RoguePimp
join:2001-01-31
Phoenix, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
1 edit | You've got to be kidding me
They are joking right? Who does not have a complaint about BPL? There must be a way to work out the issues at hand. I refuse to believe that with the state of our technology we can't work on a way to avoid interference. I just don't but it that all of the problems can be so bad. After all, I get my High speed cable through the same line as my digital cable in the house and I do not get any interference. |
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aSic
application specific
Premium
join:2001-05-17
Wakulla, FL
clubs:
| Hah
Bout time big brother stepped in to smack these BPL tards upside their heads. We knew serious interference existed under the current layout, nobody wanted to listen....till now. Now all we need is the FCC to do its part and make it legal...but like thats gonna happen :\
KE4SOX
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Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say. | irc.fj33r.com #dslr | Starband and DirecWay Certified Installer - Starband SRS GE4 C4/S69 |
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Omega
Displaced Ohioan
Premium
join:2002-07-30
Cheyenne, WY
clubs: 
·Bresnan Online
 ·Verizon Wireless B..
·Comcast
 ·AT&T Midwest
|  this technology is flawed...
With all the protest and concern facing broadband over powerlines, should people really be doing it? We all have cable and dsl, yes I realize BPL could bring broadband to areas without it, but is it worth it?
Personally I think we should invest more in fiber.
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"The doctor's X-Rayed my head and found nothing" |
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aSic
application specific
Premium
join:2001-05-17
Wakulla, FL
clubs:
| Heh...actually, we all DONT have cable or DSL. And no, we shouldnt invest a dime in fibre. The telcos have already mooched enough of my money to be invested in a fibre network that will never materialize.
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Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say. | irc.fj33r.com #dslr | Starband and DirecWay Certified Installer - Starband SRS GE4 C4/S69 |
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andyp6
join:2003-01-28 | I hear they are offering BB over powerlines here..
Take a look at this site: »www.hydro.co.uk/broadband/
seems they are already offering it in some areas in the uk seems like there isnt as many concerns about interference here. |
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minidu
Premium
join:2002-09-28
Mackinac Island, MI
| said by andyp6  :
Take a look at this site: »www.hydro.co.uk/broadband/
seems they are already offering it in some areas in the uk seems like there isnt as many concerns about interference here.
If you read the FAQ on that site it is a trial.
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Experience -- a great teacher, but the tutition fees... . BOFH |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state
| reply to RoguePimp
Re: You've got to be kidding me
said by RoguePimp :
They are joking right? Who does not have a complaint about BPL? There must be a way to work out the issues at hand. I refuse to believe that with the state of our technology we can't work on a way to avoid interference. I just don't but it that all of the problems can be so bad. After all, I get my High speed cable through the same line as my digital cable in the house and I do not get any interference.
Cable and Electricity are two completely separate entities. It is very easy to separate one cable frequency from another and filter the frequencies etc..whereas electricity it is much more difficult
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Forum Posts:3504 |
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aSic
application specific
Premium
join:2001-05-17
Wakulla, FL
clubs:
| reply to andyp6
Re: I hear they are offering BB over powerlines here..
said by from mentioned site:
We are in advanced stages of our trials on a technical level and early stages on a commercial level.
It doesnt say what their technology is.. they could be doing that 5ghz BPL idea that was floating around for all we know. Not to mention, most of the power lines in the UK are underground.. meaning theres shielding involved, so less interference from whatever technology they're using gets out into the world.
There are versions of BPL that would work, but are too costly to implement as of yet..who knows? They just might have deep pockets...
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Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say. | irc.fj33r.com #dslr | Starband and DirecWay Certified Installer - Starband SRS GE4 C4/S69 |
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TACSPEED
Premium
join:2001-04-14
Tacoma, WA
·Advanced Stream
| reply to RoguePimp
Re: You've got to be kidding me
quote:
hey are joking right? Who does not have a complaint about BPL? There must be a way to work out the issues at hand
It looks like they are working on the interference issue.
From ISOC
Electro-Magnetic Radiation Issues
Earlier PLC systems such as the one developed by Nor.Web in the UK emitted a high level of radio noise in the 1-30 MHz bandwidth. This resulted in conflicts with the British government's Radio Agency, when it disrupted radio signals from the BBC World Service. The Department of Trade and Industry (UK) subsequently made it impossible to use PLC in the UK and contributed to the withdrawal of Nor.Web from the business.
Learning from the failures of Nor.Web approach, second generation PLC technologies are using techniques like OFDM, which substantially reduce the potential of interference to radio users, thanks to a decrease in transmitted power spectral density. The OFDM modulation spreads the signal over a very wide bandwidth, thus reducing the amount on power injected at a single frequency. Field trials of PLC technologies carried out during the last 2 years in Europe (Spain, Italy, Germany), North America, South America (Chile, Brazil) and Asia (Singapore) have shown that interference with radio users is no longer a problem for PLC.
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Fiber Optics is the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR Fiber Optic Forum. |
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RoguePimp
join:2001-01-31
Phoenix, AZ | reply to Qumahlin
I agree it is much more difficult to filter the freq fof cable vs electricity but don't tell me we can't figure out a cheap and easy way to do it! I just refuse to believe that we can't figure out a way to do it effectively. |
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hescominsoon
join:2003-02-18
Brunswick, MD | reply to Qumahlin
also cables are shileded to minimize interference..power lines are not and therefore will only increase the EMI and RFI they already geneerate
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God Blesshttp://www.faithwalk.org |
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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
|  reply to TACSPEED
said by TACSPEED :
Learning from the failures of Nor.Web approach, second generation PLC technologies are using techniques like OFDM, which substantially reduce the potential of interference to radio users, thanks to a decrease in transmitted power spectral density. The OFDM modulation spreads the signal over a very wide bandwidth, thus reducing the amount on power injected at a single frequency. Field trials of PLC technologies carried out during the last 2 years in Europe (Spain, Italy, Germany), North America, South America (Chile, Brazil) and Asia (Singapore) have shown that interference with radio users is no longer a problem for PLC.
In other words, rather than pollute just a few frequencies, we spread the noise across the entire spectrum thus raising the noise floor for everyone. Forget it. So far the only BPL system that looks good is the 5GHz system. |
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trisomy
Premium
join:2002-05-23
Houston, TX
| Aren't We Splitting Hairs
I mean no disrespect to those of you who are technically proficient but it seems to me that the issue about BPL is really splitting fine hairs. If I understand the arguments the potential interference to other Voice (Radio) services is what causes concerns. Are we not really talking about technologies that are likely like VOIP to end up in a convergence in any case? Should we not have redundancy for IP transmissions for the last mile in order for this convergence to accelerate? In the event of an emergency isn't it an end user we are trying to reach and aren't they better served with redundant methodologies to reach them?
If any issue should be debated perhaps it is to upgrade a mission critical 'wireless' network to better address these concerns. Sorry but it seems that rather than create a robust and dependable IP infrastructure we are more concerned about special interests, albeit important ones, but not ubiquitous enough to eliminate a 'naturally occurring' (as natural as copper wires can be) Right Of Way in just the area of greatest concern which is 'last mile'. |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | The kiss of death
Well folks this is the end FEMA is very powerful and they have just given the kiss of death to BPL....RIP |
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Stewy85
Premium
join:2003-01-16
Sharon, WI
clubs: | Yeah....and doesn't FEMA have the black choppers to take care of any up risers?
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0111010001110010011101010111010001101000 |
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TheMadSwede
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Holland, MI
·Charter Pipeline
| reply to RoguePimp
Re: You've got to be kidding me
said by RoguePimp :
I agree it is much more difficult to filter the freq fof cable vs electricity but don't tell me we can't figure out a cheap and easy way to do it! I just refuse to believe that we can't figure out a way to do it effectively.
If there was a way to do it cheaply and easily without causing interference, don't you think it would be happening?
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Hey - there's this thing called spell check... |
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N0JCG
join:2003-07-18
Minneapolis, MN
| reply to trisomy
Re: Aren't We Splitting Hairs
We already have a mission critical wireless network. It's called the HF radio spectrum; no infrastructure, highly robust, worldwide communication on very low power, and it supports a variety of digital and analog modes very well. It's already in use by government, military, airlines, FEMA, public service and a variety of others. BPL cannot be permitted to intentionally jam this spectrum between 2 and 80 MHz and trash this unique resource. |
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Healbot
Premium
join:2003-07-16
Vancouver, WA | NOT everyone has cable/DSL
I think this would be good for us the people in the sticks(like me). I would kill for a ping in the 500s and lower with my 1700 ping satellite. Just because you have DSL/cable doesn't the rest of us have it. |
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N0JCG
join:2003-07-18
Minneapolis, MN | reply to RoguePimp
Re: You've got to be kidding me
It's not a technology problem; it's a physics problem. Energy in the 2 to 80 MHz frequency range, imposed on the power lines as they exist today will radiate; end of physics lesson. |
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RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| reply to trisomy
Re: Aren't We Splitting Hairs
If I understand you correctly, you are advocating the use of BPL as an emergency alternative via redundancy? Consider this, if the area the emergency is in has lost power, then the only redundant communications left may be battery/portable generator radios used by hams. A recent example of that was published in the paper a few weeks ago in regards to the SoCal fires where even the GMRS radio band was swamped making hams the point of contact at times.
Now most of the BPL advocates here say fine, no problem, the interference is gone, so what is the big deal? Well, most emergency radios are not kilowatt monsters that can punch through a solar flare, they are a couple of watt units that a car with noisy spark plugs can drown out. They are not only trying to talk to people inside the affected area, but trying to co-ordinate services from outside. If the outside is still having the interference from BPL, then those messages may not make it to whomever needs them.
I look at some of the posts on this subject and some of the comments made on the physics of BPL and I wonder if the high schools are still making electronics one of the mandatory shop classes we had to take.
DISCLAIMER: No, I am not a ham, I have never been a ham, I currently have no interest in being a ham. My background is in repair and maintenance of RF electronics and Electrical Engineering.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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