Sarick
It's Only Logical
Premium
join:2003-06-03
USA |  Not owned by the VoIp provider so Why Tax?
This is good news! |
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Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Sarasota, FL
clubs: | Exactly what I was waiting for...
This is exactly what I have been waiting for, now I can sign up.
Won't be with Vonage though, even at only $1.50, I refuse to pay a bogus "regulatory recovery" fee. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| While this might be good news for Vonage.....
...this could be bad news for the rest of the arguments against cable providers.
If the judge is correct in the unregulation of the Internet, then how can open access be demanded on cable lines? How can we regulate cable so that they don't screw the customer?
Both good and bad in this ruling. |
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devrandom
I got a pot, full of random stuff here
Premium
join:2003-06-28
| Good..but 911 still is a issue though
I think Vonage would be jet set to replace all the telcos, if it were not for its spotty 911 service. Although this is a whole different issue from the injunction, it still brings to mind the disadvantages that Vonage still has compared to having a POTS line sometimes (not that Vonage was bad).
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If it can be smoked, its prolly not going to be good for you. |
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kozam8
join:2001-03-14
Olney, MD
| A telephone is a telephone
I disagree...and agree.
In what way is Vonage an "information" provider? What is the content that they provide?
Vonage has succeeded by using buzzwords like "packet data" and Internet to make their product seem different, but in reality, this is just a different technology to make a telephone call.
My cell phone sends out digitized data over a wireless network. In the end, however, it's really a telephone.
I AGREE that regulating VOIP is a bad idea. The only way I see to achieve a level playing field for all telephone providers, while not stifling technology, is to get government regulators out of the telecommunications - information - data business. |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| reply to moonpuppy
Re: While this might be good news for Vonage.....
Cable lines are infrastructure, not internet. There is a distinct different between the infrastructure (eg cable and telco LINES) and the content (eg VoIP and email).
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-- Munis Killed the Telco Star -- Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack Mikkokov Motorsports |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| reply to kozam8
Re: A telephone is a telephone
The content is VoIP...if your cell phones digital data was sent via the internet then I would say it's not a "telephone". But since cellular runs over a closed network, it's not the same.
VoIP is merely content delivered via the internet...just because of the appliance it can be used with doesn't mean it can or should be regulated. Streaming media can be delivered ultimately to a television...therefore should streaming media be regulated like CATV, SAT and off air programmers are? Of course not.
The ONLY concern of these politicians is that they're losing a source of tax revenue and they are all whores of the telcos who line their pockets with campaign contributions. It has nothing to do with 911 or anything else having to do with the actual service...it have everything to do with telcos killing competition off and politicians looking for more of our money to waste.
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-- Munis Killed the Telco Star -- Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack Mikkokov Motorsports |
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Sarick
It's Only Logical
Premium
join:2003-06-03
USA
·FrontierNet Intern..
| reply to devrandom
Re: Good..but 911 still is a issue though
said by devrandom  :
I think Vonage would be jet set to replace all the telcos, if it were not for its spotty 911 service.
I don't see it taking over anytime soon, the hassle of the service and it's technical flaws limit it to skilled people. Also the cost of the service and network downtime issues hander it's reliability.
It's just not worth it where I live. I can get a Phone card that has long distance for 3 cents a second. Or design a hardware device that directly connects to Net2Phone for less than the service fee.
If I want unlimited free unregulated chat I can use a Ps2 or a BOX setup with free UserToUser connections.
The problem with this setup is EVERYONE that wants to call me or I want to call needs one.
Vonage pricing isn't any better than the phone services people don't want to pay taxes.
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Trouble with spelling.. This browser extension changed my internet life. »www.iespell.com (it's really nice!) -Sarick |
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Zorglub
join:2000-11-18
Fremont, CA
| reply to oliphant5
Re: A telephone is a telephone
To me, it should be substance over form. No matter how you slice it, Vonage is providing a phone service, and should be regulated as a regular phone provider. Just because your voice is going out as data packets, it does not change the fact that you're using their service to make phone calls. |
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ViviTheMage
vivi
Premium
join:2002-10-28
Minneapolis, MN
clubs: | yay
yay, im from minnesota  |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| reply to Zorglub
Re: A telephone is a telephone
Yeah, like no matter how you slice and apple it's an orange? What, so walkie talkies are now cellular? VoIP is VoIP, not telco service. Both being fruit, doesn't make them the same.
Using VoIP to communicate doesn't subject the CONTENT provider to regulation no more than email being a substitute for U.S. Mail does or regulating HBO because off-air networks are regulated.
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-- Munis Killed the Telco Star -- Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack Mikkokov Motorsports
[text was edited by author 2003-10-16 19:58:34] |
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SuperJudge
Magus
Premium
join:2002-11-14
Albany, GA
clubs:
|  reply to moonpuppy
Re: While this might be good news for Vonage.....
said by moonpuppy :
If the judge is correct in the unregulation of the Internet.
*sighs* I have foresight into an American attempt at regulating the internet soon. America thinks it's the police officer and owner of the rest of the world, why not the internet too. 
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MediaXPeer |
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RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| VoIP and regu;lar phone - similar??
Most telephone communications over any distance (or so I was taught in school) is now digitized, much like the internet signals most of us are playing with now.
So in one sense, if you regulate one, then the other should be?
However, phones even in the bad old days of corded and later cordless phones have been more mobile than the VoIP at the equivalent stage. And consider the other pros and cons that have beat into the dirt.
I do not have an opinion for either side, except that if someone wishes to have VoIP and avoid the taxes and "fees", they should be required to sign a waiver that they are responsible for any and all emergencies and possible lawsuits etc that arise from the lack of 911 and other 'normal' phone services. If they can prove 'normal' phone service present and working, that is another story, but some people are dropping that.
If VoIP ever goes mobile like wireless (cell) phones, then that is a different story.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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boogie74
join:2001-06-19
Neenah, WI
clubs:
| reply to oliphant5
Re: A telephone is a telephone
quote:
The content is VoIP...if your cell phones digital data was sent via the internet then I would say it's not a "telephone". But since cellular runs over a closed network, it's not the same.
So does this mean that anyone online can have conference access to phone conversations that go through Vonage? All phone conversations are transmitted one way or another via data switching and analog/digital/analog conversions. Vonage doesn't use it's own digital switching systems and they don't run an outside infrastructure. Beyond that, their calls are routed through the Bell infrastructure the same as landline calls and cellular calls.
Beyond that, if you want to say that since the conversations are carried over the internet it isn't a phone service, that means that since internet data traffic is carried over a phone network, it isn't a telecom service- and hence the Bells shouldn't have to offer lineshare capabilities. Afterall, DSL isn't really a phone service then, it's a data service that CAN be transmitted over phone lines if you use the right equipment.
Can't have it both ways.
quote:
VoIP is merely content delivered via the internet...just because of the appliance it can be used with doesn't mean it can or should be regulated. Streaming media can be delivered ultimately to a television...therefore should streaming media be regulated like CATV, SAT and off air programmers are? Of course not.
It isn't an issue of the fact that Vonage can be used for phone calls... It's literally designed and marketed to do so. Vonage is advertised as "The Broadband Phone Company" NOT "The streaming internet content provider that could be used for really crappy phone-like conversations"
quote:
The ONLY concern of these politicians is that they're losing a source of tax revenue and they are all whores of the telcos who line their pockets with campaign contributions. It has nothing to do with 911 or anything else having to do with the actual service...it have everything to do with telcos killing competition off and politicians looking for more of our money to waste.
No, it's actually saying that companies can't walk, sound, look and act like a duck and suddenly claim to be a goose if it's during duck hunting season.
Boogie |
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Sprinter99
join:2003-10-10
Grants Pass, OR
| Judge Michael J Davis for PRESIDENT!!!
I just finished reading that whole decision and I think that judge is a GOD! He actually knew what he was talking about, made great correlations, and came to the RIGHT conclusion. I hope this ruling stands and other judges follow the precedent. I still can't believe how much techno-babble he must've had to absorb to write that summary. If he ever runs for president regardless of party, I'm voting for him. |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| reply to devrandom
Re: Good..but 911 still is a issue though
said by devrandom :
I think Vonage would be jet set to replace all the telcos, if it were not for its spotty 911 service. Although this is a whole different issue from the injunction, it still brings to mind the disadvantages that Vonage still has compared to having a POTS line sometimes (not that Vonage was bad).
It only a matter of time before you get the chance to have an extra $5/mo '911 fee' added onto your voip. this regulatory fee thing just opened the can. the worms will find their way to your bill.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth |
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Sprinter99
join:2003-10-10
Grants Pass, OR
| reply to moonpuppy
not necessarily...
If you read the summary and compare it with the recent change of cable's regulatory status to "Telecom. provider" you will see that this ruling doesn't have the effect that you're implying. There is a distinct definition drawn by the FCC between "basic" and "enhanced" services (see page 9 of the decision) with basic services able to be regulated (ie ISPs) while enhanced services (VoIP, P2P, et al.) are to remain unregulated in the interest of further developing the internet. This really doesn't change anything regarding the cable co's fight to remain closed networks. |
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Sprinter99
join:2003-10-10
Grants Pass, OR | reply to boogie74
Re: A telephone is a telephone
once again, refer to the summary and I think you'll find all your arguments satisfactorily debunked. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | reply to oliphant5
Re: While this might be good news for Vonage.....
With the way the FCC and certain Congressmen think, they won't know the difference.  |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Zorglub
Re: A telephone is a telephone
Hmmmm, would that be the same with programs like Netmeeting, CUSeeMe, etc?
Think about it, you "dial" an IP of another system, you use data, "voice" and even video to "talk" to the other person, and to end the "call", you "hang-up."
Better regulate those programs since they make take money away from the telcos now. |
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