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Comments on news posted 2003-06-11 09:21:33: Stories continue to pile up from non-cable TV customers angry that their monthly Comcast broadband fee jumped from $46 a month to $60, while Comcast continues to tell customers they're being rewarded for loyalty (or a lack thereof). ..
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72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA
| Re: I guess I am with the minority The problem is in several of your other industries you have choices. In BellSouth territory they are not charging more if you don't have the complete choice plan, you merely aren't getting 5 dollars off DSL. Not to mention there are half a dozen CLEC's available. In insurance... you can call around and get who-ever you like. Same thing with a restaurant, you can order what you want. Can you do that in cable? Nope! Its a monopoly and god forbid someone wants to have a satellite dish. | |
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IIIBradIII
Comm M-E-L Instr
join:2000-09-28
Greer, SC
| Re: I guess I am with the minority said by Nightfall  :
quote:
Does the local McDonalds have a franchise agreement with the county you live in that prevents other fast food competitors from moving in?
I didn't think so.
Neither does cable systems. There are areas that have multiple cable systems. I know it isn't the norm, but this means there are more choices and they are expanding. I know that Comcast and other cable companies are not too wild about other cable providers moving in. However, there is no "agreement" to stay away to my knowledge.
Actually there are such agreements in place in many areas, and my county is one of them. Here's is a link to the minutes of our county meeting where the franchise was transferred recently when Comcast bought AT&T and changed their name.
I've also spoken to the county atty's office personally and verified this. This is indeed a real problem.
[Edit] I guess I could provide the link eh? 
»www.co.chesterfield.va.us/Boardo···0522.asp
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Remember, there are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.
»www.FS2K2.com
[text was edited by author 2003-06-11 12:18:10] | |
| | | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Nightfall :
quote:
Does the local McDonalds have a franchise agreement with the county you live in that prevents other fast food competitors from moving in?
I didn't think so.
Neither does cable systems. There are areas that have multiple cable systems. I know it isn't the norm, but this means there are more choices and they are expanding. I know that Comcast and other cable companies are not too wild about other cable providers moving in. However, there is no "agreement" to stay away to my knowledge.
WRONG!!!! Baltimore City is one where competing cable companies MAY NOT come in. Comcast has 10 year renewable franchise agreements. That may be one but I am sure there are many others out there. | |
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wwwfscvnet
| Re: I guess I am with the minority Hate to tell you,
But Baltimore City does have multiple CATV service providers... Flight systems cable vision
www.fscv.net
I know people with service through them. | |
| | | | | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: I guess I am with the minority said by wwwfscvnet:
Hate to tell you,
But Baltimore City does have multiple CATV service providers... Flight systems cable vision
www.fscv.net
I know people with service through them.
Their service area is miniscule to say the least. Not even worth mentioning. Most of that area is either very high price real estate or businesses. Unless they have gone further, they have a long way to go. | |
| | | | | | vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD
| said by Nightfall :
quote:
Does the local McDonalds have a franchise agreement with the county you live in that prevents other fast food competitors from moving in?
I didn't think so.
Neither does cable systems. There are areas that have multiple cable systems. I know it isn't the norm, but this means there are more choices and they are expanding. I know that Comcast and other cable companies are not too wild about other cable providers moving in. However, there is no "agreement" to stay away to my knowledge.
Nope, Comcast has an aggreement with PG county or a huge part of it, where they are the ONLY provider. Not only that, but starpower has to take them to court just to OFFER service. I called starpower, and they said it was some sort of linsharing issue, I dunno, but comcast does have counties and cities on lockdown.
Combine that with not being able to get DSL and guess what happens then?
Not only that, but Comcast was sued or something to that effect because they just "decided" at their own discretion to stop carrying some LOCAL channels. People WITH CABLE had to go out and get antennas to get the 2 or 3 channels that comcast decided to stop carrying.
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I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!! | |
| | | | | gpancner
join:2001-09-27
Nine Mile Falls, WA | cable television franchises are non-exclusive BY FEDERAL LAW circa Reagan 1984. Any person with the resources CAN overbuild. Try doing a little more research on the subject. | |
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IIIBradIII
Comm M-E-L Instr
join:2000-09-28
Greer, SC
| Re: I guess I am with the minority said by gpancner :
cable television franchises are non-exclusive BY FEDERAL LAW circa Reagan 1984. Any person with the resources CAN overbuild. Try doing a little more research on the subject.
I do my research, but thanks for the snide comment. If you'd like the name and number of my county's atty, I'd be more than happy to provide it so that you can do a little more research yourself.
They've been most helpful with me in the past, and are happy to read provisions from the contract if requested.
The fact is, such an agreement DOES EXIST in my county - last renewed in 1995.
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Remember, there are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.
»www.FS2K2.com
[text was edited by author 2003-06-11 12:22:32] | |
| | | | | | | gpancner
join:2001-09-27
Nine Mile Falls, WA
| Re: I guess I am with the minority FEDERAL CABLE TELEVISION ACT OF 1984
PROHIBITS THE EXCLUSIVE GRANTING OF CABLE TELEVISION FRANCHISES.
Your real issue is that the local government is actually in an unwritten alliance with the one provider to insure a higher franchise fee stream. If there were two cable companies competing and prices on an already thin cashflow stream were reduced, the 5% franchise tax collection for the local tax-wasters would be reduced. and ultimately one of the two providers would go belly up and it would take some time to recover all of the lost franchise revenue that was due to the competing cable companies. of course the cable companies would get the blame.
Get a copy and read the franchise and in it you should see the wording "this non-exclusive franchise".
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IIIBradIII
Comm M-E-L Instr
join:2000-09-28
Greer, SC
| said by gpancner :
FEDERAL CABLE TELEVISION ACT OF 1984
PROHIBITS THE EXCLUSIVE GRANTING OF CABLE TELEVISION FRANCHISES.
Your real issue is that the local government is actually in an unwritten alliance with the one provider to insure a higher franchise fee stream. If there were two cable companies competing and prices on an already thin cashflow stream were reduced, the 5% franchise tax collection for the local tax-wasters would be reduced. and ultimately one of the two providers would go belly up and it would take some time to recover all of the lost franchise revenue that was due to the competing cable companies. of course the cable companies would get the blame.
Get a copy and read the franchise and in it you should see the wording "this non-exclusive franchise".
I won't re-hash what JTRockville said just a few posts up, but suffice it to say that in my county, Comcast is - in the FCC's own words - not subject to effective competition. And in my county atty's estimation, a monopoly.
Regardless of what the 1984 Act has to say on the matter... in practice, Comcast has a monopoly in my county. Oh how I wish it were not so.
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Remember, there are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.»www.FS2K2.com | |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | Re: I guess I am with the minority Hasn't Comcast been suing some cities to force them to renew their franchises as well? | |
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IIIBradIII
Comm M-E-L Instr
join:2000-09-28
Greer, SC
| Re: I guess I am with the minority said by JakCrow :
Hasn't Comcast been suing some cities to force them to renew their franchises as well?
I don't know that for a fact, but it wouldn't surprise me.
[text was edited by author 2003-06-11 15:15:41] | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | gpancner
join:2001-09-27
Nine Mile Falls, WA
| the FCC definition of "Effective Competition" is when 25% of the homes passed within a politically defined area subscribe to alternate providers of video service (can be satellite, mmds or even another "Hard wire pipe - cable. Family economics decide who to choose - cable or satellite. Unfortunately, many peoplein your area choose not to pay to video services, or like the incumbent so much that they don't want to make a switch. So, that's why there is no "EFFECTIVE Competition". Note the word effective - meaning the competitor to the incumbent is doing a poor job of marketing his services. Or, the incumbent is doing a great job of keeping the majority of his customers happy. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | gpancner
join:2001-09-27
Nine Mile Falls, WA | Re: I guess I am with the minority and how do you do that? I guess your saying poor service, high prices, less choices, and a little bullying will keep a customer. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | gpancner
join:2001-09-27
Nine Mile Falls, WA | Re: I guess I am with the minority just how do they bully a competitor? threaten him with what?
shoot down his satellites? refuse to buy his product. get a clue, there are options, get the dish for both video and internet. or would all of you like cheese with your whine? | |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:
 ·LINGO
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·surpasshosting
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: I guess I am with the minority said by gpancner :
just how do they bully a competitor? threaten him with what?
shoot down his satellites? refuse to buy his product.
Here are a few of the bully tactics RCN documented in their petition to deny the ATT/Comcast merger, filed with the FCC (MB Docket No. 02-70), on April 29, 2002:
• Interference in Local Franchise Negotiations
• Obstruction of RCN's Access to Services of Third-Party Contractors Upon Which RCN Relies To Construct and Deploy Its Network
• Withholding or Threatening to Withhold Access to Essential, Non-Substitutable Local Sports Programming
• Impediments to Building Access
• Predatory Pricing said by gpancner :
get a clue, there are options, get the dish for both video and internet. or would all of you like cheese with your whine?
I have a clue already, thanks. I don't need sat, DSL, dialup, wireless, OR the crappy cable for my internet access.
[text was edited by author 2003-06-12 01:49:49] | |
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IIIBradIII
Comm M-E-L Instr
join:2000-09-28
Greer, SC
| said by gpancner :
the FCC definition of "Effective Competition" is when 25% of the homes passed within a politically defined area subscribe to alternate providers of video service (can be satellite, mmds or even another "Hard wire pipe - cable. Family economics decide who to choose - cable or satellite. Unfortunately, many peoplein your area choose not to pay to video services, or like the incumbent so much that they don't want to make a switch. So, that's why there is no "EFFECTIVE Competition". Note the word effective - meaning the competitor to the incumbent is doing a poor job of marketing his services. Or, the incumbent is doing a great job of keeping the majority of his customers happy.
The point here is not WHY there is no effective competition, although that is a fact. The point is that Comcast leverages monopoly-like powers in many areas to penalize customers that don't buy everything Comcast sends down the lines. My county happens to be one of those areas. Period.
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Remember, there are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.»www.FS2K2.com | |
| | | | | | | | | gpancner
join:2001-09-27
Nine Mile Falls, WA | why don't you find some investors and build your own? | |
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IIIBradIII
Comm M-E-L Instr
join:2000-09-28
Greer, SC
| Re: I guess I am with the minority said by gpancner :
why don't you find some investors and build your own?
Perhaps you missed my post earlier that my county wouldn't let me do that even if I was so inclined? You can speak to the county atty yourself if you like - he's quite amiable.
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Remember, there are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.»www.FS2K2.com | |
| | | | | | | | | | gpancner
join:2001-09-27
Nine Mile Falls, WA
| Re: I guess I am with the minority the county is required by federal law to allow competition.
but you've touched a good point. you've been complaining about the cable company being a monopoly and now you say your COUNTY wouldn't allow another cable company. so which is it? the big bad cable company or your friendly elected officials? instead of talking with your amiable county atty. maybe you should hire one with cajones and get a class action suit going so you could bring down the "monopolists". | |
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IIIBradIII
Comm M-E-L Instr
join:2000-09-28
Greer, SC
| Re: I guess I am with the minority said by gpancner :
the county is required by federal law to allow competition.
but you've touched a good point. you've been complaining about the cable company being a monopoly and now you say your COUNTY wouldn't allow another cable company. so which is it? the big bad cable company or your friendly elected officials? instead of talking with your amiable county atty. maybe you should hire one with cajones and get a class action suit going so you could bring down the "monopolists".
Once again, I'm not complaining about the county - they signed the current (10yr) agreement in 1995 and I don't ever remember even hearing about cable modems until at least 1997. The issue at hand is predatory bundling, and as far as I know the county has no say over that - they can only control basic cable rates, nothing more.
In practice, Comcast holds monopoly power in my county and is using it to further their slap-in-the-face pricing schemes. That's the beef I have with this whole ordeal.
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Remember, there are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.»www.FS2K2.com | |
| | | | djrobsd
join:2002-01-24
San Diego, CA
| The difference is that if I am an entrepreneur I can open up a restaurant next door to Mcdonalds and charge 30 cents less for my burgers, and give them a run for their money.
I don't have that same choice if I want to start my own cable company! You can't just open up a cable franchise. There is only ONE set of cable lines running to people's house, and every city has an EXCLUSIVE agreement to one company to provide cable TV services, therefore it's not possible to compete in this field.
Even satellite companies have lost their competitive edge. You can't get "Basic" satellite service with DirecTV any more, you have to buy the $33.95 a month package to get a bunch of channels you'll never watch. LOL | |
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
| Re: I guess I am with the minority My area has two cable companies, other is knology. Two sets of cable wires on the pole. Comcast has direct competition here but the cable modem rates are the same as everywhere else. Cable competition here did not bring lower cable internet rates.
As for the “discount” or “penalty” for not having tv service, it is all in your point of view. If you sign up today for both services it looks like a discount,. If you were already a subscriber to both, your bill does not change. If you had only cable internet and just saw the increase on your bill it sure looks like a penalty.
The whole issue is as much bad marketing as anything else. They probably should have grand fathered in the existing customer who had cable modems only at the current rate so as not to generate so much ill will.
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Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812 | |
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roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| said by djrobsd :
I don't have that same choice if I want to start my own cable company! You can't just open up a cable franchise. There is only ONE set of cable lines running to people's house, and every city has an EXCLUSIVE agreement to one company to provide cable TV services, therefore it's not possible to compete in this field.
Even satellite companies have lost their competitive edge. You can't get "Basic" satellite service with DirecTV any more, you have to buy the $33.95 a month package to get a bunch of channels you'll never watch. LOL
Cable franchises are non-exclusive by Federal law, and have been since the mid-'80s. (I lived in an area that had two cable providers for a couple of years way back when; one sued the other and both landed up being purchased by Scripps-Howard, who has since sold their cable systems to Comcast.) In various neighborhoods to the east of where I live now, BellSouth provides wired cable in competition with Comcast (also former S-H, former Comcast, former AT&T...)
The only situation where exclusivity is still legal is in the case of multi-tenant properties, where the property owner (landlord or condo association) can sign an exclusive contract with a cable company.
As for DirecTV, AIUI, they quit offering Select Choice because few people subscribed to that package and for no other reason (most DirecTV customers, including myself  , usually buy much more than Total Choice, while Dish Network customers tend to stick with their basic AT50/100/150 packages)...I'm almost certain they grandfathered customers who had that package when they discontinued it.
-SC
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No-Bull SE US Wireless Info: »www.sewireless.info/
Atlanta Apt/Condo Cable & Broadband Info: »www.atlaptcable.info/ | |
| | | gpancner
join:2001-09-27
Nine Mile Falls, WA
| cable is no monopoly. having a tacky looking dish hung onto a home proves it. people chose a dish because they perceive it to be superior to cable. so why dont they just get internet from the company tehy get their video from? it's because of price. consymers would end up with an inferior internet provider and we all know it. don't you just wish you could have your cake and eat it too!? | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
 ·Cox HSI
| It is *not* "bundled" discount!
If it was a discount, it would be applied to whatever service the consumer felt was primary, be that the broadband or the TV service
What this is is *penalty pricing* for daring to use a competitor, namely DBS Television.
So, if a guy has DBS TV, and it's smoking Cable TV's prices and quality, and he also has broadband via cable, Comcast comes along and says "You have to dump DBS and get our Cable TV, or else we're going to jack up your broadband price". THAT IS NOT A DISCOUNT. That is an anti-competitive PENALTY.
If they wanted to discount they'd say, "Hey, add cable TV to your line, your broadband bill stays the same, but we'll give you $20 off the price of the Cable TV service...."
THAT'S a discount!
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"Standing by a president (Bush) when right or wrong "is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." --- President Theodore Roosevelt 1918 | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
·AT&T Southwest
| Charter Pipeline does not charge more to non-TV subscribers if you get their highest speed "Gold" package for $59.95 (1.5/.128mbs). If your cable company offers the same deal you might want to do the math to see if it would be worth using the extra fee (for non-TV users) toward some kinda "Gold" service. DSL would be a step-down where cable is available. | |
| | | ATLHSI
join:2003-02-13
Roswell, GA
| How is BellSouth charging less for their Complete Choice package any different than Comcast charging less for cable customers? (At least Comcast doesn't make you have a certain level of cable service to get a discount, unlike Bell where you have to have their top of the line service.)
The RBOCs are actually worse- you can't even get DSL if you use a CLEC (or your cell phone) for your local services instead of them. In contrast, Comcast does not require you to have any level of cable to be an Internet customer of theirs. | |
| | | | Cassius187
join:2001-09-01
Beaverton, OR
| Re: I guess I am with the minority Comcast is NOT charging cable TV and internet customers less. They are paying the same as they always did. In the case of DSL, they actually do lower the internet rate $5 when you get certain packages. I would not complain one bit if comcast gave a discount to cable tv customers. Say they lowered the price from $42/month to $37/month, that is actually a discount. | |
| | apollo80
join:2002-01-31
Richmond, VA
| Hey, how about THIS for a nifty concept?
When it comes to bundled services, you LOWER the prices.
Those that DON'T have the bundled services, you MAINTAIN the price, not RAISE the price on EXISTING CUSTOMERS.
Insurance companies don't RAISE the price for someone attempting to get a car insurance policy only, they offer a DISCOUNT, provided you get their, say, homeowners insurance along with the car insurance. Those with an existing car insurance policy, and not a homeowners policy, don't see their rates jump up later because they don't have the homeowners policy (although they will see a rate hike if they get a bunch of speeding tickets :> )
THAT is what is happening here. The price is going UP if you don't subscribe to more of their services. | |
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| vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD
| Nightfall for goodness sakes I PERSONALLY told you the difference between your examples last time. You gave your examples about bundles from insurance companies and you were told why that DOES NOT apply. I dont see a need to retype it again. You KNOW the difference. Shame on you man. You are trolling, not blatently but you are trolling.
Sorry man, I like your posts and all but you fit the definition of a troll. You hit every new thread like this with "let the bitching begin" etc.etc.
You know what you are doing, and you are taking away from these articles. Your title should read MVM in networking forum ONLY
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I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!!
[text was edited by author 2003-06-11 09:50:42] | |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Comcast Troll Alert!!!!
Dude...you are an idiot. Find ONE other person who agrees with you and I will eat my words!
Bundling is OKAY!...but this isn't bundling!Raising prices and then giving preferential treatment to your bigger customers (the ones that spend more $$$ on your products) is highly unethical...and should be illegal if it isn't already.
I hooked up my parents with SBC DSL...they get it for $29.95 because I chose a certain POTS package... If I hadn't...DSL would be $39.95 but the POTS line would cost the same.
What Comcast should've done is say something like... you spend $50/month with us you get a 5% discount. You spend 100 you get 10% off....that seems a little more fair.
When I was 17...I used to produce programs for the community cable access channel...even got a "rising star" award. This is back in the day when Jones Spacelink was the cable company. They funded the whole operation....paid a couple of people's salary, bought equipment, provided studio/office space...and 5 channels on their pipe. Jones became AT&T...and AT&T continued the tradition. AT&T becomes Comcast and they shut down cable access funding.
I am sure you've seen/heard Comcast's "we're your new cable company and we will do the right thing" commercials. But them playing games with prices, the whole Verizon DSL ad fiasco, and stopping the funding for community programming...how is that doing the right thing??
You can't see it but I am holding up my middle finger. I cordially invite Roberts & Company to come sit in it and rotate.
I confess, I am a bitch of a consumer to please and keep pleased. But DirecTV has kept me happy for 2 years...and Comcast's antics aren't convincing me to switch anytime soon!
Geeeez!!!
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»www.kapilville.com::: Do, or do not, there is no try::: | |
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djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA | Come on, you must know that your first post was a wide open invitation to get people riled up over the subject again. You even gave illustrated instructions on how to beat the horse. Good job!
Rabble! ... Rabble rabble rabble
-- Rob | |
| | | | | NGOwner
join:2000-11-21
Leawood, KS
| I have watched this thread with such amusement.
It is scary to think that so many believe an unregulated business can't do what it pleases when it comes to pricing (within legal guidelines). In this particular case, nothing Comcast has done is illegal, regardless of what that Congresswoman believes, or however many investigations she spawns.
Taken from posts I made earlier on another touchy topic, but equally applicable here: quote:
B!tch, whine, moan, B!tch, whine, moan. It's like a group of dogs chasing its tail.
Newsflash:
If you don't like where your ISP is going, vote with your wallet. Leave them and find another. Is it that hard?
Welcome to a free market economy. And of course it is a free market economy. And of course you have a choice. You may not like the choice, but it is there.
Get DSL.
Get IDSL.
Get SDSL.
Get wireless.
Get satellite.
Get 56K.
Get bonded 56K.
Get ISDN.
Get FTTC/H.
Get a fractional T1.
Get a T1.
Or go without.
No choice. Humbug. Stop sniveling.
Where does it say that access to broadband is a staple of existence, and not a luxury?
Where does it say that access to multiple broadband vendors is an unalienable right of the masses?
Where does it say that a company cannot change its prices on its products at its whim?
To sum: If you don't like where your ISP is going, vote with your wallet. Leave them and find another. And stop b!itching about it.
[NG]Owner
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It is impossible to create an idiot-proof product. Humanity is simply too adept at churning out better idiots. | |
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| TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
| said by Nightfall :
Mainly because I understand this move. It is called bundled services.
I wouldn't have a problem with it if it wasn't such a steep difference. You have to pay something like 30% more just for not having cable TV.
And just so you don't think I'm pissed off because I'm paying the higher price, I do have cable TV, so it doesn't affect me. It still doesn't seem fair, though. | |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| Re: I guess I am with the minority said by TheWickerMan :
I wouldn't have a problem with it if it wasn't such a steep difference. You have to pay something like 30% more just for not having cable TV.
And just so you don't think I'm pissed off because I'm paying the higher price, I do have cable TV, so it doesn't affect me. It still doesn't seem fair, though.
So, do peoples' bills reflect the non "bundled" price of cable internet service minus the "bundled" discount as a line item? | |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs: | Re: I guess I am with the minority Oddly, JakCrow, they don't. | |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| Re: I guess I am with the minority said by JTRockville :
Oddly, JakCrow, they don't.
That's not very surprising. | |
| | dbamber
join:2003-02-07
Payson, AZ
| i am fortunate to live in a town with municipal broadband available. here in mass there are 3 or 4 towns with their own town owned broadband, cable systems. comcast is the main player in our area. suprisingly, they have yet to raise their prices because of having competition. i would have to conclude that until there are multiple providers of these servives then whatever the traffic will bear is what you will be paying. | |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs: | Re: I guess I am with the minority * drools over dbamber's muni *
Does your muni offer video, phone, and broadband? | |
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zoom314
Superman
Premium
join:2001-04-30
Yermo, CA
| Well I'm glad I have Charter Pipeline. Of course Charter Cables marketing department does call from time to time, They did last night too. Cable in the area where I live is ALL Charter and Nothing Else, For about 20-100 Miles in Any direction I might add. And Yes I own My own Cable Modem, a Motorola sb4101, I bought It on ebay. Charter doesn't mind at all, All Charter Pipeline wanted was the MAC address on It when I had first bought It. I would just like Charters Marketing Department to go away as We Have Dishnetwork for TV and are getting a FREE second dish installed on Friday (06/13/2003), It's cause of some channels in the 8000 range (Local Los Angeles Channels) display an ad saying a second dish is needed to view them and I was told It would be a Free install and add nothing to the bill that wasn't already there.
--
Charter Pipeline rules in Hesperia, CA, Verizon sucks..... | |
| | davidm2
Premium
join:2000-01-06
Bala Cynwyd, PA
| said by Nightfall :
If you want the discount, then buy both products.
Why bother, it's cheaper to forget the bundle!!!
DSL from Verizon $35/month. Multi-channel TV from DirecTV $40/month. The Comcast price for the same thing $105 (and that's at the bundled price).
Let's see, $105 vs $75... $105 vs $75... tough choice. I take my discounts AND unbundled service, too. | |
| | | davidm2
Premium
join:2000-01-06
Bala Cynwyd, PA | Re: I guess I am with the minority Btw, I'm in the process of leaving Comcast, as I type! | |
| | | 
Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| said by davidm2 :
said by Nightfall :
If you want the discount, then buy both products.
Why bother, it's cheaper to forget the bundle!!!
DSL from Verizon $35/month. Multi-channel TV from DirecTV $40/month. The Comcast price for the same thing $105 (and that's at the bundled price).
Let's see, $105 vs $75... $105 vs $75... tough choice. I take my discounts AND unbundled service, too.
Hey, thats fine. If you can get reliable DSL service for $30, then go for it. SBC Yahoo DSL is $30 in my area, and I am considering that as well. The only thing I have to say about that is the fact that I am 9,000 feet away from the CO. That is bad for speed.
--
My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal | |
| | | | davidm2
Premium
join:2000-01-06
Bala Cynwyd, PA
|  Re: I guess I am with the minority
My advice, ask what speed they'll provision at. For the most part you should get it!
It's a shame there is not competition on the cable end the way there is for DSL. | |
| | | | davidm2
Premium
join:2000-01-06
Bala Cynwyd, PA
| [QUOTE= Nightfall ] Hey, thats fine. If you can get reliable DSL service for $30, then go for it. SBC Yahoo DSL is $30 in my area, and I am considering that as well. The only thing I have to say about that is the fact that I am 9,000 feet away from the CO. That is bad for speed.
I'M ABOUT 11,000 (give or take) from the CO and I'm getting, CONSISTENTLY, 1.4 to 1.5 Mbps. According to Verizon (and I assume it's the same for other DSL providers), you have to be within 12,000 feet to the central office to get the 1.5 Mbps. | |
| | | vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD
| said by davidm2 :
said by Nightfall :
If you want the discount, then buy both products.
Why bother, it's cheaper to forget the bundle!!!
DSL from Verizon $35/month. Multi-channel TV from DirecTV $40/month. The Comcast price for the same thing $105 (and that's at the bundled price).
Let's see, $105 vs $75... $105 vs $75... tough choice. I take my discounts AND unbundled service, too.
You are one lucky mofo!!:)
I live in a NEW housing development, and we have ALL fiber around here. We might not be able to get DSL for now, but we will have FTTH when it comes out (if ever).
--
I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!! | |
| gatzdon
join:2002-10-25
Lake Zurich, IL
| Forget the prices, the service itself sucks. I'm only with Comcast (originally AT&T) because I got an offer to get the basic cable TV for $1.99/month for 12 months. Besides the "taxes" going up spontaneously on the first Comcast bill, my service goes out several times throughout the day, usually for a half-hour at a time. This has been going on for 3-4 months now. I could not imagine what kind of havoc this would wreck on someones cable modem connection, especially if someone used VoIP as their primary phone line.
Personally, when my $1.99/month promo is up, I definitely plan on cancelling because I think I get a more reliable signal through an antenna on the roof during a lightning storm.
--
To err is human, but to forgive is against my policy! | |
| | apollo80
join:2002-01-31
Richmond, VA
| Re: Forget the prices, the service itself sucks. OT here, but to touch on what you've been saying...
I too had AT&T before the Comcast takeover. I have two digital cable boxes in my home, as part of some package that AT&T had for the longest time...one of the boxes I don't pay a rental fee for with this package.
Well, I decided to call Comcast last night because I've been thinking of downsizing my existing package, plus I only really need one digital cable box, so I wanted to find out how much I would save if I returned the box.
GET THIS...I was told that I wouldn't save anything because of the old AT&T offer, BUT on August 27, I would be charged an extra $9.95 for the extra box I already have; the fee would appear on my July bill, as they bill a month in advance. When I asked if I was ever going to receive notification to this, I was told, NO...I WOULD JUST SEE IT ON MY BILL.
WHAT????!!!!!!!!
I currently live in an apartment and I'm trying to buy a home. I'm sticking with Comcast for cable and broadband ONLY BECAUSE I don't want to switch over to something else, then have to dump my future provider a month or two later to move, then pick them up again. When I get into my new home, it's a satellite dish and DSL for me. | |
| | 
dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Cable needs to treat cable boxes like cable modems. if you can buy your own cablemodem why cant you buy your own cablebox as long as its a supported model? i think its a down right ripoff that you not only have to rent the boxes, they also get you for the remotes too. this isnt a comcast issue alone, its standard operating practice for any cable company.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
| | 
needforspeed59
Cruise Ship Just Passing Through
join:2001-05-02
Glendale, AZ
| DVD, I believe a universal cable box is being worked on. I read where the manufacturers and cable companies are getting together. I don't recall on when a solution might be available. I imagine there is a whole lot of jockeying going on as to whose technology becomes the standard.
--
Of all the people I know... you're one of them. | |
|
ComcastLOL
@199.35.x.x
| I canceled comcast and went to SBC DSL After they switched from AT&T to Comcast, my household and neighbors kept getting dropped occasionally for hours.
Called the tech, did not show up, my housemate was pissed waiting for 2 hours. Comcast said their network was fine, LOL.
So I called their accounts billing to cancel. Switching to DSL next week and crossing my fingers for better internet.
Getting a lot of my friends and neighbors off Comcast once I test SBC DSL reliability. | |
| | apollo80
join:2002-01-31
Richmond, VA
| Re: I canceled comcast and went to SBC DSL I had SBC when I lived in Connecticut. They were GREAT when it came to their DSL service. I almost never had outages (when I did they were thankfully late at night) and the speeds were consistent and solid.
The only complaint I had towards SBC was their tech support. I'm no genious, but I knew more than their tech support did. | |
| 
newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
| My email to the author, Michael Bazeley quote:
Mr. Bazeley,
I just read your article entitled "Comcast's Net-only rate draws ire". California and Bay Area residents are not the only ones upset by this blatant price gouging by Comcast. But . . . California is the only state that has a Senator who has publicly stated that she also finds this an "unlawful tying arrangement", and has asked for an FCC investigation.
»www.marinij.com/Stories/0,1413,2···,00.html
Also, there are more than a "very, very, very small" number of users on the Comcast Forum of DSL Reports (»www.dslreports.com) that also find this to be an outright penalty for Comcast High Speed Internet subscribers who choose to NOT subscribe to their cableTV. In fact, in a recent poll of 2021 DSLR users, over 60% indicated that they regard this types of "bundling" as Anti-Consumer Monopoly Tactics.
»/poll/vo···e&aid=-1
Perhaps your fine publication would be interested in a follow-up to the original article pointing out that Senator Barbara Boxer also regards this bundling as a "troubling threat to the burgeoning competition for cable TV service from satellite providers." Perhaps your readers could be invited to take an online poll sponsored by your publication?
As a DirecTV subscriber, which I consider a superior service, I am incensed that Comcast can require a subscription to one service in order to receive the ADVERTISED price for another. This appears to be in direct conflict to the spirit of the new Federal Provision of the 1992 Cable Act of October 2002 that said that cable operators can no longer require subscribers to buy multitier packages of programming to get pay-per-view events and premium channels, such as as HBO, Starz, and Showtime. Comcast has simply transferred this provisionary practice to a pricing scheme centered around HSI and cableTV. What's more, there is NO technological reasoning behind requiring this bundling to receive the advertised price. It's greed, pure and simple.
Thank you,
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| 
reddog00
Ahhhh That Feels Much Better
Premium
join:2003-02-24
Crossville, TN
|  It should be BUNGLED not BUNDLED!!!
--
Control is an illusion!!! I got some ice cream...I got some ice cream!!! | |
| 
big poppa pump
join:2001-05-18
Chicago, IL
| Dumped Comcast teaching them a lesson I have Comcast and dont care about price increases bacause I just got SBC DSL for $29.99, I always hated dealing with ATT for their service now comcast, they raise their rates every chance they get, I never trusted them and never will.
--
CUBS #1 | |
| | 
zabes63
join:2003-04-05
Batavia, IL
| Re: Dumped Comcast teaching them a lesson I would love to do this..
But alas, those of us deemed unworthy of DSL by Eddy's minions, either pay Comcast whatever it wants or do without.
--
Click here to visit Tri-City Broadband | |
| | | |
GW
@microworld.com
| Re: Dumped Comcast teaching them a lesson I dumped Comcast HSI and phone, I just could not justify paying almost $60 for internet access.
I now have wireless internet, half the speed for half the price. Then again I was paying Comcast twice the price for 1/4 the speed of @home.
For what I use it for I can't tell much of a difference between the wireless and Comcast other than the bill. | |
| | | gpancner
join:2001-09-27
Nine Mile Falls, WA
| Re: Dumped Comcast teaching them a lesson i dumped dsl (paid $49/mth for 640down/256up and never saw half of it, and had to have a land phone line to get it- another $35). kept the phone, dumped the dsl, got comcast cable for 6 t.v.'s and comcast internet (down speeds have been up to 1900k) for $42/mth on all three of my computers.
i'm more than happy not being a DishDummy. | |
| | | |
GW
@microworld.com
 from:
dsaliem
| Re: Dumped Comcast teaching them a lesson Don't get me wrong, the HSI was great but I could no longer justify the cost and I refuse to go back to there substandard cable TV.
In my area cable TV is almost useless; the picture quality is so poor on some channels you can't tell what's on.
There is a pager transmitter near the head end that bleeds in and screws up half the channels.
The transmitter is licensed and within all the specs. they need to adhere to, the head end is just poorly shielded and Comcast just keeps saying it not there fault. | |
| 
GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Not one but another....
I do think those that subscribe to Comcast cable should get a discount if they add internet service over those who only get the internet service alone. The question I would ask is what does that delta come out to in dollars? Is going from $49 to $60 reasonable? Not sure.
What has to be remembered is that Comcast's primary goal is to attract subscribers and thus generate $$$. They want more subscribers on both the cable TV and broadband side of the house, so if they can attract more cable TV subs by "bundling" broadband, so be it. However, the pricing should clearly reflect a discount to do so.
What it seems here is that the cost of the regular sub stays the same (until we get hit with the FCC's new USF tax that is) but the non-TV sub cost goes up. This move only simulates a discount -- but is not in fact a real discount. This is what I find distasteful - Comcast spouting off about how they are rewarding TV subs with this "discount" when in fact there is no real discount, your rates just stay where they are.
I have more of a problem with the fact that I have lost a number of channels from my TV package since all the restructuring that I must now purchase for a fee. That's what really ticks me off now. However, this is what cablecos have always done...and even though it's irritating as hell -- until I get a house I am not going to mess with a dish....so for now I just deal.
K.
--
"We can go from boom to bust, from dreams to a bowl of dust. We can fall from rockets red glare, down to 'Brother can you spare' -- another war -- another waste land -- and another lost generation. . ." | |
| |
newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
| Not one but another.... said by GlobalMind :
This is what I find distasteful - Comcast spouting off about how they are rewarding TV subs with this "discount" when in fact there is no real discount, your rates just stay where they are.
The very fact that Comcast consistently refers to this as a "discount" implies that it's a temporary price structure, subject to being ended at any time. I suspect that the discount will end in the next round of price increases, possibly after the ATTBI transition completion or sometime early next year. Comcast is preparing you for well over a 25% price increase.
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| | |
GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Re: Not one but another.... said by newview :
Comcast is preparing you for well over a 25% price increase.
That very well could be. There seems to never be a limit to how high the rates can go. At present with cable TV and cable modem our cost is well over $120...if that shoots up much more, chances are I'll be rolling back my Comcast services.
K.
--
"We can go from boom to bust, from dreams to a bowl of dust. We can fall from rockets red glare, down to 'Brother can you spare' -- another war -- another waste land -- and another lost generation. . ." | |
| | | |
newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
| Not one but another.... I'd even be willing to wager that the much-touted Brian Robert's speed increases to 3000 down will coincide with the price increase (or discount elimination, depending on how you look at it). That would be their justification for the increase.
Personally, my thinking is that when my monthly bill goes up, it's a price increase. Period.
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| | | | | | | | | | |
newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
| Not one but another.... Thanks for the glasses JT . . . now I see the light.
But, I've always seen red when the cableTV penalty issue comes up.  | |
| 
lt_wentoncha
Red6
join:2002-05-12
000000 | AOL DSL Still out in the wind Having had AOL DSL, I'm pretty sure they still won't benefit from the influx of Comcast refugees | |
| heyhey9
join:2003-06-07
Bridgeport, CT | They are penalizing I have cablevision in my area with their online service for 5 dollars less ($45 versus $50). Thats rewarding tv customers (sadly for the "family" package though), not punishing those without their tv service | |
| |
xerodustrial
@rr.com
| Re: They are penalizing Exactly. Had they decided to slash rates on cable internet $5-$10 for people who purchased cable TV, then they would be 'rewarding loyalty'. What they are doing is punishment (see: extortion) for people who don't use their cable TV.
Here's what I don't understand: if you don't buy the cable TV, they jack your rate up about $15. But if you do buy the cable TV, how much do they add for that? I doubt its free, so you're still paying more regardless of how you handle the situation, right? | |
| Luchador
join:2003-05-31
Covina, CA
| Simple Now I'll be the first to admit I'm not all that bright, but it seems pretty simple to me: The TV service is their main offering. If McDonalds has a Big Mac for 1.99, and a combo for 3.99, I can't go to Burger King, get a .99 cent Whopper, then go up to the counter at McDonalds and get the fries and a drink for 1.99 just because the math adds up. They're going to charge me something like three bucks because that's the price of the fries and drink. That's logical. If I'm refusing their main offering (Big Mac/Cable TV) because I love Whoppers (Dish) soooo much, I can't demand to pay the same price for my fries and drink (High Speed Internet) as people who get it all in a combo.
Did that make sense? No, really, I think I got lost there for a second... 
--
That's Crazy talk! You're Crazy! Get off the road! *HONK*
[text was edited by author 2003-06-11 15:45:59] | |
| |
See 17 replies to this post | |
Luchador
join:2003-05-31
Covina, CA
| Sat Satellite Broadband is available, right? Sure, I hear nothing but bad things, but that's basically the equivalent of Burger King having bad, soggy, oversalted super-expensive fries. If you don't want their fries (satellite broadband) then be prepared to pay full price for fries from someone else.
--
That's Crazy talk! You're Crazy! Get off the road! *HONK* | |
| | 
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Sat said by Luchador :
Satellite Broadband is available, right? Sure, I hear nothing but bad things
You hear bad things about Comcast here practically every minute. If I had based my decision to get broadband based on what people here say, I wouldn't have bothered. All of the people I know in real life who have Comcast HSI (even in Montgomery County, MD) have never had any major problems with it.
The minor problems we've had include minor outages, which occur once in a blue moon, and minor slowness in speeds, which occur during peak hours. Other than that, everything is pretty much OK.
Comcast is only charging $60 because they can. The people who pay that to Comcast are telling them "Its OK to charge us this kind of money for broadband." Why would Comcast lower the price when they can charge a higher price? No business does that. I also know technical people that work from home who didn't think the money was worth it, and they went back to dialup. No one died. I honestly don't see what the big deal is here.
--
Saying that Microsoft has a monopoly in Operating Systems because one is too lazy to learn a different OS is like saying that Ford has a monopoly in cars because one is too lazy to find a Honda dealership. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | |
JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:
·LINGO
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·surpasshosting
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Sat said by pnh102 :
If I ever have problems like that which would render my connection useless then I would just cancel. If I can't use it anyway why should I pay for it?
I didn't pay for it - I got credit. But that still left me without service. said by pnh102 :
said by JTRockville :
Regarding the price gouging...
Comcast is forcing people to choose between paying prices that border on extortion, or do without an increasingly essential service.
I don't see how this is force or extortion. Comcast is not disallowing people who get satellite service from becoming broadband subscribers (unlike the phone company, which requires you be a phone subscriber in order to get DSL, but that's OK to people here because they aren't Comcast), nor are they holding a gun to peoples' heads saying "you MUST buy this or we will kill you."
I never said the phone company's bundles are fair. In any case, the phone company is not forcing you to use their phone line to the exclusion of all other phone lines either - they're only forcing you to pay for it, which is very similar to the cable company bundle (subscribe to basic, or pay a similar price). The only difference: People who live in DSL serviceable areas have a choice. It doesn't feel as much like extortion when you have a choice. said by pnh102 :
If a high speed connection is that essential to you (e.g., for business purposes), then get a fractional T1 or some other type of business-related service.
I have a full T1. There's a HUGE void in service offerings for folks like me. I'm not a business. I'm a telecommuter @ 19.3k cable ft from my CO. The lack of residential cable reliability is a bit off topic... but my choices are:
• a totally-unguaranteed-no-promises-honored residential service, or
• an iron-clad-if-you-ever-drop-we'll-fix-it-before-you-can-pick-up-the-phone-and-call-us business service.
Either way, there are serious drawbacks.
[text was edited by author 2003-06-12 09:44:54] | |
| therage57
join:2002-01-03
Salt Lake City, UT
| Yeah they are rewarding me alright!
I moved into my new house last summer and within a couple months I dumped Qwest phone service and signed up for AT&T internet AND local digital phone service. Thought at the time I was being kind of loyal to them and doing the right thing by taking "more services". I got a huge fee increase in return for taking more services. It is ONLY about competition with Sat TV and nothing more. I'm not dropping Direct TV because cable doesn't carry Major League Baseball or NFL. Only thing left for me to do is NOT reward them by being a phone customer and go back to Qwest local phone service. I'm assuming they don't care at all about the phone service and could care less about my business. | |
| | Cassius187
join:2001-09-01
Beaverton, OR
| Re: Yeah they are rewarding me alright! Same thing for me. I called and told them that I was a phone subscriber and an internet subscriber. They said the bundle only applies to cable tv. It's very obvious that they are just going after satellite TV, which is a ton better and cheaper then their cable TV services.
What sucks the most is when I heard about the price increases that were coming I called them and was told that since I was a long term customer(3 years) that my digital phone service and internet would count as a bundle, and so my rates wouldn't increase. Well they did and now when I call and tell them this they claim to have no record of the phone call and say they can do nothing. And then they remind me how I can save money by signing up for cable tv. | |
|
newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
| The perfect solution . . . [sarcasm]
Seeing as how Comcast has succeeded in dividing it's subscribers into two camps . . . the 1st class cableTV subscribers who are loyal and receive the rewards, and the 2nd class non-cableTV HSI only subscribers who receive the penalties, it's only fair that we DSLR users come up with a plan to eliminate this divisiveness.
I propose that we raise the prices of HSI by $7.50 for the cableTV subscribers, and lower the prices of HSI for non-cableTV subscribers by $7.50 . . . so that, once again, all Comcast subscribers are created equal.
This would also put to rest the media reporting of angry customers who feel they are being taken advantage of by Comcast. It would also increase Comcast revenue. Even though they are losing $7.50 from the "very, very, very small" number of non-cableTV subscribers, they would be reaping huge profits from the cableTV subscribers, since there are SO many more of them.
What, you're a cableTV subscriber and you don't like this idea?
Well, perhaps now you know how WE feel.
[/sarcasm]
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: The perfect solution . . . They "Penalize" most people with that non-video fee because they KNOW the dishes give better quality/service for a better rate and if people are going to keep their dishes then they got to pay a premium for the HSI.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
| | | | 2farfromCO7
join:2000-10-14
Farmington, MI
| Again, it all comes down to lack DSL availability OR LACK THEREOF!!!
I hate to sound like a broken record player, but this is just another symptom of the cable companies knowing that they have about 50% of the broadband market captive. If they only get 1/3 of the other 50% then they have 2/3 of the market. I mean while DSL is lowering their prices, Cable is RAISING their prices. That doesn't sound like competition to me. If you don't subscribe to cable TV, then DSL is $30, and cable is like $65(over double). If all those people could get DSL, cable could never get away with that. | |
| Talis
join:2001-06-21
Houston, TX
| Whats the fuss here.. I don't get it. Admittedly I haven't read all the posts on this topic. Maybe someone has said this before but..
Is there some law that says you can't have two sources for your TV? Is there some law that says you have to use a service you're paying for? If not, just upgrade to the cable-TV w/ DSL service package, get the $43 price, and use it or not. Looks to me like you would be saving $3 on your overall bill and you still get to keep the Sat-TV or whatever other source of TV you currently have.
There is nothing illegal about them raising their rates. There is also nothing illegal about you paying for a service you don't use. In this situation it looks like you're better off going that route than not.
Whats all the fuss about? | |
| |
JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:
·LINGO
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·surpasshosting
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Whats the fuss here..In a Comcast Forum topic, How much is limit basic in your area?, you'll see that upgrading to basic TV will certainly not "lower" your bill. In fact, in many cases, the basic TV subscription price + 5% franchise fee exceeds the $15 penalty.
Here are some of the highest basic rates that were reported:Washington, PA $14.23
Ft Myers, FL $14.95
Weirton, WV $15.20
Miami, FL $16.56
Montgomery County, MD $17.47
Philadelphia, PA $17.99
Wicomico County, MD $19.00
Sebastian, FL $24.99
I can't tell which group of folks is more irate about the penalty - the ones who subscribe to basic TV because it's less than the penalty, or the ones who pay the penalty because their basic TV rate is higher.
In any case, you've got to wonder why this subscriber isn't considered "loyal". | |
| odysseus15
join:2003-06-02
Mill Valley, CA
|  Hate to say it...
Did you read now that Comcast has a program for their employees to "rat out" neighbors and others who have dish systems on their roof? They are paying them like $2 bucks a report. That way they will mail, call, and even drop by those homes to try to resell cable again.
Now although Comcast has like 3million customers, they fear the 900k dish subscribers who have signed up. Monopoly tactics? Probably. They should be forced to actually sell off their cable network provisions to other cable providers, much like Telco. Perhaps that is actually free market from regulations. | |
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