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Comments on news posted 2003-04-24 18:59:16: A US court ruled today that Verizon Communications must reveal the names of broadband customers accused of heavy file-trading by the RIAA. According to U.S. ..
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  mrchrisOut and aroundPremium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY
| They won't give it up.. I know they won't give it up due to privacy invasion by giving up info they were promised by Verizon's TOS (verify me if i'm wrong?)
RIAA and co., you suck balls!
[text was edited by author 2003-04-24 19:04:12] | |
| | | | Re: They won't give it up.. I would bet they give up the information now, the main reason they were fighting this was to force a court order absolving them of any liability which they now have | |
| | | | | Re: They won't give it up.. Amen | |
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| said by mrchris:
I know they won't give it up due to privacy invasion by giving up info they were promised by Verizon's TOS (verify me if i'm wrong?)
RIAA and co., you suck balls!
[text was edited by author 2003-04-24 19:04:12]
While the following privacy statement is not from Verizon, I suspect that all ISPs have much the same statement:
Although we make every reasonable effort to preserve your privacy as described in this Policy, we will disclose personally identifiable information about you without your consent when required by law in order to comply with a valid legal process such as a subpoena, court order, or search warrant, for example. We may also use or disclose personally identifiable information about you without your consent to protect our customers, employees, or property, in emergency situations, to enforce our rights in court or elsewhere, or directly with you, and for violations of the Service's terms of service and policies (including our Acceptable Use Policy).
This extract has been quoted from the Privacy Policy of Comcast. »www.comcast.net/privacy/index.jsp
The Privacy Policy of AOL/CompuServe also says the same thing in much fewer words:
CompuServe is legally obligated to provide any individual member information available if served with proper legal documentation in connection with law enforcement or legal action
While I have only picked the Privacy Statements of two Service Providers, I am sure that all other ISP Policies are the same. | |
| | | | | | | | | Re: They won't give it up.. said by BellSouthBS:
18 USC 2515 forbids the use of information or data over a wire being used, without an order (warrant) for wire tap, IN ANY COURT OF LAW.
»townofdavie.com/usdoj_wiretap.html
and case precedent for revealing the identity of online users has been set by ACLU v. NJ
»www.citizen.org/pressroom/release.cfm?ID=985
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Neither of these two references have anything to do with the matter at hand! The first reference relates to "wire taps". The second reference relates to the identities of people posting articles on a public bulletin board, who are not using their real names. The matter at hand does not involve either of these issues! There was no "wire tap" and no one posted to a public bulletin board without using their real name! The matter at hand simply involves a request to identify who was assigned a given IP address at a given time. Now true, once that information has been obtained it will most likely be used in other legal proceedings, and those legal proceedings may be subject to review or question. But for now the only matter is one of Verizon received a subpoena for information, which by law they were required to honor. The current judge was only enforcing the law related to the subpoena. Another court, another judge will be involved with the underlying issues that resulted in the subpoena being issued! | |
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| | | This case WILL go to the Supreme Court....god help us all......I HOPE the internet & our rights STAY private and protected!!
Be well all........ | |
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| | Ahh the swift justice system Only in america does this happen.... welcome to the new usriaa where if you swap music you may own you will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
And here we are one step closer to the 1984 classic.... | |
| | | | Re: Ahh the swift justice system well time for a fight. Thats the great thing about being american. We can fight the power if its done right. If you learn how to use words properly, you can drill holes in their lawsuit. Then there is a good possibility of turning a harrassment suit on them and generating enough publicity to destroy their credibility with american consumers who keep them in office in the first place. God bless this free country where a man with a mouth and the power of words can cause great destruction. | |
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| | omg omg omg What is considered "heavy" file trading and does this mean anyone put into this category would be facing jail time? | |
| | | | Re: omg omg omg ALL UR HARD DRIVE BELONG TO US.... | |
| | |  SirXILEThe SolWar 2-1Premium
join:2001-02-24
Brooklyn, NY | Re: omg omg omg said by BosstonesOwn:
ALL UR HARD DRIVE BELONG TO US....
LMAO
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There can only be one..."X.I.L.E" | |
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| | oh dear... Maybe its me being naive, infact it is me being naive but i always thought that due to the terms of service an ISP wouldn't have to give out its users identity over something like that.
This is such a shame, makes me more pissed at the RIAA, granted alot of the files traded are illegal but just because its an mp3 doesn't make it illegal. This is RIAA's attempt at scaring off illegal file traders by prosecuting a couple of "heavy users". It wont happen, they wont stop file trading.
For good reason too, we get absolutely ripped off by record labels, and the junk that half of them produce we could do without anyways. If illegal file trading caused all these labels to go out of business (which it wont ever) it wouldn't spell the end of music, it would make music better, because we wouldn't be buying what they are producing. We would be buying what we want (and at a reasonable price too). | |
| | | |  Re: oh dear...
said by andyp6:
Maybe its me being naive, infact it is me being naive but i always thought that due to the terms of service an ISP wouldn't have to give out its users identity over something like that.
This is such a shame, makes me more pissed at the RIAA, granted alot of the files traded are illegal but just because its an mp3 doesn't make it illegal. This is RIAA's attempt at scaring off illegal file traders by prosecuting a couple of "heavy users". It wont happen, they wont stop file trading.
For good reason too, we get absolutely ripped off by record labels, and the junk that half of them produce we could do without anyways. If illegal file trading caused all these labels to go out of business (which it wont ever) it wouldn't spell the end of music, it would make music better, because we wouldn't be buying what they are producing. We would be buying what we want (and at a reasonable price too).
yea and what about mp 3's i have on my computer that belong to me? if an isp sees mp3's do i go to jail with the "heavy downloaders"? | |
| | mglunt
join:2001-09-10
Fredericksburg, VA | Right... mp3's are not illegal, and downloading even copyrighted material is not necessarily illegal.
If I own a CD. Download a mp3 of a song on that CD, I am well within my rights to do so am I not? | |
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 GTaylorPremium
join:2002-12-14
Frisco, TX | Get ready for the evil lottery Watch and see - RIAA is dying to make some examples out of a few P2Pers.
We shouldn't be surprised, we knew it was gonna happen eventually. It's sad to see them push as hard as they did simply to get their way, just think how much better the music would be if they would devote the same energy into the quality instead of pushing a winner of a national talent show. | |
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approval from:
xrobertcmx 
thumbs down from:
ThirdShifter
| This is ridiculous; repeal the DMCA of 98!! I know since 9/11/2001, we've given up a few of our civil liberties out the sake of national security and such, like the luggage searches, metal detectors, etc. etc., but to waste the Federal court's time with this PETTY crap when there's much more important stuff at hand?!?!?! Pathetic....
File sharing/file trading/P2P/etc. is 100% PERFECTLY LEGAL, though it is true what you trade is where they can get you. Here's a simple thing; if you don't want trouble from these knuckleheads, since they're taking it to the extreme limits now, don't download anything questionable.
Seems that sometimes (especially after the fall of Napster and the whole thing with Internet radio/streaming media), Cary Sherman, Hillary Rosen or whoever the hell these wackadoos from the RIAA and MPAA are, they're solely talking JUST to hear themselves speak! They're puppets, and am I glad Rosen's leaving this so-called 'watchdog' looking out for the artists, yeah right...
Who the hell is responsible for most of this stuff?? Unfortunately, you, me, and everyone else except the baby's who's upstairs asleep. We inadvertently let it happen, for many reasons.
Now, if we want these idiots making whacked out leftover piles of dog shit like the DMCA a law in the USA, THIS country, no less...those of you who do not vote regularly BETTER start voting to get these people out of office so we can get some real business done that's worthwhile, instead of worrying about suing the daylights out of someone who DL'ed a bunch MP3s one right after the other that are probably LONG gone by now. Besides, it's free to vote, no downloads required, and depends on where you live, they actually might count! 
Seriously, I'm all for punishing people who don't do what they're supposed to do, but crap like this is like sending all people who don't DL stuff back to Kindergarten and hearing the teacher say, 'Now, now children, we must'nt do that...'
I'm actually now offended. Eventually the RIAA WILL lose, and lose in a big way, bigger than any of us can imagine. And after that, you're going to see a lot of people wanting the DMCA repealed, all these garbage net-taps to sniff people's packets, and anything with 'Digitality' as I like to call it, technology/media based. But until then, wait and be good little Netizens. The people will rejoice.
Just my $20 worth. | |
| | | | Re: This is ridiculous; repeal the DMCA of 98!! Its all about the money. The music industry has been profiting so heavily for so many years that they are unable to accept selling music at its actual value. The artists arent hurt by people downloading. The artists are hurt by the crooks that own their music in their corrupt hunt for the green. Now these poor music industry suits are in jeopardy of only taking home 500,000 a year or less for the work they didnt do . Their greed has created this monster. | |
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Cyron
join:2002-09-24
Charlotte, NC | Watch out, Once they actually turn over the name, Verizon and other providers will be bombarded with requests to turn over user information.
I would imagine they already have several in their sights. This is just the beginning. | |
| |  avantareGo Tribe
join:2000-02-16
Warren, MI
| Re: Watch out, And then some lawyers will approach those that had their names turned over to the RIAA and a class-action lawsuit will be filed against all the ISP's that gave up the names as well as the RIAA (and DMCA?) for violation of their Constitutional Rights. EDIT - as well as violation of the ISP's TOS and AUP if possible.
Chuck
[text was edited by author 2003-04-24 19:50:02] | |
| | | | | Re: Watch out, That is why Verizon waited for a court order. They were not protecting anyone, just wanted to make sure they cant be sued. | |
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| | | You are absolutely correct. | |
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| | Will the REAL John Doe please stand up? Guess using the names John Doe or Jane Doe's out as Plan B, hmm?  | |
|  nanofeverLiberal Democrats, You Know We're Right
join:2001-08-19
Modesto, CA | ISP Double-Bind If we give names we get sued for invasion of privacy; If we don't we get charged with contempt of court...
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Feeling good about the internet ? Then visit »www.somethingawful.com ! | |
| | | hmmmmmm........... I'm thinking about creating an Anti-RIAA site to support the feelings against the RIAA... but I don't know what to put on it (if I did make it).... any thoughts? | |
| | | | Re: hmmmmmm........... Better buy a lot of bandwidth. A sight like that will be slash dotted. | |
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 53059959Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone | hmm its time for RIAA's site to get defaced again! (not that i did it) | |
| | | | Re: hmm its time forsaid by 53059959:
RIAA's site to get defaced again! (not that i did it)
Whoever is up to it, make sure you post a big Nazi flag on it... 
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Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
BOYCOTT RIAA!!! VOTE SENATOR "FRITZ" HOLLINGS AND REPRESENTATIVE HOWARD BERMAN OUT OF CONGRESS!!! | |
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 richk_1957If ..Then..ElsePremium
join:2001-04-11
Minas Tirith |  I'm afraid this is only the beginning..
Now, they want the names of Verizon broadband users accused of heavy file trading (define that, someone)
The courts rule the Verizon must give up the information.
Next, the goverment monitors and suspects someone of illegal activities using the internet
The decsion against Verizon would be a precedent that the information must be made available
who next ? | |
| dardin
join:2002-11-19
Tucson, AZ
| I'd love to see a case where I'd love to see a case where the RIAA tries to sue someone for sharing out music and it turns out that the person owned the music they were sharing. They have all the CD's with receipts of purchase prior to the date accused of sharing the music. Then the person counter sues the RIAA for harrassment.
RIAA is trying prove that file sharing is decreasing the sales in music. The reality is the RIAA treatment of the consumers that is causing people like myself to buy less CD's out of spite.
[text was edited by author 2003-04-24 20:32:03] | |
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See 14 replies to this post | |
 bono
@pinval01.in.comcast. | RIAA ? they will never succeed RIAA? trying to shut down P2P networks? like who Kazaa? no chance - you probably all know thisa but kazaa has no main server like Napster did it is strickly the users shared files that you download if/and when you use kazaa.....unless the RIAA/FBI/ god knows who wants to shut down P2P they would have to arrest 1 million + people....and dont even get started with the IRC file trading they would have to stop IRC from being distributed.....hahah well ill contribute to the RIAA "hate page" if needed....... | |
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| Dismantling democracy one decision at a time... Here, from BuzzFlash.com is a little more of Judge Bates handiwork;
"Courts Rigged In Favor of Bush/Cheney
BuzzFlash Note: Today, a judge appointed by Bush dismissed a lawsuit by the General Accounting Office, which is seeking access to information about Cheney's energy task force meetings. A BuzzFlash Reader sent us the following commentary on Saturday, explaining how Judge Bates should never have heard the case and illustrating how the GOP efforts to stack the courts are already destroying democracy and paving the way for even more brazen, secretive, and destructive government actions..."
For complete text click here!
Try a few of the other articles linked on their page for a more panoramic view of fascistic attacks on our freedoms. It is pretty clear from these and other biased rulings and actions what the overall agenda of the BUSH-CHENEY led cabal is.
Stacking the law and the courts against the common man, favoring faceless corporate interests over the well-being of the citizenry, enslaving our minds and spirits with the threat, and abusive use, of police power and surveillance technology is what G.W. Bush and his super-rich, right-wing cronies have brought us. Do I blame them for the perhaps irreparable damage they've wreaked on America? You damn skippy!
[text was edited by author 2003-04-24 22:36:19] | |
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See 10 replies to this post | |
| They are doing everything they can The entertainment industry is doing everything they can to accomplish their goals, and they are using the legal system to do it. These are drastic actions; the court systems and congressional bodies are failing the American people; the exercise of the inalienable natural rights that the founding fathers of this country sought to ensure are being systematically eliminated in the interest of stupidity. A good question to ask is "What is music, and what place should it take in our culture?"
This really all goes back to Exodus 32, when the children of Israel were getting impatient for Moses to come back down from the mountain, and someone suggested that everyone contribute their gold, jewelry, rings and necklaces, as well as any other gold they had, so that this gold could be melted down and be carved into idols for worship.
So when Moses finally came down from the hill he saw everyone worshiping the golden idol that had been carved from the people's gold and he smashed the commandments on the ground in anger.
Then Moses, in verse 20, "took the calf which they had made, and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to powder, and strawed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it."
One look at any one of the big "stars" in pop culture and you realize they would not be who they are were it not for the money from the masses. The fans convert their money into an "idol", which they worship. It's not about feeding the starving artist. The relationship between a famous big-name pop star and his or her fan base is not one of sustenance; the fan base feels a strong peer pressure to humble themselves before these stars, to look up to the rich and famous and aspire to one day be like them. Being a fan of a major recording artist or actor can, at times, for a significant percentage of the fan base, be a form of worship. That's why independent artists and labels are so cool; they make the music and the artist more accessible, more humane. There is no "wrath" if you "download" a song. There is a tolerance and an understanding for the average person.
On the other hand, these big name artists, these famous people are elevated to a higher level by the media, by their agents, by their labels - they are superhuman, in a sense. They appear to have a supernatural power. Just recently they appear to have acquired this super-natural power of getting you in trouble with the law. Of course this does not apply to every artist and every fan base.
It's strange when you read Exodus 32; it definitely bears a resemblance to what the entertainment industry customers have done with these "stars" - the stars would not exist were it not for the money; the stars are "created" from the money of the everyday, average citizen. Perhaps we would have a better society if we realized that in a worst case scenario, a true musician would make music for the love of making music, and if the money were to run out, the musician would get a day job instead of pursuing legal action against a few strategically selected people to make an example out of them.
If you read the rest of Exodus 32 there is much bloodshed and mayhem; 3000 people get slaughtered and then a plague hits the people as a punishment for being weak in their faith and creating idols to worship.
I am not exactly sure what the proper inferences are to draw from Exodus 32, or in exactly which way what happened with Moses and the Ten Commandments is relevant to our entertainment industry culture today, but one could argue that by downloading music and movies from big name artists, these stars are being made more famous, and their fan base is actually increasing. Statistics point to the fact that this may in fact be true. Furthermore, it has gotten to the point where they have a "wrath" - these legal actions are designed to scare, to control, and to make the average citizen submit to the "wrath" of the rich and famous. And the plaintiffs are not in the least bit shy about the desired outcome - acquisition of more of the American people's money to create even more idols to swoon over.
Perhaps the only question left to ask is "Where is Moses, and what's taking him so long?" and what is going to happen to the entertainment industry when he finally decides to climb back down from the mountain?
[text was edited by author 2003-04-24 21:08:27] | |
| | | Verizon to tip off John & Jane Doe? I wonder if Verizon tips off John & Jane Doe and they close there accounts, well, there no longer customers. Would Verizon still be required to turn over the names? There no longer there customers. | |
| | | | Re: Verizon to tip off John & Jane Doe?said by cmptrblder:
I wonder if Verizon tips off John & Jane Doe and they close there accounts, well, there no longer customers. Would Verizon still be required to turn over the names? There no longer there customers.
yea and we could all go back to dial up for a couple of months and put the screws to the isp's to | |
| | | | | . what i dont get is why these groups go after little things mp3s big whoop, 20$ a cd or whatver... i know people that have many big name expensive apps worth thousands of dollars -- EACH. why go after people who trade mp3s, simple, its not very hard to catch them (since most of these people dont know what a proxy is or any way of anonymousity) and secondly because theres so many mp3s, its not very hard to accuse a person of having it, and it turns out they have a few, since probably about 80% of the population does. They are just out to set an example by trying to punish these "excessive downloaders/sharers" in hopes that people will give up this "*illegial*" activity. Its the 21st century, computers are everywehre, there will ALWAYS be a way to spread pirated music/movies/software maybe not to the average computer user, but to the more "technically inclined" people its not hard to find something. They need to figure ways they can make money over the internet, THAT WORKS, not some 2$ a song garbage. | |
| | | | | | | | | Re: Verizon to tip off John & Jane Doe? It's my opinion that they are simply buying enough politicians to get the laws they want. (Why argue the point in public/news when a a couple hundred million in campaign contributions will do the job)
They aren't even bothering to "tip toe" around because the US news media doesn't understand the issues, so the media won't report on anything they don't think will add to their ratings.
Remember the ad campaign "Buy drugs, support a terrorist"??
Time for a new one. "Buy a CD from these labels / groups, and support the RIAA" (A terrorist organization IMNSHO, maybe even the new "Axis of Evil")
The RIAA's actions show them to specialize in using to US legal system to commit terrorist acts. What difference is it to ruin someone's life with a bomb, or a pack of lawyers?? In either case the goal is achieved: Make your political point by ruining someone else's life to scare the general public.
I think the RIAA's actions constitute legal harassment and intimidation. And, unfortunately the chances of finding someone with enough money to fight them is measured with a snowball and a blowtorch.
If the music buying public can wake-up enough to protest, then there is a chance. Otherwise, bend over and take what the RIAA is dishing out. | |
| | | | | Cyron
join:2002-09-24
Charlotte, NC | Re: Verizon to tip off John & Jane Doe? | |
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| | Thank Bush! All it took was 1 super-rich oil billionaire to buy 1 election, and the fall of democracy and humanity had begun.
First: taking over other countries for their oil. Second: No more privacy (you whisper 'i despise bush' to a friend and the thought police come out from the bushes and take you away). Third: the USA's last president and first dictator for life: George W. Bush.
i guess we all need to get used to having no privacy. next we'll be forced to give food & shelter to Bush's special elite guard live in our homes whenever they want, for as long as they want.
Sounds like a revolution is in order... time to buy as many guns as possible.
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[referring to the RIAA...] These guys buy congress people like M&Ms | |
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See 9 replies to this post | |
 NabbyWhat Now?Premium
join:2001-05-31
Rochester, MI | Next? I wonder who will be next. With the RIAA hitting a semi big DSL provider, who knows how long before they wipe their asses with our pirated files :| | |
| | | Clause in Digital Millenium Copyright Act Isn't there a clause in the DMCA that says one may keep a copy of a file on one's hard drive for 24 hours to "test" it out? In addition, does it not allow you to "transfer" songs from one person to another? In other words, TECHNICALLY, can I not copy a song from a CD I own to mp3, trade that song with someone, and then delete and destroy all copies of the song I have? Albeit, this is all a hypothetical situation, and no one in there right mind trades songs only to destroy the copies they have. Now, when they track downloads, can they track how long a song has existed on one's harddrive? And also, in the event that one shares more than one copy of a song, can they prove that one didn't own duplicate copies of that song, and then destroy those copies? (I know this all sounds very circumlocuted, but you get my point) | |
| | | | Re: Clause in Digital Millenium Copyright Act I hope the try to repeal the DMCA. Is there any political folks that support this? If so we should see what we can do to help get others on board.
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But I cant find the "Any" key | |
| | | | | Re: Clause in Digital Millenium Copyright Act k.. heres my 2 cents.
heavy users probably classifiys over 1/2 their clintell. if they all went to jail verison would be puckin mad. so i doubt it seriusly.
also by streamin mp3's it's racks up your mb/month, so how would they know if ur dling or streaming?
i doubt this will acomplis much for the Riaa | |
| | | | | | Re: Clause in Digital Millenium Copyright Act If some one created a worm that made all of your media files accessible via P2P networks like Kazaa and Gnutella. I would voluntarily disable my virus protection and look to be infected. Just think if millions of computers were infected and all of their media files were made available to these networks? | |
| | | | | | | Re: Clause in Digital Millenium Copyright Act Scary is all I can say.....I am not sure Verizon will turn it over and what would really happen if they didn't? Sure they can hold Verizon in contempt, but in all honesty, there is nothing more than that they could do. This could get really heated and really fast. I hope Verizon sticks to it's guns, cause the outcome is a damn serious one. This gives the RIAA so much power that they would be unstoppable. It is only a matter of time though til someone comes up with some kind of IP Blocker for these services. For every action there is a reaction. If a blocker was made, no one would have 2 worry.
Our privacy is at serious stake here, and this just does mean p2p either...imagine the trickling down effects on this. On a note...Verizon does have some pretty big support behind it with Yahoo! and a a list of others supporting it.
To Verizon---don't do it. Refuse! Be held in comtempt! What can they possibly do to you? You are one of the largest telecos in America! I don't think they would shut Verizon down, there would be riots all over the country if that happened. | |
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