lujohnson
N 0 E Q P
join:2002-08-08
Agoura Hills, CA
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
|  Such Thin-Skinned Crybabies!
Jeez, I find it hard to believe that a little parody or satire could actually 'hurt' a big company like Dow. I'd like to see their legal 'theory'.
I sure hope that The Thing fights this.... it smacks of censorship and IMO violates their (and the ISP subscriber's) protected freedom of speech. |
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micl
Visit Lovely Downtown Port Starboard
Premium
join:2001-10-25
Silver Spring, MD
| It would be interesting to see what The Thing's service contract is with Verio. Perhaps The Thing might be able to go after Verio for shutting down their WHOLE DAMN SERVICE!
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If I don't see you in the future, I'll see you in the pasture |
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onsitede
Hot Hot Hot
join:2000-11-24
Broad Brook, CT
clubs:
 ·Comcast
|  reply to lujohnson
Did you even read the "press release"? I'm all for free speech and all, but come on. That was pure defamation of character. I believe The Things provider has basically had enough, as the article states this is not the first problem that The Thing has been involved in. |
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cyberthugin
join:2002-03-12
Kew Gardens, NY | re
What ever happened to freedom of speech, it seems big business is trying to shut down people's voices when it knows it they did something wrong. |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state
| reply to lujohnson
Re: Such Thin-Skinned Crybabies!
I think what Verio did was horrible...But as for Dow...
If you research the matter this company didn't simply set up a "parody" site. They sent out emails to various agencies, people, etc claiming to ACTUALLY BE Dow...They then directed people who received the emails to goto www.dow-chemical.com for further info. And that site was made to look official.
They didn't merely "parody" a site...they set up a smear campaign against dow. This is the equivalent of those people that set up mimic sites for banks and then emailed people to "update" their account info and sent them to the link to the fake site where they gave up their personal info and got ripped off. Sure this isn't nearly as extreme, but it's along the same lines of impersonating a company for your own personal goal
What verio did to the thing is awful, but what the "yes men" tried to do to Dow is clearly illegal
If you want to make a site to bash a company..fine there are plenty of them. But going around pretending to be that company and creating a website to further lie and make people believe you are that company is illegal
[text was edited by author 2002-12-31 12:47:43] |
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yourmama
@198.3.x.x | reply to onsitede
I believe by 'pure defamation of character' you meant PARODY.
Which, last I saw, was protected speech. But with the loss of other rights, privacy and miscellaneous freedoms, I may have overlooked that one. |
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ChicagoCPA
join:2001-12-02
Mokena, IL
| You gotta to be kidding
So if Dellhost, provides webhosting service to some nut and he violates the DMCA Verio would cut off their bandwidth if they acted too slowly to shut down the offending site?
I think this is a case of dumping the thing as they don't like "The Thing". I don't see anything wrong with dumping them, as long as there are other providers with equivalent services available. If there are not or they "blackball" the thing in such a way as they go out of business ....then they are out of line. |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | reply to Qumahlin
Re: Such Thin-Skinned Crybabies!
So the fault then, falls with the "yes men" and not the ISP....that should be made clear.
Shutting down ISP's because of the actions of some of the subscribers is a road we shouldn't be going down..... |
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lujohnson
N 0 E Q P
join:2002-08-08
Agoura Hills, CA
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to onsitede
__________________________________________________________
**Did you even read the "press release"? I'm all for free speech and all, but come on. That was pure defamation of character. I believe The Things provider has basically had enough, as the article states this is not the first problem that The Thing has been involved in.**
__________________________________________________________
Actually, I did. I also visited the site. It will be interesting to see if the 'defamation' thing would actually hold up in court. I mean, I have seen MUCH worse on the web. I left the site in question feeling as if it was simply his scalding opinion on Dow.... nothing more.
BTW, I am not 'siding' with any of the participants in this confilict... I could care less, and don't even agree with some opinions expressed on the site ...some are simply inaccurate. But what I am concerned about is the damage caused to the individual or small business by the 'over-reactionism' and 'knee-jerk' sanctions in this particular and other similar situations.
It deserves watching methinks. |
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micl
Visit Lovely Downtown Port Starboard
Premium
join:2001-10-25
Silver Spring, MD
| reply to onsitede
From Dow's press release:
quote:
The provider, Verio, graciously complied with our letter citing the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Not only did they shut down Dow-Chemical.com, but as a good corporate citizen, they agreed to shut down an entire network (Thing.net) of websites many of which, while unrelated to dow-chemical.com, appear to serve no commercial purpose, being dedicated to the unproductive analysis and critique of society and corporate behaviour.
I think this paragraph from Dow's press release says it all when it lauds the fact that Verio shut down not only the sites that may (or may not) have infringed on Dow's copyright, but other sites as well. Dow shows its true character here and it also shows how both it and Verio would rather swat the fly with the proverbial shotgun.
[edit] And BTW: who the hell is Dow to determine what is and is not productive "analysis and critique of society and corporate behavior," beyond what may have affected them and their copyrights??? [end edit]
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If I don't see you in the future, I'll see you in the pasture
[text was edited by author 2002-12-31 13:01:38] |
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JPuppy
Java Heathen
Premium
join:2002-11-24
Honesdale, PA
clubs:
| reply to Qumahlin
At first glance, I'd have to agree. I checked out the mirror site, and it's not obvious that it's a parody site. It looks real, and it even has a dow copyright on the bottom of the page. One important aspect for a "parody" to be protected speech is that it must be obvious that it's not the original.
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-Jaded doesn't begin to describe it |
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slim
Premium
join:2001-02-13
Arlington, VA | reply to micl
Re: uhhh
You do realize that you are reading from the PARODY website, right?
I guess it is hard to tell the difference...
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si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes! |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
|  This is only the beginning of DMCA abuse
Sometimes, I hate being right. I've been dead set against the DMCA since before it was even passed (First heard about it in 1998). The law is unconstitutional in several regards, and it was widely predicted that it would quickly be abused in order to not really protect copyright, but to censor and silence critics and opposition, people who can't afford millions of dollars for lawyers and legal expenses fighting large interests...
And this is a *classic* example of that prediction coming true. Is Dow's complaint really that it is protecting the copyright of it's logo or style of website?
Hell, no. It's using that as cover to crush information it doesn't like. To silence dissent, if you will... and Verio is taking the cop-out because they don't want any "hassles".
So what in effect do we have? Corporate censorship. Using a COPYRIGHT LAW. What a load of crap.
The precedent is now set: Information will not be allowed to flow on the Internet. Only propaganda, sanitized, spin-doctored and PR approved information will be tolerated.
Great. Welcome to the future.
DEATH TO THE D.M.C.A.
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"When the day comes that anyone can bend our country’s laws and lawmakers to serve selfish, competitive ends, that day democratic government dies" -- Preston Tucker, 1948 (Yep, it's dead.) |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to cyberthugin
Re: re
The Freedom of speech has been removed...
On on a related note, see this article... 
»www.theonion.com/onion3847/bill_···hts.html |
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ROCINANTE 2112
Original Member 007
join:1999-06-29
Hartsdale, NY
clubs:
| Catchy title
I see why Dow sued and I don't blame them. The parody site is subtle, and can mislead people into believing that it IS a Dow site.
However, if thousands of Americans were killed in a chemical accident instead of third world people, the company would rightfully lose billions in suits. I guess it's ok (with Dow) to kill thousands of people around the world and ignore them for the most part.
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CRUNCH THIS!
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uniquecp
Where'D It Go
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Scottsdale, AZ
| reply to onsitede
Re: Such Thin-Skinned Crybabies!
said by onsitede  :
Did you even read the "press release"? I'm all for free speech and all, but come on. That was pure defamation of character. I believe The Things provider has basically had enough, as the article states this is not the first problem that The Thing has been involved in.
Have you ever read some of the posts on this forum, in fact I find your opinion a true defamation of character, the character of the Constitution, so what do I do now tell Justin if he does not pull your account I will sue him until he bleeds out of every legal hole he has.
and I can
Good thing I believe in free speech huh.
Clif
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I crunch therefore I am |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to ROCINANTE 2112
Re: Catchy title
said by ROCINANTE 2112 :
I see why Dow sued and I don't blame them. The parody site is subtle, and can mislead people into believing that it IS a Dow site.
However, if thousands of Americans were killed in a chemical accident instead of third world people, the company would rightfully lose billions in suits. I guess it's ok (with Dow) to kill thousands of people around the world and ignore them for the most part.
They shouldn't sue under a copyright violation, in any case. They just chose the DMCA angle because of the provisions to force the ISP to immediately censor the material. This will become the new method. Rather then fight a legitimate legal case with the Defense rightfully using the 1st Amendment, now you'll see quick strikes at destroying the sites by filing a "DMCA Violation" charge. ISP's will be required to pull down content without any say of the content owner or face big legal bills themselves fighting to prove they aren't liable.... Most will fold up like wet paper bags, Free speech rights be damned!
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"When the day comes that anyone can bend our country’s laws and lawmakers to serve selfish, competitive ends, that day democratic government dies" -- Preston Tucker, 1948 (Yep, it's dead.) |
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Spectral
Hates Acl's
Premium
join:2002-05-03
Silverton, OR
clubs:
| I would have to wonder
The site has to be an obvious parody to be protected, not an impersonation. Not that I'm any big fan of Dow and certainly not the DMCA, but I would have to wonder what problems Verio has had with The Thing in the past. As much fun as knee-jerk responses are, for all we know this is the latest in a long string of problems they have caused for Verio and was just the last straw.
p.s Not that I still don't think its a crock they shut them down, but I think on the bright side what fun they can cause when they are hosted in Europe with no pesky fascist DMCA bs lol.
--
"Flying
There is an art, or rather a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."~Douglas Adams
[text was edited by author 2002-12-31 13:37:35] |
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cmcgilton
join:2001-03-14
Stow, OH
| reply to JPuppy
Re: Such Thin-Skinned Crybabies!
Why couldn't it be a simple as the ISP being ordered to shut down the offending website? Or did the ISP not cooperate? Were they even informed?
In any case after reading the parody website (which there was not one indication it was a parody site) and Dow's real website I have a hard time seeing how there is a defamation of character or libel here, since the information in the website is not directed at one individual specifically.
I'm not sure if The Thing can fight this in court due to money issues. True, there is a copyright violation and the remedy is to eliminate the violator's material and penalize the violator. To completely eliminate service to the ISP itself because of one violator's infringement is wrong. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to Spectral
Re: I would have to wonder
said by Spectral :
The site has to be an obvious parody to be protected, not an impersonation.
But if you look at the site, it doesn't say anything about it being a parody or a joke. Almost every other parody site I've seen makes it very clear (usually by a line near the bottom of the page that says "This site is in no way affiliated with company XXXXX"). The site, to the casual observer, looks like it would be an official Dow site, especially if the site's owners sent out a mass email claiming to represent Dow. These actions have always been illegal even before the DMCA.
My guess is that this situation may have been the straw that broke the camel's back with regards to thing.net, especially since Verio had some significant problems with their other clients as pointed out by the article. They probably decided to say "screw this" and cut it off for good.
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DRM == Doesn't Read MP3s
[text was edited by author 2002-12-31 13:43:51] |
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