DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
 ·Charter Pipeline
 ·Verizon west (ex G..
| Just the tip of the iceberg...
How about some proactive education to these users of AOL and Dell, who typically (note qualifier) don't know enough to protect themselves in the first place.
If these companies installed the software as part of the computer purchase (Dell), where it ran in the background and prevented spyware in the first place, it would be less hassle down the road. Or for AOL, who knows that users will click on anything (Earthlink users, too, considering the official looking email attacks these days on both company's users).
This playing catch-up will never work. Yes it may decrease the problems slightly, but not as much as being up front about it initially. Maybe letting the user decide, if they are properly informed and educated enough to make a choice when the software is initially set up or the computer is setup.
Like Microsoft, it will not do anything until it gets bad press, then it moves. They are, after all, in business to make money, not spend it when it doesn't need to be (in their opinions).
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The three most dangerous things are a programmer with a soldering iron, a manager who codes, and a user who gets ideas. |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| quote:
and Dell
Uh, yeah. With the right removal tools, Spyware is just an annoyance. I've got 50 Dells running nicely without any Spyware, thank you very much. Don't paint everyone with that broad brush... |
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elboricua
El Subestimado
Premium
join:2001-08-12
Bronx, NY
|  It is the Users Responsibility
Not the Manufacturer or ISP. It is the user that chose to install kazaa or whatever freeware program is out there. Not the ISP. If Dell were installing apps that included spyware then it would be their responsibility to support its removal. This is passing the buck. It is the user who was dumb enough to click on a link in a junk email. It is the user who chose to insall xyz. With websites all over the place dedicated to security, even Microsoft has a site touting how to protect your PC from worms and virii, users have no excuse.
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Sending script kiddies to /dev/null since 1995! |
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Zzyzx
Sean Raines
Premium
join:2002-12-04
Phoenix, AZ
clubs: 
·Cox HSI
| Hmm...
quote:
AOL says they'll be incorporating software that will run once a week to eliminate and remove nosy applications
Does it eliminate AOL itself, then?
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Don't lose your mind trying to set it free... |
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DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
·Charter Pipeline
·Verizon west (ex G..
| reply to garagerock
Re: Just the tip of the iceberg...
I was referring more to home users, not business users since business users are more aware of the dangers...
I have 350 Dells and 3,000 users (high school) and I've had to resort to including Adaware and Spybot as part of my images, so it can be one of the first things I run to troubleshoot system problems.
Spyware is a major annoyance when you have a couple thousand kids trying to download anything and everything (and yes we do filter and block but there are ways around that).
Didn't mean to hit you with that brush, I think you missed my intended meaning. I wasn't clear about which demographics I had in mind when I wrote it. Sorry.
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The three most dangerous things are a programmer with a soldering iron, a manager who codes, and a user who gets ideas. |
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elboricua
El Subestimado
Premium
join:2001-08-12
Bronx, NY
| said by DHRacer  :
I was referring more to home users, not business users since business users are more aware of the dangers...
As an IT professional for more than 7 years, I have to disagree with you on that one. Business users are not more aware of the dangers. What they do have over the home user is an IT staff that tries to secure the network from spyware, and a helpdesk/technical support staff to clean the machine if it should get infected.
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Sending script kiddies to /dev/null since 1995! |
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DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
·Charter Pipeline
·Verizon west (ex G..
| I would have thought that businesses would have their employees sign an internet/computer usage agreement that tells them they are not to install other software or download programs from the internet...
We do that here for all the kids (but they ignore it and we can't expel the entire student body) and we also make sure teachers are aware of the facts to help keep the kids from doing it as well as themselves.
But of course we still get teachers who ask if Kazaa would be ok on their computer...
You are obviously the more professional person than I , so despite my explanation of my position, you are probably more correct. I understand your logic and I accept it.
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The three most dangerous things are a programmer with a soldering iron, a manager who codes, and a user who gets ideas. |
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ChrisDAT
Google Keyword Compsysnyc
join:2002-02-26
Hollis, NY
|  I found a good method
This "solution" uses hosts file entries to redirect the most pesky of the pop-up and adware/spyware devils to never-never-land:
»www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.txt
This file is constantly updated and includes almost everybody... You'll have to tweak the file because it may include sites you want to use, but it is well-documented and identifies the bad ones.
»www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/
They also have "reg" files that allow you to add sites to your restricted sites zones, so they can't run those nasty active scripts and installs behind your back:
»www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/restricted.htm
Free -- that's the way I like it.  |
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George Kidd
join:2001-08-09
Vancouver, BC
| Another Method
I am involved with an Educational Institution as well. What we do for "Student" machines in our labs is to Reimage the contents overnight. That can be driven automatically from a Server. So at the End of the Day any student additions are just Gone....Cheers. |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| reply to DHRacer
Re: Just the tip of the iceberg...
No need for apology; upon reflection, I did misunderstand.
As an IT professional for 10 years, I'd have to agree with elboricua that business users are less inclined to care about what ends up on their machines, as they have said IT staff to fix it!
Again, I misinterpreted your post. Sorry. |
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ChrisDAT
Google Keyword Compsysnyc
join:2002-02-26
Hollis, NY | reply to George Kidd
Re: Another Method
Isn't "flashing" a whole PC over the wire just plain fun Long live the Ghost !!!! |
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DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
·Charter Pipeline
·Verizon west (ex G..
| There's another nice little program called Deep Freeze. You set up the computer the way you want it, install & configure deep freeze, and then you image it, and you're done.
If anyone makes any changes to the system (deletes files, adds unapproved applications, etc.), a simple reboot restores the system to it's original setup that you did.
Fantastic! Kids can screw with the computers all they want. Next reboot and all their damage is gone.
At least that's what its supposed to do. We are going to get it and try it out, but it sounds good on paper.
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The three most dangerous things are a programmer with a soldering iron, a manager who codes, and a user who gets ideas. |
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C4
@nuria.telefonica
| reply to elboricua
Re: It is the Users Responsibility
Completamente de acuerdo. Si dejamos que los ISP nos digan que cosa es o no es SPAM/P0RN/BUENO/MALO para nuestra navegacion, acabaremos teniendo una internet con programas (malos) de television.
Que los ISP no nos molesten, que ya nos encargaremos nosotros de bloquear lo que NO necesitemos.
Saludos desde Espa~a. Y feliz 2004! |
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C4
@nuria.telefonica
| reply to DHRacer
Re: Another Method
Deep Freeze don't delete data
»groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&l···om#link1
Cheers C4 |
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ChrisDAT
Google Keyword Compsysnyc
join:2002-02-26
Hollis, NY
| This is Serious...
The implications here are much more insidious than simply spam that clogs up your email inbox...
Many sites enter into an agreement with spyware distributors and hijackers for financial reasons, what happens unfortunately, by you, the user entering into a membership agreement with the site, you also unwittingly opt-in to their advertisers' "schemes." This in turn allows them to send monitoring software to your machine for marketing puropses.
As an example, when you sign up for DSLR, you cannot tell the site that you do not want to see the ads that grace every page, thus you/we have opted-into the ad stream that DSLR promotes... There's nothing inherently bad about this, and I'd rather get targeted ads, than non-targeted ones.
If you really dont't want to see the ads, you have to take it upon yourself to prevent that access... or otherwise prevent your specific information from reaching the advertisers (see above)....
It's the behavior of some that compromise your computer with their virus-like behavior that's almost criminal. |
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sherman10570
join:2000-10-15
Pleasantville, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to elboricua
Re: It is the Users Responsibility
I agree, it is the responsibility of the user to audit there own activity. In reality, however, this is easier said than done. Manufacturers and ISP's are taking the heat for these problems because customers bitch when their computer don't work. When someone has installed New.net (DNS hijacker / new DNS top level domains), they usually first call Dell and bitch they can't get on the 'net. Dell will spend 10 minutes showing them the computer is OK for everything else, and pass the buck onto the ISP. The ISP then gets the grief, because the customer says these problems didn't start happening until they started using the ISP's service.
So, at the end of the day, the customer believes the Dell machine and ISP are crap. And next time, they will avoid these companies at all costs. Manufacturers and ISP's recognize that spyware/adware/crapware is costing them their reputations, even though it's not even remotely their fault.
These companies are not really "scared" of spyware, they want to kill it as much as we do. The problem is that in the United States distributing information that can clean up bullsh!t is sometimes illegal. What a country...
- Sherman |
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jeffbrantley
join:2000-03-24
Ballwin, MO
| reply to DHRacer
Re: Just the tip of the iceberg...
But the real problem is the spyware creators, not the computer and OS manufacturers. Yes, someone bigger than spybot or adaware should step up to the plate and make a bigger dent in a quickly growing problem, but it is not their responsibility to prevent people from installing things unexpectedly.
When you make it their responsibility you get mostly unusable software out of the box. Where on previous versions you had to turn ON security features, they're now all coming screwed as tightly as possible because of MS trying to please the less savvy masses. I think some of that is good, but it can be a pain to a savvy user such as myself when I have to reconfigure a computer's security (still all in the same convoluted places) just to use it.
I liken this to the US Government trying to keep terrorists from blowing up another building. Yes, they should protect the citizens of the US, but how far are you willing to let them go to do that? There is only so much room you can give them to act before it starts negatively affecting your lifestyle. Not all government officials want to strangle freedom, but it sure would make their lives easier. The same reasoning that lead MS to lock down XP by default would be akin to US locking its borders, processing ALL people who try to legally enter the country, and imprisoning (or shooting) those who try to enter illegally. While that may effectively squelch terrorists from doing major damage, the fear of terrorist strike would slowly be replaced by a fear of being labeled a terrorist in your own country.
I think AOL, Dell and many other companies try very hard to be proactive on educating people about what they should watch out for. However, with fears of litigation and the amount of computer novices still out there, even a big company like Microsoft can't effectively change the situation overnight.
When I originally installed one of the early versions of Kazaa, I had no idea from reading the EULA and installation pages that I was installing some other crap. They've gotten better with their install package, but I think they and other companies that "give" away software try desparately to hide other programs, whether spyware or not, and it's difficult for even advanced users to know what's being installed. I've recently found that even some mainstream sites are exploiting the Microsoft JVM bug to get there "browser helper" objects installed.
On my personal computer, I no longer even attempt to keep information on their that I would consider painful to lose. And as a result, a couple of times that I've had to completely start over from the restore CD, other than a little time lost, I haven't had any pain. This isn't the case for a lot of people, though.
In short, there is more to it than just getting it done. |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Damn Wimp-Ass Lawyers
This is the perfect example of tech companies getting bad advice from chicken-s**t lawyers who don't understand what's going on.
Any idiot who understands what spyware is and how it works can create a perfectly acceptable approach to dealing with it. It involves educating the user who is infected and giving them alternatives--so it's the user's choice, not the ISP's or computer supplier's.
Unfortunately, it appears the lawyers for some companies are incapable of producing that approach.
Either that, or Michael Dell is more interested in server revenue from spyware companies than he is in his company's good name....
Calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to garagerock
Re: Just the tip of the iceberg...
said by garagerock :
No need for apology; upon reflection, I did misunderstand.
As an IT professional for 10 years, I'd have to agree with elboricua that business users are less inclined to care about what ends up on their machines, as they have said IT staff to fix it!
Again, I misinterpreted your post. Sorry.
Hehe and the way they going all of them will be doing it remotely from india via there nice fat shiny 56k modems.
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This package does not contain a winner... |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| reply to calvoiper
Re: Damn Wimp-Ass Lawyers
Agree.
Cheaper to say "Not our problem". So much for customer service.
Plus, many companies and ISP's have relationships with these marketers, so you run into the idea of "we tagged X product as spyware" suits....or "you ruined X application by removing an important spyware tied product" problems....
Another instance where greed overules good service. |
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