clecrupt9
join:2002-01-22
GA | Death of Landline
In truth the telcos have lost many more phone lines to cell phones than VoIP. I think Jeff Pulver means cellular included in alternative networks.
We're a ways away from VoIP getting 40% by itself, though it may get a good size chunk. |
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bistro777
Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?
Premium
join:2002-02-07
Englewood, CO
| Competition...film at 11
From today’s Electric News Net, what one Austrian telco is doing - - “Already telcos in the US and Europe are prepping themselves to fight back against this leakage of revenues by getting in on the act themselves.
Don’t ya just love what competition does to the entrenched entities (in any business)?
Veni, Vedi, Napi. I came, I saw, I took a nap. |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
 ·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| say goodbye to stale products
Its matter of time before the bells, have to change, most people will one bell line (basic), and the voip phones for that bulk of calls. I think the 911 thing should be that you have preferred location, most people dont move there ata;s on a daily basis.
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Alright DR. Slotkin do your worst. |
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phxmark
What Country Are We Living In?
join:2000-12-27
Glendale, AZ
| They are afraid, very afraid
The ILECs are very afraid. I wish I could get high speed access where I live. I would switch my telephone service to a VOIP provider in a heart beat. Of course, it would have to be high speed cable, and not DSL.
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Still living on Dial-Up. |
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cyberthugin
join:2002-03-12
Kew Gardens, NY | reply to clecrupt9
Re: Death of Landline
More like death of the phone companies~ |
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N10Cities
SILENCE I Keel You
Premium
join:2002-05-07
Roland, OK
clubs:
·Cox HSI
 ·World Lynx
|  Change of business model in store.....
This has already been brought up, but what the telcos will have to do is change their business model. Instead of giving a dialtone, they will just sell wire pairs for data. You then just subscribe for any type of service you need - voice, data, video (if the bandwidth will accommodate) from other vendors...
The telcos could also change their infrastructure and set it up like a big WAN. Just have data switches and repeaters at the CO and RT's, just like a corporate LAN... |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| said by N10Cities  :
This has already been brought up, but what the telcos will have to do is change their business model. Instead of giving a dialtone, they will just sell wire pairs for data. You then just subscribe for any type of service you need - voice, data, video (if the bandwidth will accommodate) from other vendors...
The telcos could also change their infrastructure and set it up like a big WAN. Just have data switches and repeaters at the CO and RT's, just like a corporate LAN...
You mean run fiber ? 
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Alright DR. Slotkin do your worst. |
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bigdaddy17
join:2003-05-08
Miami, FL | Fiber
Cant we all just get along and run some fiber?  |
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averagedude
join:2002-01-30
Mesa, AZ
·Cox HSI
| I could not resist. |
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tunes
join:2002-01-31
Grosse Ile, MI
 ·Vonage
| VoIP is the killer app for broadband internet
As I said before, VoIP is the killer app for those of us with broadband. More and more the legacy telcos will be relying on their remaining legacy customers. I feel sorry for those older folks who don't understand what broadband is or what is becoming possible in our digital age. Yes, I'm sure that someday I'll be the one that is out of the tech loop as my grandkids rock on. As for the telcos, they will either adapt or they will die.
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1.21 gigawatts! |
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jose3030
Premium
join:1999-08-17
Manassas, VA |  reply to averagedude
Re: Fiber
Thumbs down for that one. LOL |
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nunya
SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
clubs:
·AT&T CallVantage
| POTS is far from dead
POTS is far from dead. You must have a BB connection to use VoIP. Less than 25% of people with bb available subscribe. Also if POTS were to go away, so would half the VoIP customers.
ILECS will evolve. The network will swing over to packet for the most part, except where critical services are needed.
As a Vonage customer, I can say that it is not POTS replacement material yet. It does offer a lot of features, such as ported tn, cw, cid, ctx, 3-way, and more. I think the selling point of VoIP is the feature rich offerings, not the QoS. Obviously it is not as good as POTS. It might be some day.
Instead of deciding how to regulate VoIP, aside from safety issues, perhaps the govt. should be looking closer at de-regulating the rest of the industry.
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The fighter still remains. |
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falconfighter
@swbell.ne | As long as voip depends on all these entities to work ....it will NEVER be as good as pots.! customer service it pitiful at these voip companies. they all just pass the blame................ |
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J D McDorce
Premium
join:2001-12-29
Westland, MI
| reply to nunya
With today being Day 1 of trying VoIP, my personal application is not as a total replacement for POTS. Besides not being willing to give up my DSL, POTS will continue to be primary at my house for incoming calls, local calls, and 911. Where VoIP comes in is for long distance (including Canada) and a means to avoid the obscene local toll call rates. As an added bonus, it gives me a 2nd line to use. |
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what the1
join:2002-07-10
Des Plaines, IL |  Hope you enjoy it, I've had it for sometime now and it works wonders. Just make sure your internet isnt out in times of need! |
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MountainManKJ
@fuqt.org
| VoIP is just another way to by pass stupidity
VoIP is as dynamic as the internet. It allows people true freedom over who their teleco provider is, as well as to what they want as to area code, etc. For example, alot of places steal tons of money because of the zoning BS that the teleco providers use to decide if its long distance or not. In most cases you can eliminate that totaly with VoIP, plus you could get a number that is closest to where you mostly call, thereby dodging long distance charges. It particularly effects smaller telecos. Which in my opinion should just go ahead and call it quits and let the native baby bell of the region take over. Lets face it, I have frontier communications and they can not even provide me a decent POTS line, let alone an ISDN or any thing else. And I have a TINY local calling area (1 prefix) - It is rediculous. So basicaly what I did to dodge them was setup a small BCM and a MI2004 at a friends house and used his 3MBIT SDSL to carry it to me which goes over my T1 to the internet. I then crapped out my regular phone line and use my companies cell phone. Fact is, if the telephone company was worth their salt, itd not have went to all that trouble. But now I have a phone that is clearer (My lines suck that bad, internet was IMPOSSIBLE). The government would not like people to have this kind of a choice, as I could just as easily get the same thing to happen but across the country in the state where the rest of my family lives. Plus the FBI knows that if VoIP ever made a big entrance into wide stread useage, it would have one hell of a time with phone taps, due to the fact that the ability to encrypt, conseal and in other ways hide ones convernsation / identiy with a communications medium such as the net, and getting a DMS100 to tap a single Tn is not nessesarily the easiest of tasks, especialy concidering the way current trunking methods for most carriers are, using nearly all digital these days. Basicaly, I wish every one would get a voip phone, just to rebel against the oppressive government that wants to stave development of technology and lessen our ability to make personal choices as to how we spend our money on technology, just because it'll make them loose some of the additional tax money they steal from us in addition to the forced taxes they basicaly do the same thing as stealing at gun point. Deregulation is the only answer. Its a free country(Supposidly) - Every company for themself. If the government cant keep up, then I guess they should spend those stolen tax dollars a little better. |
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Sarick
It's Only Logical
Premium
join:2003-06-03
USA
·FrontierNet Intern..
| Why pay for VoIP!
I requested that a few compnies like The makers of Gameshark, Codebreaker, Logitec and Sony to make a VoIP device for the PS2 using the socom type headset or something but NO!
Why can't we get these services free
You don't need a Phone pad just use a DNS resolve with one of those free dynamic IP servers. Whats all the ruckus about VoIP pricing. If it's done right it can be free without the service contracts.
You think the telcos are upset now wait until someone makes a Yearly or Liftime setup that provide unlimited calling for $30 using a system that doen't need it's OWN servers.
It can be done. |
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bigdaddy17
join:2003-05-08
Miami, FL
| voIP
When I got this program called skype(www.skype.com) I tried it out. I was surprised how good of quality it was and no spyware at all. Its even better quailty than the telephone and free. I cant see why they'd charge for voIP just like they started charging for wi-fi. I talked with this guy in Bejiing,China and fortunatly he knew english and he was on 128k and still good quality. voIP is one good broadband utility even for dial-suck users but wouldnt recommend for dial-suck though. I was wondering.. Radio Stations are hooked to a T1 to their tower and I was wondering if Radio Stations use voIP. |
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strauba1
join:2000-10-18
Draper, UT |  BB bandwidth limitations......
With all the talk about bandwidth limitations via BB (i.e. the Comcast discussions), if someone moves over to BB cable via Comcast, for example, are they going to "penalize" you for using VoIP because your bandwidth just increased? |
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TedBailey
join:2003-09-30
Chicago, IL
| Vonage Sucks!
Let's face the facts: Vonage sucks! The quality of their calls, WHEN they connect and WHEN you don't get the fast busy signals that happen all to often from their limited NOC and flooded Switches, are good, but this is not THEIR technology and any VoIP company has the same level of quality--at much cheaper prices too I might add. At least Packet8 is honest. Packet8 charges a fraction of the price of Vonage and the only way Vonage can differentiate itself from Packet8 is Vonage's alleged 24/7 customer service. Let me tell you that Vonage's customer service is a joke! It's a joke from the top down at Vonage. If you call their customer service line (so-called 24/7 right?), you will find 90% of the time you will be waiting on hold for at least 20-30minutes and then at the end of all that you will get a message telling you to leave a message. Don't bother leaving a message though because they don't ever call back. Trust me, I've tried dozens of times. I find myself having wasted many hours calling Vonage to find out what the heck their problem is and why they won't part with a couple dollars to buy more switches and bandwidth instead of wasting all that money on their bs advertising to deceive everyone into thinking they are any different from all the other VoIP providers. Worse yet, this failure to respond to their customers is pervasive throughout their arrogant organization. Just try reaching for example, Michael Tribalay (sp?), their VP who is supposed to be in charge of all this wonderful utter lack of customer service. Good luck. He won't respond. Very arrogant.
The CEO and owner, Jeff Citron, should find some quality people to work for him and provide real customer service instead of spending all that money on overpriced VP's who are arrogant and could care less about customer service, and instead spend some coin on some switches and more bandwidth. Vonage is expanding? What a joke! If so, they are doing so at the price of quality in our connections. I've had their service a long time and am ending it as the customer service is atrocious and hardly worth the 2-4x you pay them over Packet8, whose quality has consistently gone up as they have built a more robust NOC and really are building a backbone (while going through some growing pains just like Vonage did back when Pulver was on board--when things were done right!). Now Vonage is just a band of advertisers and nothing but fluff. They don't know how to run a company based on customer service and with VoIP, you need it, or at least don't charge so much. Sure, if you compare them to the twisted pair mainstream telco's they look cheap, but compare them to what they should be compared to--their competitors in VoIP and you'll quickly see that Vonage is a complete ripoff.
If you join Vonage you are a fool who is uninformed. If you do so anyway, be prepared for plenty of their annoying fast busy signals, regular dropped calls, and when you call in for their so-called 24/7 customer service you are paying for with their already inflated prices, you'll wait on hold for half an hour only to be told to leave a message on their answering machine--for which you will get no return of phone call. Oh yeah, on last thing, many people are now finding that hooking up with Vonage causes problems with their internet connection on their computer as well because of the way Vonage is set up along with the computer behind the router you need to buy. Also, expect your first bill from Vonage to be $80-$150 (even before you use the service, which ought to be FRAUD) because even if you get a months free service or so with them, they still bill you in advance for everything and start billing you when you sign up, despite the fact that in my case I couldn't make one lousy call until two weeks later when I ultimately got the router and ATA converter from them (neither of which worked) and I had to pay for again to get new ones.
Bottom line: Vonage sucks BECAUSE THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE IS A JOKE, ILLUSORY, AND THEY OUGHT TO BE SUED FOR FRAUD BECAUSE OF THIS. How can you have the hundreds of thousands or millions of customers they claim to have (which I don't believe and I think is a marketing ploy, consistent with their other misrepresentations) and all of a dozen people or whatever they heck they have sitting in Jersey NOT ANSWERING the phones (including their VP, Mike) and still call it customer service? Have fun paying for what your not getting if you go with Vonage and keep telling yourself how much you are saving by sticking your head in the sand and ignorantly comparing the "savings" to mainstream telcos instead of the proper comparison. And oh yeah, make sure when you do that math you ignore the fact that your time may be valuable and is instead worth nothing at all, because you'll be chasing Vonage's message machine for many hours each month. Suddenly, even if you worked at McDonalds at minimum wage per hour, you will feel the fool for saving those so-called dollars while you whittle away your time waiting on Vonage hold. They should call the company Vonagehold since this is more appropriate and since the parent is Vonage Holdings.
By the way, when you can't make your calls on your Vonage line and get their infamous fast busy, you'll need to call Vonage on your cell phone and chew up minutes. But don't forget what a savings your getting, right? Sure. Anybody who disagrees must have eaten paint chips as a kid and can't do simple math. I'll take the taxes, the peace of mind, and when I pick up the phone, make a hassle-free phone call 100% of the time. Better yet, I'll switch to Packet8 and pay almost nothing. Their ASR's are better than Vonage anyway, and you don't have to put up with the Vonage lie.
Here's plenty of links from others who agree and tell the truth, just in case you think I'm on a one man rant:
»www.tmcnet.com/scripts/forum/for···1&tree=0
»www.vonage-forum.com/sutra1332.html
(The above link is to the Vonage site itself and a live link right now. If it's not there for you when you go to it, it is because Vonage took it down. Figure how that speaks to their level of honesty and forthrightness for what they are actually providing.)
»www.twentybelow.com/blog/archive···224.html
»www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de···-reviews
There are tons of other links but too many to list here. |
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