borborpa
Slipping Slowly Into Oblivion
Premium
join:2002-02-20
New Cumberland, PA
clubs:
 ·Speakeasy
|  I don't get it...
"Consumer advocates, like Billy Jack Gregg, director of the West Virginia Consumer Advocate Division, aren't buying it. "We don't want any better descriptions. We don't want better labeling. We want these line items banned. Let the phone companies recover all of their costs in the prices they charge for the services they offer," said Gregg."
So basically, he'd rather just have the companies raise prices without showing any justification for it?? I'd MUCH rather see line items, that way I know what I'm paying for! I don't want SBC charging $50 for a phone line saying "it's our price with all the taxes and stuff figured in..."
As for USF recovery on DSL, the Bells have been doing it for years, it was only a matter of time.
--
There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.[AIM - BoyBandsMakeUGay] |
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djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
 ·PHONE POWER
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Don't worry, we're thinking of the customers
quote:
"I'm surprised that anyone thinking of consumers first would want to eliminate information that explains to consumers what those fees are for," says Jeffrey Nelson, a spokesman for Verizon Wireless.
Well, Jeffrey, that one's easy to explain. These fees always get tacked on without the base price being lowered to reflect its previous inclusion. For instance, some customers are stil paying the base $26.95 fee for SBC DSL. New customers who manage to wrangle the $26.95 price will still actually be paying more. If FUSF was part of the price before, why isn't the new price $24.95?
Itemize to your heart's content, but the final price is what should be advertised instead of the "base" price before fees. Otherwise DSL could become just like POTS telephone service: the actual monthly price so buried in fees that nobody will have a clue how much they're really paying until they get their first bill.
--
\\ROB - a part of the SCB local network |
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lefty1
join:2002-10-25
Clay, NY
| reply to borborpa
Re: I don't get it...
It's complete crap. If the cost is legitimate, let them include it in their advertised price. They can always offer an explanation for the increase when it's announced, but this borders on false advertising. It doesn't take a Harvard business graduate to see where this can lead if the practice is allowed to continue |
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djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
·PHONE POWER
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to borborpa
There's nothing wrong with line items, except that they're getting added on after the advertised price.
In other words, I don't care if my "$26.95" DSL bill looks like this:
HBC Standard Bronze DSL
---------------------
Transport charge: $13.95
ISP Charge: $10.95
FUSF Fees: $1.85
Office coffee fund recovery: 0.01
Office toilet paper fund recovery: 0.02
Electricity recovery fee: $0.18
Total: $26.95
I do care if it looks like this:
HBC Standard Bronze DSL
---------------------
DSL: $26.95
FUSF Fees: $1.85
Office coffee fund recovery: 0.01
Office toilet paper fund recovery: 0.02
Electricity recovery fee: $0.18
Total: $29.01
--
\\ROB - a part of the SCB local network |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to lefty1
said by lefty1  :
It's complete crap. If the cost is legitimate, let them include it in their advertised price. They can always offer an explanation for the increase when it's announced, but this borders on false advertising.
It is false advertising, and its only a matter of time before companies that do this get sued for it. I'm the last person to advocate the "there ought to be a law" solution, but any company that advertises the costs of its services should include any non-taxes as part of the advertised price, or advertise the complete price as the actual cost of the service.
When you go to the grocery store to buy something, you pay that price plus a sales tax. You don't pay the price, some BS fee and then the tax. Communications services should be no different.
--
Keep America Strong! Bush/Cheney 2004 |
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davebenham
join:2002-01-31
Round Lake, IL
| reply to djrobx
Re: Don't worry, we're thinking of the customers
You can't really advertise the "real" price of many taxed services/products such as telephone, cable, wireless, gas, etc. The final price will vary based on the amount of the taxes, which can vary based on location and actual usage. My wireless phone bill is different each month, because the taxes vary and are calculated based on usage.
It ticks me off, but the real solution to this problem is getting rid of all those unnecessary taxes. Come on, why on earth does my wireless bill pay the government 10+ bucks each month? |
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justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY
Host:
IPv6
Business Connectiv..
Home/Office setup ..
Console/Handheld g..
Console Tech
| reply to borborpa
Re: I don't get it...
wait, companies are free to put any advertisements on their bills they like:
this bill was 3 bucks more because the government charges us X Y and Z
the thing the consumer groups are rightly angry about is that the advertised price does NOT include the fees. In essence, this is FALSE ADVERTISING. Pure and simple. |
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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
| reply to borborpa
said by borborpa :
So basically, he'd rather just have the companies raise prices without showing any justification for it?? I'd MUCH rather see line items, that way I know what I'm paying for! I don't want SBC charging $50 for a phone line saying "it's our price with all the taxes and stuff figured in..."
Does this then mean you prefer advertisements like this:
Unlimited Long Distance only 1¢ a month!!*
*Not including $50 recovery fee, $25 USF tax, $25 because we can fee |
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justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY
Host:
IPv6
Business Connectiv..
Home/Office setup ..
Console/Handheld g..
Console Tech
| reply to davebenham
Re: Don't worry, we're thinking of the customers
You CAN advertise real prices (except sales tax - which everyone knows is added on). Where there are regional differences, and there are very few of those, the company just has to EAT IT, or raise advertised prices everywhere and MAKE A BIT EXTRA.
All national companies have operating costs that vary by state, and none of them, except telcos, feel the need to shove this cost variability into the face of the consumer and make it their problem, or increase the price per month later despite that YOU contracted with THEM to pay a certain amount per month.
Netflix: 19.95 per month! (except, well, in new york, we bill higher because our new york distribution place pays city state and local payroll taxes, and has tougher government regs, but if you live in florida, it is lower, because ... ) .. how stupid! |
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Varangian
join:2002-12-08
Collinsville, IL
|  BREAK UP S*C
When ma Bell was broken into smaller companies it was a response to the arrogant and non responsive attitude of the company toward its customers.
It was the correct decision.
Those companies have reassembled themselves into an exploitive entity far more savage and unresponsive than Ma Bell ever was.
Once broken up this time ther needs to be an absolute prohibition on any further merging between them.
It (merging) puts people out of work and brings pointless suffering to us all. |
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neftv
join:2000-10-01
Broomall, PA
·Broadvox Direct
1 edit | those damn fees
At least two organizations seeing it the way I think.
Mark Cooper of the Consumer Federation of America and
The National Association of State Utility Consumer Advocates (NASUCA), which represents some 43 state agencies, urged the FCC to ban such "fees".
What the hell are people so brainwashed to let the companies do this. They want these fees to end up costing as much as the service itself or even more. IF such a fee is really necessary then its the cost of doing business in USA, companies that don't like it go to another country. This is the business environment we create here in USA. STOP IT WITH THE FEEs Corporate America. WAKE UP!!
Anyone that agrees to these fees then I should be allowed to charge fees back as a consumer. To me when I see these fees on my Cell bill and seeing other companies doing this it's like a slap in my face. It's like I'm being punish for something the government is doing to the companies. |
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borborpa
Slipping Slowly Into Oblivion
Premium
join:2002-02-20
New Cumberland, PA
clubs:
·Speakeasy
| reply to djrobx
Re: I don't get it...
But here's the problem, there is a base price for DSL, then fees of top of it. The telco fees vary in different areas, so you could pay less than me in fees and taxes. The ISP's can't possibly advertise the correct pricing for every area, just like the bell's don't.
If you're going to bitch about this, make sure you bitch about your telephone bill too. Verizon told me that it's $25.95 for my phone service, but I pay another $10-15 or so in fees and such. I don't see why anyone isn't complaining about that too. Have you looked at your wireless bill ever?? It's the same way.
The difference is whether or not the ISP advertises that the price is before taxes and fees or not. As long as they say they charge taxes and fees on top of the price, it's OK. If there is no mention of it until afterwards, I take issue.
--
There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.[AIM - BoyBandsMakeUGay] |
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borborpa
Slipping Slowly Into Oblivion
Premium
join:2002-02-20
New Cumberland, PA
clubs:
·Speakeasy
| reply to n2jtx
said by n2jtx :
said by borborpa :
So basically, he'd rather just have the companies raise prices without showing any justification for it?? I'd MUCH rather see line items, that way I know what I'm paying for! I don't want SBC charging $50 for a phone line saying "it's our price with all the taxes and stuff figured in..."
Does this then mean you prefer advertisements like this:
Unlimited Long Distance only 1¢ a month!!*
*Not including $50 recovery fee, $25 USF tax, $25 because we can fee
That's a bit of an extreme example. No one is paying 10,000 times the advertised price for DSL.
For reference though, a few times a month I see advertisements for Columbia House, 5 DVD's for a penny...does that mean THEY are false advertising when they charge S&H on top of that?
--
There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.[AIM - BoyBandsMakeUGay] |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| No, but it does border on deceptive because you need to look at the fine print to realize that after getting your 5 DVDs for a penny, you are required to buy 5 more titles from them at their inflated prices (plus their inflated shipping costs).
--
-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/ |
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jne812
join:2003-10-13
Plano, TX
| reply to davebenham
Re: Don't worry, we're thinking of the customers
I don't have any problem with them adding TAX onto my bill, we all pay tax and understand it. If the fees are really Gov't mandated then I can accept those also since I know what they are for, but all of the fees that are added just to increase the telco's bottom line are the ones that I have a problem with. |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| reply to borborpa
Re: I don't get it...
What djrobx was saying (and I agree with him) is it's perfectly ok to have line items on your bill. In fact, I'd like to see where my monthly fee is coming from. But apart from sales tax, the total of the line items should be the advertised price. It shouldn't be advertised price plus some extras that we won't talk about until you get the first bill.
If they can't account for regional differences, then they should just advertise one price. Sure they would not be making as much in some markets, but in other markets they would be making much more.
And I do resent the fact that my ~$30 phone plan comes to ~$45 before I make a single call. I think the phone companies should be required to follow this as well.
--
-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/ |
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lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL
1 edit | reply to pnh102
I agree! If they are really loosing money on regulatory costs, then let them build it into their product prices and prove it to the regulatory agencies. I suspect the reason they haven't gone this route is they can't justify their claims.
Maybe the fee is to pay for their failed litigation, failed attempts to buy politicians and their anti regulation commercials. |
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rid0617
join:2003-07-20
Greer, SC
| Bellsouth added fees
I started out with complete choice. Every time they added a fee I disconnected an option. They have added enough that I am now down to nothing but a dial tone. Because I'm on disability my dial tone only is $9 and some change a month. The next step is disconnect and go straight to my cell phone. It at least has all the BS options and free long distance. |
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asdfdfdf
@xtraport.net
| False implication that usf reason for price rise?
According to dave burstein
"SBC is raising the basic DSL price to $31.87. The practice at SBC and Verizon has long been not to make USF a separate charge and include it in the fee quoted and advertised. In reality, not merely is there NO NEW USF to add, but the RATE PAID is going DOWN. Burying kickers like this in the fine print enrages customers and FCC Chair Mike Powell alike."
There is a quarterly contribution factor calculated.
»www.fcc.gov/wcb/universal_servic···ter.html
According to the wireline competition bureau release the
contribution factors for last year are as follows:
2q2004 8.7%
1q2004 8.7%
3q2003 9.5%
2q2003 9.1%
Does this not mean that the fcc/wcb is seeking no increase in usf contributions for 2nd quarter? In fact 2004 is showing a trend downward relative to 2003.
So it appears as if this increase in price is NOT a result of usf obligations, but is an attempt to raise prices while trying to reinforce in the mind of consumers the false notion that government regulation and the usf are the reasons for the price increase. They kill two birds with one stone. They get a price increase and they simultaneously misleadingly propagandize for their dereg agenda. |
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recrum
join:2002-09-10
Akron, OH | reply to borborpa
Re: I don't get it...
Either way they're going to get their money. Whether they add it to the base service price, or include by just increasing the base price. |
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