stink about why they were charging fees in the internet service and where those fees were going because it wasn't going to the cities. | |
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| | JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | said by martissimo:
hmm i dunno, how is this any different than more traditional cable theft like using TV descramblers. seems to me that paying for a service and then taking more than you pay for is just plain theft.
sure, simply cutting these guys service off would have have probably been sufficient, but frankly it is their right to prosecute for theft if it did occur. heck if they were on my node and ruining my speeds i would probably be glad they threw the book at em
It's different because cable internet service isn't regulated like CATV service, so the same "theft of service" laws cannot apply unless cable companies want to find their internet services under regulation, which they most certainly do not. The most that has occurred is a TOS violation and they get their accounts closed, maybe billed some extra charge, but that's about it. | |
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| Spike401Fox Powered
join:2002-04-27
Labrador | Every MSO knows if their modem was tampered with, the day it happens, they know. All they had to do was either terminate their service right on the spot, or exchange their modem for a 'bugfree' one thats not uncappable, if they didnt agree, termination for them. It really is lame, since a new modem would of totally solved the problem.
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| | | Changing out thier modem isnt going to help if they already know how to modify the modem log that controls the caps and other stuff. so exchanging the modem for another one wouldnt have helped, cause you give them the MAC Address for your modem and when you power cycle your modem it connects to the server and downloads the latest log file for your modem so your are then capped, but these guys knew how to modify this file on the modem and get them uncapped, it takes a good knowledge of the modem and network to do this not to mention certain equipment to enable one to do such.
Lord_Power | |
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| | | | Re: This is scary... Equipment?............Equipment? To do what uncap a docsis modem? Yeah, a pc maybe. | |
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| | HHHMM Fishy it is...... Hey ya'll,
Yup I would think if they uncapped thier modem for maximum up and down then they most likly was doing something else that they aint talking about. possiably Piracy or illegal you know.... not going there. plus you must understand also from the ISP's end. they buy bandwidth enough to serve to thier clients and then someone, dunno how they did it, modifies the log on the modem to uncap it, and uses more then the allotted bandwidth per client so the rest of everyone has poor service. I subscribe to buckeye and I get 1Mb+ down and 120Kb up, sometimes I even get as high as 2Mb down depending on the day and time now my next thing is I havent done crap to my system or modem and I get that. so why would anyone need more? really if you pull 1Mb your doing great. dunno I would say though that there is something else they are not talking about here, dunno what it is but that guy was doing something else. Buckeye has caught people before and only cut off thier service and fine them for the extra bandwidth. so I would say that there is something else that is not being told.
-L_P | |
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| marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Re: HHHMM Fishy it is...... The cap they were exceeding at the time was 600/100. | |
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| | | | Re: HHHMM Fishy it is...... I have been with Buckeye from the start and they always had a 1024 down and 128Kb up cap, not 600 down and 100 up. unless they where using the (web TV) one but then they wouldnt have access to a computer to download files.
-Lord_Power | |
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| | Didn't this happen before? I could vaguely remember something of this nature being posted on DSLR a few months ago. Or maybe I'm psychic?
Anyway, it serves him right for stealing service, because it is stealing. But I honestly think it's a waste to send the feds over there. Taxpayer money shouldn't be wasted like that.
Send the feds to arrest corrupt CEO's and CFO's, or to patrol the Mexican border, where they are really needed. The MOST that should have happened was the local cops arresting him, and the cable co seizing his equipment, and some fines to cover the company's loss. Maybe a few days in county lockup too. But not the FBI... Save that for real criminals like those bastards at Enron and Worldcom. | |
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| dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | Re: Didn't this happen before? you are right. it was on here a few months ago. musta been a slow news day to have to rehash old news. *yawn* | |
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| marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | It is on here again because now the grand jury has indicted them. Many people thought this would never make it past the grand jury. | |
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| |  SeVere
join:2001-01-06
Chicago, IL | Re: Didn't this happen before? Almost everything makes it past a grand jury. Grand Juries tend to be rubber stamps for the prosecution. All the prosecution needs to show is that there is probable cause to charge them with the crime alleged. | |
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| | | marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Re: Didn't this happen before? said by SeVere:
Almost everything makes it past a grand jury. Grand Juries tend to be rubber stamps for the prosecution. All the prosecution needs to show is that there is probable cause to charge them with the crime alleged.
Well yes, exactly. Few people thought the prosecution would actually throw in for felony charges.
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 PenguinsHave You Played Atari Today?
join:2001-12-01
Cleveland, OH | Boring. They stole and got caught... thats just so news worthy.
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| |  Personally I would like to ......
Personally I would like to see this criminal "action" go forward and to fruitation. Before you flog me let me explain my reasoning.
As a sitting attorney I would love to be present at this criminal presiding to behold the precidents that will come from the conclusion of these charges. It has been my experience as a broadband user myself (DSL until I purchased a new home that was too distanced from the CO to qualify and currently a TW/RR subscriber) that the TOS (all that I have signed) furnish a speed "up to" the maximum that can be furnished by the provider. This leaves us, at installation and signing of the TOS, a REASONABLE expectation of service. CONTRACTUALLY. Now lets say my "up to" speed is advertised as 2Mbps. My REASONABLE expectation of service would fall into the 75-95% "up to" speed or at low end of the spectrum about 1.2Mbps. Now let's say my provider has knowingly oversubscribed my node or provisioning equipment at the CO or headend and I am pulling only 800-900Kbps which is well below REASONABLE expectation of service. Let's further state that I complain only to find deaf ears on the provider's staff that present an "Oh well!" attitude. After a few months I get my hands on an "uncapping" utility, run it and all of a sudden my speeds are up to 2Mbps as advertised. Lo and behold those on my node suffer greatly because I am utilizing the max "up to" bandwidth but the node being oversubscribed causes my neighbors to see a great decrease in their line speed.
To sum it up this could open up a can of worms for the cable provider and leave them open to a tort. To charge someone with creating the opportunity to "steal" more bandwidth than the cable company allows a good defense counsel would poll other subscribers and determine if the cable provider is meeting REASONABLE expectation of the advertised speeds and if not begin to file numerous motions that would prove that the bandwidth utilized by the defendants did not exceed the total of the whole promised all subscribers.
Should that motion fail I would further file a motion that the cable company can only provide a specific amount of alloted bandwidth to the headend therefore the cable company is not the victim. If the charges should proceed then the prosecutor must present the subscribers that were damaged as the victims as the cable company shows no loss.
I am sorry I am rambling here but this could present a legal nightmare for the prosecution and the cable company and after dwelling on the issue my wife, also an attorney, and I concluded we would have a field day in court and further in the civil action against the cable company for failure to provide REASONABLE service and protection to other subscribers.
Big bucks here fellas and gals and possibly the ability for a subscriber to criminally charge TelCo's and cable companies for failure to provide advertised speeds.
Hmmmmm ...
Thanks. | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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 ShamayimI already have a Messiah.Premium
join:2002-09-23 | FBI must not have enuf to do How about going after some REAL criminals »$300 DSL Runaround
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 PinHeadPremium
join:2002-06-19
The Dungeon | Better watch the TOS - it changes daily It's funny that you purchase a modem ( or are possibly given it for free if you sign a contract ) and then you are arrested for running an "optimization" program on it.
When it was dialup, "optimization" programs were safe, now they get you kicked off or arrested.
And yet when you complain about service, "Read the TOS, it's a best case situation". We do not guarantee a certain download or upload rate.
But should you find a way to get a better rate we will consider it stealing!
Wait a minute, they made a change on their modem. If it was illegal, your network should have had safety nets in place to stop it.
Now it's up to the end user to police the internet.
Go back to 56K days, buy a new computer, connect to the internet, get arrested because your modem connected too fast!
No need for elections, the Phone Co. CEO is now the Prez.
How is it illegal use of the computers when you are charging someone for the use of the computers?
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 stromi
join:2000-06-11
Englishtown, NJ | Anyone have copy of artticle? I get
Internal Application Error
Access violation at address 012922E8 in module 'pbcs.dll'. Write of address 012ED2E8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
/artikkel
at website. | |
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| | | Re: Anyone have copy of artticle? »www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dl···1&Ref=AR
The original article was slashdotted. That's probably why you couldn't get into the article initially.
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| | Why didnt they just terminate their service? They claim to have known about the offenses since their inception. Well, Buckeye has no problem sending out letters to subscribers declaring termination of service if they don't remove various P2P programs. OK, I don't agree with that either. However, why couldn't they have just terminated the offenders service as opposed to involving the feds. If they had definitive proof that they were in violation of the TOS, cancel the subscription. It would have been as simple as that. Perhaps if one was to do a small SNMP Walk of buckeye's network, they would discover that the design of their network, was and still is pathetic to say the least. Their lack of quality design, as well as, sub-standard administration is what allowed the exploit to be utilized. Now the offenders will pay the excessive price for Buckeye's sub-standard ISP operations.
If you have any understanding of their network, you will see that the ability to uncap a modem is the smallest of worries with them. They have other flaws in it's design that are of paramount security risk. They simply want to deter future offenders of utilizing these exploits and truly exposing their neophyte administration. Well, I recommend that they go back to their investors now and explain the need for immediate upgrade before they wind up with a law suit resulting in their own fall. | |
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 tfrionliTom F.
join:2001-06-21
Kings Park, NY | Prepare for Ludicrous Speed!!!!!!!!!! | |
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| | | Re: Prepare for Ludicrous Speed!!!!!!!!!! Good Point | |
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| | INSTALL AND PRESS GO! Had there been a banner ad that provided a download for people to "install and press go" for increased speed on their cable, you can bet that there would have been a hell of a lot more offenders than 7.
What is my point? The point is that the customers want additional speed. Being capped at 128k is ridiculous. Send of picture of cousin Lou in 10 minutes, nice. Geez!
No hosting! No servers, i.e. webservers, email servers, etc. Why not? Because they oversell the crap out of their service. Well, if they are running several T3's (symmetric speeds) for their service, what do they do with all of that upload? Why don't they offer that as well? Because my friends, it invites servers. And servers bring in additional traffic that they have already oversold.
Not sure if they realize this yet or not, however, they have opened a can of worms that given the proper representation, could become a very good thing. | |
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This is scary...
