Dennis
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join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
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| The hunt for granny red
It strikes me as funny how large companies can find the time to hunt down programs designed to make their product interoperate properly (like mp3's were supposed to originally work), but nobody seems to be able to do anything about spam from overseas.
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"When you're right, nobody remembers, and when you're wrong, nobody forgets" |
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Sweet Witch
Be the flame, not the moth.
Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-15
Gallifrey | ??
What exactly did their program do that Apple hate (or fear) so much?
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I'm a woman by the way  . |
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Alphy
join:2001-12-31
Troy, MI | Nothing that couldn't already be done with a spare 5 minutes; taking AAC to Mp3 or just in most peoples case, burning an audio CD with the AAC files and then ripping the CD. |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA | reply to Sweet Witch
It took the DRM-enabled AAC music files that you can purchase from iTunes and ripped out the DRM restrictions. You would then be able to use the file any way you wanted to without worrying about any "3 computers only" limit. |
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russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| Apple's in left field
A quick perusal of the Indian law in question (yes, it's in English) reveals nothing to support Apple's position.
Hopefully the attorneys of the Indian website will see it that way too. Unfortunately attorneys are notoriously conservative and quick to say "don't"; if you want to do something opposed by another, you've got to have the balls to go ahead and do it and bring in your attorneys fight the battle. If you ask them for approval beforehand you'll always end up caving in. |
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kathan
join:2002-12-27
Lake Zurich, IL
| reply to Jason Levine
Re: ??
said by Jason Levine  :
It took the DRM-enabled AAC music files that you can purchase from iTunes and ripped out the DRM restrictions. You would then be able to use the file any way you wanted to without worrying about any "3 computers only" limit.
That was easy to do before PlayFair came along.
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If Bill Gates had a dime for every time a Windows box crashed...oh, wait a minute - he already does. |
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KeepOnRockin
Music Lover Forever
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Beaverton, OR | It looks like...
Apple's the one that isn't 'Playing fair'.
It seems that "fair use" is always the underdog to every company. |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| reply to kathan
Re: ??
said by kathan :
That was easy to do before PlayFair came along.
Yes, but PlayFair automated it to a degree. Then again, how can Apple cry foul over removing it's DRM from the file when their own program does the same thing by burning songs to a normal audio CD?
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-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
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Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost
| said by Jason Levine :
how can Apple cry foul over removing it's DRM from the file when their own program does the same thing by burning songs to a normal audio CD?
Because their program isn't removing the DRM from the files. It's just burning an audio CD. But the fact of the matter is, it's their program, and their TOS says that you can't do it with anything besides their program. |
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Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
| reply to KeepOnRockin
Re: It looks like...
said by KeepOnRockin :
Apple's the one that isn't 'Playing fair'.
It seems that "fair use" is always the underdog to every company.
Removing the DRM using a third-party program is against the TOS of the iTMS. What's so unfair? |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| said by Thinkdiff :
said by KeepOnRockin :
Apple's the one that isn't 'Playing fair'.
It seems that "fair use" is always the underdog to every company.
Removing the DRM using a third-party program is against the TOS of the iTMS. What's so unfair?
the that in order to pipe it to my stereo i need to put a pc beside my stereo/tv. Can't play anything on my other systems due to their fair use. I think i still got like 16 songs left on itunes from their pepsi promotion i used 150 + already on that site that showed where to dl from non riaa artists. Take that RIAA
I hate having to use 3rd party apps to use my music on other machines. Damn it i own the cds and now aac's legally. But hehe i will be killing the itunes account after this. Might as well just rip the rest of my cd collection. This sucks to surf itunes from a pc hooked to my tv 
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This package does not contain a winner... |
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netwire
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Mooresboro, NC | Thumbs up Apple!
I think Apple is very fair with iTunes, heck I moved from Napster to iTunes because of the freedom they give to their clients.
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Fact: AOL Cd's function best as drink coasters. |
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KeepOnRockin
Music Lover Forever
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Beaverton, OR
·Comcast
| reply to Thinkdiff
Re: It looks like...
said by Thinkdiff :
said by KeepOnRockin :
Apple's the one that isn't 'Playing fair'.
It seems that "fair use" is always the underdog to every company.
Removing the DRM using a third-party program is against the TOS of the iTMS. What's so unfair?
The unfair part is the "DRM" restrictions placed on songs that I have purchased.
These restrictions may keep other people from listening to my song, but it also keeps me from: transferring the song to multiple machines on my own network, it prevents me from playing songs whereever I want (iTunes on Linux or BSD anyone?), it limits the choices of portable digital music players I can buy (not all support DRMed iTunes files), and other lost "fair use" rights.
In my view, plunking down 99 cents for a song entitles me to do everything to it within the scope of my personal fair use that I want to, as many times as I want to.
But alas, I don't even use iTunes. I will still stick to free mp3s. Now and for always. |
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Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
1 edit | File can be found...if you know where to look
Playfair appears to have been spread on P2P networks. I
just found a download of the source code on Shareaza, in
two different versions. There are also BitTorrent files for
it being shared as well. Evidently some view this as a
David vs. Goliath situation, and will stick it to the man
(Apple in this case) no matter what.
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"Kayura or Badamon, whichever you are, you should know that I will never give up this battle. By the will of the Ancient, I shall succeed!" - Shuten (Anubis) from the Ronin Warriors. |
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Vvian Kalyss
join:2003-10-14
Stage 5.0
clubs:
| reply to KeepOnRockin
Re: It looks like...
Yeah... what I said earlier 
»Apple DRM Vs. Pirates
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" Her eyes were just the end of Hell-- / All pain, / Articulate " |
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kaila
join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL
clubs:
| reply to netwire
Re: Thumbs up Apple!
I agree with you, iTunes is the best out there so far. I believe however their creation of the DRM, and TOS were pretty much what the labels mandated for them to offer iTunes.
I would imagine they are acting as a proxy for the labels as far as raising a stink about PlayFair and trying to get it offline. It's either that or they [labels] revoke Apples distribution rights, killing off iTunes. |
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KeepOnRockin
Music Lover Forever
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Beaverton, OR | reply to Doctor Four
Re: File can be found...if you know where to look
I downloaded all the Playfair source files before the project was removed from India.
The files are small in size and can be traded easily |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| reply to KeepOnRockin
Re: It looks like...
said by KeepOnRockin :
The unfair part is the "DRM" restrictions placed on songs that I have purchased.
first off; You DO NOT own the music. You own a license that permits you to have a copy of the music and to use it for various purposes
said by KeepOnRockin :
These restrictions may keep other people from listening to my song, but it also keeps me from: transferring the song to multiple machines on my own network, it prevents me from playing songs whereever I want (iTunes on Linux or BSD anyone?), it limits the choices of portable digital music players I can buy (not all support DRMed iTunes files), and other lost "fair use" rights.
As far as I can tell there are no such "fair use" rights. From my Googling the only thing "fair use" consists of are a series of court decisions that set precedent that are then summed up in a list of uses that consumer and industry groups agreed upon should not be limited by copyright law. There are no such provisions that say that the industry cannot insert copy protections that prevent you from doing any of the things in the list.
You can't lose rights you never had.
said by KeepOnRockin :
In my view, plunking down 99 cents for a song entitles me to do everything to it within the scope of my personal fair use that I want to, as many times as I want to.
That may be your view; but your view is not the terms of service that you have to agree to, to use the service. And again there are no fair use rights that make this illegal as far as I can find. Therefore currently, your only remedy is to not use the service; purchasing songs and then cracking them is not a legal nor acceptable way to bring the service into compliance with your opinion.
And if you can find a site that outlines "fair use rights", by all means post it on one condition: Do not post a link to something like eff.org or digitalconsumer.org unless they site from something like a government website; I noticed a lot of sites refer to "Fair use rights" and then proceed to give their opinion of what they think the rights are without any proof to back up that such rights exist short of links to other sites that agree with them. I went into this looking for a list of what constitutes fair use as it pertains to consumer use of music and wound up only finding things that pointed to the lack of any such rights.
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Japan-- Now with 30% more climbable telephone poles!! |
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russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| said by Combat Chuck :
first off; You DO NOT own the music. You own a license that permits you to have a copy of the music and to use it for various purposes
You most certainly own a copy of the music. Apple even behaves as if you own a copy, allowing you only one download.
quote:
As far as I can tell there are no such "fair use" rights. From my Googling the only thing "fair use" consists of are a series of court decisions that set precedent that are then summed up in a list of uses that consumer and industry groups agreed upon should not be limited by copyright law.
Fair Use is in fact defined in a series of court decisions, but it is also contained in black-letter law. If you couldn't find 17 USC 107, you weren't googling very well. |
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WaxPhoto
I AM SAM
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Roanoke, IN
| reply to Combat Chuck
Re: It looks like... You're Ignorant
Source: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Use
Factors For Fair Use
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
1) Private home use (No commercial use)
2) Published, probably overplayed on the radio
3) AAC is pretty compressed - very small files
4) None whatsoever
Ok, #3 is probably not a valid point, but the other three are. Of course the record industry always has a way of lubing congress up to set up ridiculous exceptions... but hey, that is what the gov is for! |
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