Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
|  Bad Move.
Yeah, that's it. Make it up/cover it over to be about the Children.
Path: newsspool2.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earth link.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail
From: ericd@belkin.com (Eric Deming)
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.email
Subject: Re: [OT-evil marketing] Belkin does Verislime one better - router spam!
Date: 5 Nov 2003 15:25:28 -0800
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"JerryMouse" [nospam@bisusa.com] wrote in message news: [wh-dnR5oc5YJnDSiU-KYhA@giganews.com]...
> Mr. Uh Clem wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> What does Belkin say when you complain?
>
> I'd make their life miserable until they removed the offending software from
> my machine.
>
> You did not conset to this aspect of your machine's modification - this is
> nothing less than malicious.
>
> Raise hell.
I was made aware of this posting by an e-mail that was sent to
Belkin's tech support e-mail box. Since I am a product manager for
Belkin's LAN products and was very involved with the development of
the Parental Control feature, I feel that I can shed some light on
this subject. Firstly, without trying to sound too stand-offish, we
are not talking about SPAM here. For me to clarify, an understanding
of the Parental Control service will really be needed.
Since Parental Control is a subscription service, Belkin wanted to
make registering for the service very easy. Since the router actually
will work in tandem with an outside server (Cerberian,
www.cerberian.com) registration information needs to be collected and
sent to Belkin and Cerberian to activate an account. Traditional
methods of registration, such as asking the user to go to a website or
navigate to the Router's internal Web page to enter information didn't
meet the ease-of-use goal. We elected to re-direct one http request to
the "Register Now" reminder page. (There is a link in a previous
posting if you want to see it) This page asks the user to register for
the service for a free 6 month trial. Now, granted this looks like an
ad. It should, it is intended to be informative and easy enough to
understand. At this point, the user can register or click "No Thanks".
Clicking "No Thanks" sets a flag in the Router to stop the Router from
re-directing every 8 hours to the reminder page. (Again remember, only
one http request every 8 hours). Admittedly, there is no controlling
which computer on the LAN this message will pop up on. If the user
just closes the window without clicking "No Thanks", then the flag is
never set, and the reminders will continue. Now, if you are the type
that doesn't want to click the "No Thanks" button, then no problem.
Navigate to the Router's internal web interface (default IP =
192.168.2.1), click on the Parental Control menu. In the Menu, select
"Don't Remind every 8 hours" (This phrase actually varies a bit, but
you get the idea) then click "Apply Changes". DONE. Nothing to it. By
the way, this procedure might have to be done if your router is behind
a firewall. Reason: filter.belkin.com sends a response to the Router
to set the flag. Firewalls will block the response. This might explain
the problem in a school for instance.
We did this not to be evil, we did this to make sure that any
non-techy person (part of our target audience) would have ample
opportunity to opt in or out of the free 6 month trial of the Parental
Control feature. The Router doesn't collect information on you and
send it to Belkin. We don't have the ability to SPAM you at a later
time if you select "No Thanks" or turn off the Reminder manually. I
know this feature might be misunderstood and might PO some people. I
know the manual could do a better job explaining it. These are all
things that we at Belkin are working to remedy.
Oh, one last bit, when upgrading firmware for the Routers that
originally shipped without the Parental Control feature, the new
firmware has this feature added. This was by popular demand. Our
customer install base began to notice the Parental Control feature on
new models that we are shipping, and wanted a solution for themselves
without having to buy a new product. So, we accommodated them.
I'm happy to answer any questions if you have any. Thanks!
The lost message saved by Agent newsreader.  |
|
Sarick
It's Only Logical
Premium
join:2003-06-03
USA
 ·FrontierNet Intern..
| What! Not a feature Spam is Spam.
No It's not a feature. People don't need to get spammed from hardware.
Can't they see the news. No one wants spam.
Do Not Call List.
Anti-Email Spam laws.
And the wonderful programs that block popups.
It's obvious the only feature people would want is a removal feature.
--
Sarick's Dungeon Clipart Page
Trouble spelling? www.iespell.com |
|
alfnoid
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-18
| I Don't Care!
It's too late.
I never thought too highly of belkin anyway, but that wouldn't have stopped me from buying something of theirs if I was getting a good deal on it.
Now I won't ever buy anything belkin (when presented with any choice in the matter) again.
When a company starts getting to where their products are doing things you didn't ask them to do, it's time to walk away.
peace |
|
nil
Java Geek
join:2000-11-27 | reply to Sarick
Re: What! Not a feature Spam is Spam.
The article was written a tad tongue-in-cheek 
Note feature is in quotes..
--
Life is too short to be boring |
|
CyberSchnook3
Kiwi's Schnook
Premium
join:2002-07-27
Blue Nowhere | Pedophiles...
...an admission by Belkin.
Congressional investigation to follow.
--
I am not driving you nuts! You're self-propelled! |
|
Smitedogg
Uzbekikitty
Premium
join:2000-11-11
Pueblo, CO | Wow, that makes no sense at all. |
|
Blackhood5
I Escaped Convergys
Premium
join:2002-08-24
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| reply to alfnoid
Re: I Don't Care!
It's always been my opinion that Belkin makes cables. Not hardware. I've never purchased any hardware by Belkin and I've never recommended anyone else to do so. As a matter of fact I've told people not to.
--
I love my job. I just hate the company I work for. |
|
Ewalking
join:2002-11-14
not saying
| reply to Doctor Olds
Re: Bad Move.
Well if its to fight terrorism then I guess its ok. Errr I mean for the children.. Something tells me they are just saying what people want to hear in order to get their way because they are greedy.. |
|
exocet_cm
I am the law
Premium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
clubs:
 ·Cox HSI
·Suddenlink
 ·Cingular Wireless
·AT&T Southeast
·Charter Pipeline
| So folks...
...what they're really saying is that "as long as it is for the children, we can annoy the hell out of ya".
Soon people will be robbing banks and convenience stores with "Give me all your freakin money! It's for the children!"
--
He that feeds a disease, feeds an enemy. Some diseases are starved. Starve your sins by fasting and humiliation. Either kill your sin, or your sin will kill you. - Thomas Watson Harmless as doves 131 |
|
achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| reply to Blackhood5
Re: I Don't Care!
I am with you. I have always thought that Belkin was over priced compared to other comperable brands (Netgear, Linksys, D-Link).
I never purchaced Belkin equipment just based on that fact, now, I have another reason not to buy their stuff.
I hope, for their sake, they have a good PR depeartment...they are going to need it!
--
Playing the Tuba isn't an art, it's an adventure! http://www.lakesidepride.org |
|
rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
clubs: | bad, bad Belkin
It's Site Finder all over again. The difference is Belkin at least admits it's a problem, whereas NSI screams, "but the users WANT it." |
|
rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
clubs: | reply to Blackhood5
Re: I Don't Care!
I don't even recommend people buy cables from them. I bought a HD50 to Centronics 50 SCSI cable from them that lasted maybe 5 uses (connecting up a standalone tape drive). |
|
gatzdon
join:2002-10-25
Lake Zurich, IL | "Won't somebody please think about the children?!"
I'm sorry, but the more I see this kind of thing, the more I am reminded of,
"War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength"
Where will it stop. |
|
RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| Question
After reading the article and the knee jerks that hit it, I wonder:
Did the box the router come in mention this 'feature'? If it did not, then shame on them. If it was on the box, then what is there to gripe about?
The instruction manual supposedly covered that 'feature'. I know that real techies never read the manual, but why the big fuss over not handling it right? Although I did get the impression from what the Belkin rep said that it may not have been written for the average American reading level.
I know of a few people who would like and would buy based on that 'feature'. Myself, a router is suppose to route, not do oddball stuff. That addition to me would be a potential security hole. Granted I am not a router programmer and know little about the actual mechanics, but the software I do work with I know is weakened when we try to put those special touches that clueless management wants.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
|
richk_1957
If ..Then..Else
Premium
join:2001-04-11
Minas Tirith
|  I a way, it makes sense..
Belkin has parental controls built in to the router.
- OK, good
They want to make sure the parental controls are set up or disabled and/or subscribe to a service.
- Good and anoying but not unusual
You get messages from a server every 8 hours reminding you to set up the controls
- BAD, BAD, BAD
With the current SPAM situation & everybody being so touchy
about it, they should have found some other way to send reminder! Even if you can disable the reminder. Somebody at Belkin, brain - switch on!
I didn't even know they made hardware [like routers], just cable |
|
Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| reply to RayW
Re: Question
What I wonder is was this something new or just unexpected.
I don't really have a problem with it. when I installed the drivers for my Santa Cruz sound card I had what could be considered spam, same with my ATI Radeon Video card.
--
I love Irish Terriers, Low Brass, and the electric blue glow of an 866 mercury vapor rectifier tube at night. |
|
Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
 ·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
|  Whatever happened to just being honest?
It seems like, when it comes to technology, some companies are trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the users. A good example is this spamming router. Why not just come out and admit, "Hey, we made a mistake" instead of calling it a feature and defending your position? Maybe it was a feature that shouldn't have been implemented?
This is something that I learned a long time ago and it has served me well. If I make a mistake, I just come out and admit it. Lying and covering things up only make you look worse. At least if you stand up for yourself and admit wrongdoing, then your friends, family, coworkers, and so on think more highly of you in the long run.
--
My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal |
|
pbannister
join:2003-10-27
Foothill Ranch, CA
| reply to RayW
Sounds more like an honest mistake...
This sounds to me more like an honest mistake. The Belkins product guy offers a very straight-forward explanation. Simply put they wanted the product to be very easy to use for the average end-user. He states the redirect was put in for exactly this reason.
In fact this is a somewhat clever notion. Where they went wrong was in the user interface. The fact that so many people misunderstood is sufficient proof the user interface isn't quite right.
Now understand that getting the user interface wrong is a very, very, VERY common mistake. Pretty much everyone goofs up from time to time. Getting the user interface right all the time is hard, and mistakes are easy. I think we owe the Belkins guy a bit of slack.
Imagine instead that a small very polite gnome popped out of the router, walked over to you and said:
" By the way your router isn't completely setup. Here is want you might want to do. "
Aside from being a bit surprised, would you be upset? Probably not - in fact you might be rather pleased.
Unfortunately programming very polite gnomes is a bit beyond Belkins (and the rest of us), but I do believe the intent was the same. |
|
Bill_MI
Bill In Michigan
Premium,MVM
join:2001-01-03
Royal Oak, MI
·Comcast
| Pbannister, I agree.
Belkin got the hard lesson: "don't put in things that call home... EVER!"
There's a second one: "Get more input before depending on marketing ideas".
They're in recovery mode so I don't think you'll see too many similar things from Belkin any time soon. |
|
cmhbob
Did...Did I Do That?
Premium
join:2001-03-13
Grove City, OH
clubs:
| reply to Nightfall
Re: Whatever happened to just being honest?
Userfriendly responds to Belkin: |
|
