 | | Hmmm... Well, lets see here. At least Microsoft doesn't seem to be acting greedy.
First Post | |
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 | | | Re: Hmmm... its a TRAP!!!
M$ is gonna catch the pirates with new code that allows them to go after the hacked versions.
watch out pirates....arrrrrrrrr | |
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| | Reviews:
 ·Frontier Communi..
 ·Wireless Beehive
| Re: Hmmm... quote:
M$ is gonna catch the pirates with new code that allows them to go after the hacked versions.
If that's true, then good for Microsoft. I paid good money for my copy of Windows, and I hate to see others get away withn stealing it. | |
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| | | | | Re: Hmmm... said by john262:
quote:
M$ is gonna catch the pirates with new code that allows them to go after the hacked versions.
If that's true, then good for Microsoft. I paid good money for my copy of Windows, and I hate to see others get away withn stealing it.
You actually PAID for a microsoft product? Which are you more of, dumb or paranoid? | |
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| | | | | | Re: Hmmm... said by Black_Flag:
You actually PAID for a microsoft product? Which are you more of, dumb or paranoid?
Honest?
Seriously, I paid for my two copies of Windows on both my Windows PC's, because they were OEM versions bundled with the system.
I'm all for information freedom and fair use, but pirating software is stealing. If you want a free OS, there's Linux, *BSD etc. | |
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| | | | |  Speedy8Premium
join:2002-08-22
Alliance, OH | Re: Hmmm... I actually have 2 real copies of XP pro I got from MS from retail training and such. But I admit I use the corp version instead because I hate activation. | |
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| | | | kmcheng
join:2002-02-12
Elmhurst, NY
kudos:1 | "dumb or paranoid"
LOL!!!!!!!!!!! | |
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| | | | | | Are you saying you're running a pirated Microsoft OS, Black_Flag? You have written your own OS? (Of course then who would be dumb or paranoid!) Or are you just another one of those Apple bigots who don't mind paying a 30 percent premium for an outdated system?!
Sheesh! | |
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| |  xdeadhead220, 221, Whatever It Takes.Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA | they have had that ability for a long, long time.
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I am not Herbert. | |
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1 edit | Re: Hmmm... said by xdeadhead:
they have had that ability for a long, long time.
Indeed, however, thay have not had the right to access the information, or to use it to catch users of priated copys of the O/S. . .
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I drive a Volvo, Please Don't Get In My Way!
I owe, I owe, 'tis off to work I go. . . . . . . . . | |
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| |  raydog1Feel SecurePremium
join:2003-07-10
La Vergne, TN | said by picasso1850:
its a TRAP!!!
M$ is gonna catch the pirates with new code that allows them to go after the hacked versions.
watch out pirates....arrrrrrrrr
"Well played. . . Well played." - Leonardo Leonardo from Clerks: Uncensored (2000)
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| | |  atuarreHere come the drumsPremium
join:2004-02-14
College Station, TX | Re: Hmmm... But imagine the sheer number of pirated copies of XP. Microsoft is not going to waste money to go after a few home users who were to cheap to pay for a license. You know how much money it costs to get a lawyer, and to get the courts involved.
Now, if there is someone, per se, that has a pirated copy of XP on one box, a pirated copy of office, a pirated copy of windows server 2003 on another box, and a host of other microsoft products, then yes, it is worth it, but you cannot justify the expense of going after one person, say a home user who was to cheap to pay for the license.
I agree though, I paid for both home and pro versions, and I feel everyone should, but in the world we live in, pirating is part of everyday life. We just have to deal with it. | |
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| | |  NerdtalkerWorking Hard, Or Hardly Working?Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ | said by raydog1:
said by picasso1850:
its a TRAP!!!
M$ is gonna catch the pirates with new code that allows them to go after the hacked versions.
watch out pirates....arrrrrrrrr
"Well played. . . Well played." - Leonardo Leonardo from Clerks: Uncensored (2000)
What a clever way to catch them. It makes almost perfect sense, all they have to do is throw something into their page at the very bottom in tiny text about it reporting pirated versions or such.
God that's scary.
Never Underestimate the Power of Microsoft
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Science-fiction yesterday, fact today, obsolete tomorrow. - Otto O. Binder | |
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| |  dddane
join:2002-01-10
Chicago, IL | I don't understand how its so hard to get a legal copy of XP without paying... ha!
no really... microsoft gives out their software all of the time, you just have to know which events to attend... in my case, my college had hundreds of copies to give out at one of the computer club's events. it was well advertised, you didn't have to be a member, and they told you they were giving you the software prior to you attending. microsoft co-hosts these events at every major university across the country. | |
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|  50970758The One And OnlyPremium
join:2002-02-28
mdzRghey | quote:
There are no indications of whether or not pirated copies will be allowed access to the Windows Update site or just allowed to install SP2.
They will, just give them a few hours.
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Why I'm looking for IT, Explained! | I'M Sorry, But That's Classified. | XXX | |
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| | | | Re: Hmmm... I am sure the pirates will download like most any network admin, go directly to the download site and grab the full version.
Windows update is great for newbies, but for those on dial-up it can really suck. I keep my family updated by bringing them a CD full of patches, updates, etc.
I don't really trust the windows update page anyway...can't convince me they don't see the majority of your register/files/etc.
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mdlt | |
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|  tcp1Premium
join:2000-04-17
Herndon, VA | If I see another winner say "First Post" on the Internet I think I'm going to invent some way to reach across the screen and slap that person.
Sorry to be harsh, but it's getting kinda old. | |
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| |  linuxPing 999Premium
join:2002-08-19
Clarence, IA
·NetINS
·Iowa Network Ser..
| Re: Hmmm... said by tcp1:
If I see another winner say "First Post" on the Internet I think I'm going to invent some way to reach across the screen and slap that person.
Sorry to be harsh, but it's getting kinda old.
:o Ouch!
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[b]MOS 31F - MOS 31U 1991-1999[/b] | |
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| | | | said by tcp1:
If I see another winner say "First Post" on the Internet I think I'm going to invent some way to reach across the screen and slap that person.
Sorry to be harsh, but it's getting kinda old.
First post.
Slap me and I'll slap ya back, son. | |
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| | Suprised... one more point to windows. | |
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|  insomxPremium
join:2003-01-26
Canada | Re: Caused quite a stir said by Nightfall:
On one side, you have the software pirates who didn't legally pay for the software, but want the patches. These people obviously didn't pay for it, so why give them access to updates and patches?
I am sorry to burst your bubble, but you can get updates if you have a cracked version. I should know from experience, you just have to spend an hour or so cracking it. The pirates who don't know how to get updates shouldn't be allowed if they are that dumb.
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»annoying.bounceme.net Of course, a creation just to annoy cousins and parents. | |
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| | | 11337845Live free or diePremium
join:2002-12-20
Seattle, WA | Re: Caused quite a stir said by Nightfall:
said by insomx:
said by Nightfall:
On one side, you have the software pirates who didn't legally pay for the software, but want the patches. These people obviously didn't pay for it, so why give them access to updates and patches?
I am sorry to burst your bubble, but you can get updates if you have a cracked version. I should know from experience, you just have to spend an hour or so cracking it. The pirates who don't know how to get updates shouldn't be allowed if they are that dumb.
I know this as well. However, the pirates that supplied this software to everyone didn't educate them as well on how to change the key to allow them to patch. You aren't bursting my bubble or anything here and it still doesn't change a thing to what I said. 
There's nothing to teach. If they have XP Pro, all they need is a corporate key and they're set. It's not rocket science or anything. | |
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| | | | insomxPremium
join:2003-01-26
Canada | Re: Caused quite a stir If you copy someone else's CD key, you can't get updates. If you use a coperate generator you do get updates, I agree, it isn't hard.
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»annoying.bounceme.net Of course, a creation just to annoy cousins and parents. | |
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| | | | | 11337845Live free or diePremium
join:2002-12-20
Seattle, WA | Re: Caused quite a stir said by insomx:
If you copy someone else's CD key, you can't get updates. If you use a coperate generator you do get updates, I agree, it isn't hard.
I just thought that was widely known. All these people are going on about cracking it and getting around activation, but anyone who knows what the hell they're doing is using a corporate CD Key. I know I am (To Microsoft: I own XP Pro, I choose to use a corporate CD Key to avoid the hassles of your ridiculous activation system). | |
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|  GNXPowerGot Boost?Premium
join:2003-12-18
Huntington Beach, CA | I would provide patches to unlicenses users ONLY when those patches are meant to control "propagation" problems. Bugs or other seat only issues, even if security issues shouldn't be patched for those who use the software illegally.
Personally I think MS should just have 2 versions of SP2. Those that update normally, and one that hoses any machine running Devil's Own serial. Sure it doesn't affect those using Keygens but those not willing to shell out $80 for an OEM license may think twice before doing it again.
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10.98@121 | |
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 TA63ST215WPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2 | Irony - look at the date on the article Has anyone else noticed the date on the article linked to in Computer Times?
1 day before the monster thread started in security...
May 5 2004!
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I killed all of your ugly smilies! Plain text smilies for me! | |
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|  OptimizedPremium,Mod
join:2001-05-03
Ringwood, NJ
RCN
Cellphones, Provid..
Other Manufacturers
|  Re: Irony - look at the date on the article
said by TA63:
Has anyone else noticed the date on the article linked to in Computer Times?
1 day before the monster thread started in security...
May 5 2004!
I saw that as well, wondering if that date was incorrect or how in the world so many have passed it over for days.
--
Chilly likes it | |
|
Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Who cares, I'm legit Any loser that has pirated the software can go to hell. I paid for my copy and it would suck if MS had to do anything special for the cheap bastards that would hold up the release for the paying customers.
--
Vote anything but... | |
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| | | Re: Who cares, I'm legit Well, yes. And no.
They probably aren't doing much. The security code(or whatever I'm no coder) will just have to be removed, shouldn't take more than a single day let alone a notiable release delay.
Also, if you are a pirate and have the WinXP Pro Corporate(if you were clever enough anyway) key. You can still use windows update cause there is no activation for the corper version.
Of course, SP1 didn't work for it cause of the FCK key, but hey, what're you gonna do? Just download each patch individually. Yeesh it's not that hard. | |
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| | | | Re: Who cares, I'm legit SP1 does work with Corp editions of XP pro, you need to "slipstream" the SP into the instal, from that you have full XP with SP1 on one CD.
M$ cannot stop you from using updates, I believe due to privacy issues when you are using Windows Update. It states clearly that "no personal info is transmited". Therefore so long as you have used a safe key all should work fine.
Do you want M$ to see your personal information???? | |
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| | | | | Re: Who cares, I'm legit said by JoshCloud9:
M$ cannot stop you from using updates, I believe due to privacy issues when you are using Windows Update. It states clearly that "no personal info is transmited". Therefore so long as you have used a safe key all should work fine.
Of course they can. Windows Updates works via a program that is downloaded to your computer. If they build the security into that program, and have the program detect if the version of Windows is invalid or not, they don't have to transmit anything. | |
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|  TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
1 edit | What I fail to understand is why anyone would get a illegal copy of the very heart of their computer system.
I know there are a gillion excuses most of which end in I hate Bill Gates. Well if you want a free OS go get one of the open source Linux programs. Oh, to lazy to do the necessary work to enable this OS to function in a Microsoft world, to bad.
--
"Remember when hacking a loogy
it comes not so much from the lungs but from the soul." | |
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See 21 replies to this post |
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|  M
@freedom2surf.net | I am also a paying customer who has purchased 2 copies of XP Pro for home use, however I can not blame anyone who copys the software as if vastly overpriced especially as no upgrade option from previous version of windows exist for any new releases of Windows. | |
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FlizeshPremium
join:2003-08-16
United State | ah well.. I think it's for the best.. | |
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|  lxAstrosxlPremium
join:2000-10-13
Carol Stream, IL
kudos:1 | Re: A kudo to MS for at least seeing the issues A good portion of the people using XP series has a copied illegal CD....maybe even more then half the users are illegal users...They make M$ look good, they are the REAL hero's. Godbless em! | |
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| | | | Re: A kudo to MS for at least seeing the issues said by lxAstrosxl:
maybe even more then half the users are illegal users
Absolutely no way in hell. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. The vast majority of Windows users are perfectly legal. Now if you want to talk about people on this site, that's a whole different story. | |
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| | | lxAstrosxlPremium
join:2000-10-13
Carol Stream, IL
kudos:1 | Re: A kudo to MS for at least seeing the issues said by Jeremy341:
said by lxAstrosxl:
maybe even more then half the users are illegal users
Absolutely no way in hell. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. The vast majority of Windows users are perfectly legal. Now if you want to talk about people on this site, that's a whole different story.
okay lemme rephrase that.....everyone I KNOW...from here....school....even my own friends....everyone has a burned copy of xp pro.....so it seems as if majority have pirated version. | |
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| | | | | | Re: A kudo to MS for at least seeing the issues Much better. Just realize that your group of people is not representative of the population.
It's just like how by reading this site, you'd get the impression that most people use a browser other than IE. In fact, alternative browsers to IE make up maybe 5% of the total market. | |
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| | | | | lxAstrosxlPremium
join:2000-10-13
Carol Stream, IL
kudos:1 | Re: A kudo to MS for at least seeing the issues i like IE....i useto use nutscrape...IE is much better. | |
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 dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
1 edit | Ya know what's sad... ...Ok, My Vaio came with XP so I'm as legit as can be, but getting the "fix" for an XP that is not legit is fairly simple. For kicks one day, I went searching for an activation key...no reason, just bored. There are several ways to cure the "patch problem". Nothing worse than being lazy. Using a bogus OS is one thing, not having the smarts to at least try and find a way to force it to be patched is just ignorance.
But hey, it keeps me busy. Cleaning out BS from from systems that are polluted with all kinds of crap(which BTW, is preventable). Legal or not, there are ways to prevent this BS, bummer. More money for me!
EDIT: spelling | |
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 TrelGood EveningPremium
join:2002-10-08
Hillsborough, NJ | don't forget Don't forget, just because a version of windows is pirated, it doesn't mean it still can't spread viruses and worms etc. Allowing patching of pirated versions will also keep some of the legit versions safe. | |
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|  sadowskiI Am My Own DoppelgangerPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-14
Buffalo, NY | Re: don't forget said by Trel:
Don't forget, just because a version of windows is pirated, it doesn't mean it still can't spread viruses and worms etc. Allowing patching of pirated versions will also keep some of the legit versions safe.
Fine, then to use that reasoning allow only security patches, no driver or application or feature set updates.
As for all the attempted excuses in this thread, a thief is a thief. Sell 'em elsewhere.
--
Bush Credibility Twister | Air America Radio | The Brights | |
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| | Hickerx2God Bless The U.S. Military
join:2001-03-04
Franklinville, NY | Re: don't forget said by sadowski:
Fine, then to use that reasoning allow only security patches, no driver or application or feature set updates.
Unbelievably...I agree with you
It doesn't seem that it would be very dificult for MS to have a "legit" and "illegit" update package at the WU site.
If you're "illegit", you get only the critical security updates.
--
Kerry for President? Is this Saturday Night Live? | |
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| | | | | Re: don't forget SP2 is a critical security update, including such things as an enhanced firewall (which will help for those friendly RPC viruses). | |
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|  redxiiPremium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
Sherwood, MI | Without a legit key you aren't supposed to even get to Windows Update (started with SP1 as well). It verifies it with the server but there are still keys that make it pass, unfortunately (for them that is). | |
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 WireHeadHayabusa EaterPremium
join:2001-05-09
Muncie, IN |  words words words MICROSOFT words words words..
For this there is no answer, MS is going to do nothing so I figure if I can get it on one or two machines that's pennance MS has to pay for me to deal with that crap. I'm glad I bought the one copy tho' and I would buy more copies for other computers, once they put the smackdown on.. until then it's a dog eat dog world and everyone, including MS, myself, legalaly licensed users, etc.. deserve what they get. It's only happening because it can.
--
Join BBR Team Starfire Team Q III and help the SETI project.
Put your unused clock cycles to work!
I refuse to tip toe through life merely to end up safely at death. | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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| | I hated the activation part I have the legit winXP (actually 2) but still use the pirated as legit asks me to activate and all that bullshit ... | |
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| | | Re: I hated the activation part i bet something is broken in SP2 and MS can't fix it on time so they need all the help they can get from you know who 
At this point, legit or not, i would avoid using MS patches.  | |
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| |  BIGMIKEPremium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA | Re: I hated the activation part I never activate windows and the new NORTON ANV 2004 and get all the update and support, the activation is BS there a lot of people that pay for the program and cant get it activate it , win you change hard where it will kill the activation , I got sick up calling Microsoft to get my windows activate will you place activate my windows . | |
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| | Saving their own Asses I know that Microsoft doesnt give a damn about the saftey of the users who use pirated copies of XP. They just want them to have SP2 so exploits wont be passed from their unpatched systems to the systems of legit unpatched copies of XP. | |
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 zoom3148SupermanPremium
join:2001-04-30
Yermo, CA | Automatic updating can be turned off in SP2 Automatic Software updating can be turned off in SP2, Just like one does with Windows Messenger(Not to be confused with WIM 4.x), As I was able to when I last had sp2 installed. The way to turn It off is at: Programs/Administrative Tools/Computer Management and then click on Services and It will appear there If You have It enabled in the settings for either XP Home or XP Pro. I can't remember which of the Services that handles It(updater?), But being It is a service It can be turned off.
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Charter Pipeline rules in Hesperia, CA, Verizon (ex-GTE) sucks... | |
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| | Microsofts Patch Microsoft has a perfect chance here. The hackers are letting them into their systems. Just add a small os style trojan to sp2 where the whole xp installation (if your key shows as invalid.) logs and reports certain files and ips to microsoft. Then after 30 days it reformats your whole computer. Can we say hope you have some serious backups. Imagine all of your drives formatted at 3 am without you knowledge and a blue screen of death telling you to get a life and quit hacking! Now that would be an appropriate patch! | |
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|  pleekmoTriptoe Through The TulipsPremium
join:2001-09-14
Manchester, CT
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Microsofts Patch said by IcePirate123:
Microsoft has a perfect chance here. The hackers are letting them into their systems. Just add a small os style trojan to sp2 where the whole xp installation (if your key shows as invalid.) logs and reports certain files and ips to microsoft. Then after 30 days it reformats your whole computer. Can we say hope you have some serious backups. Imagine all of your drives formatted at 3 am without you knowledge and a blue screen of death telling you to get a life and quit hacking! Now that would be an appropriate patch!
Unfortunately, Microsoft really can't do this because there is no assurance that only pirated editions of XP would be nuked. If just one legit copy of XP got nuked this way Microsoft could find itself in serious legal trouble itself. This would be especially true of that one user was a business entity.
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"[They] watch the bonfire mark the end of the Madman/They all watch the bonfire die into embers/They all watch the funeral morning glow./The Madman is dead./The dawn wind whispers:/'The Madman is dead.'"--S.C.Schumacher, "The Madman of Hamberton Swabe" | |
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phil999
join:2004-05-09
Naperville, IL | Lemmon Laws I paid for 3.11, several copies of 95’, several copies of 98’, 98’SE, and ME.
And all I got was disappointment, and false promises.
Now if you bought a car that worked about as well as previous versions of Windows did, then you are entitled to a new car in replacement. Or a complete refund.
M$ refuses to do either.
Instead, they patch the old one up until Hell won't have it. But it still won't work.
So after spending nearly a thousand dollars for failed OS's, I felt that XP was the replacement I deserved.
M$ promised me an operating system, but sold me crap.
And fixing it didn't work.
So my justification for using a free "Corp" copy is that by now I've given M$ way more than it’s OS is worth, and it's time they gave me what they promised me in the first place.
An Operating System that actually works.
I just can't imagine how they've gotten away with breaking the Lemmon Law for so long, without some high priced Lawyer taking them to court over it. | |
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|  keith2468Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB | Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Fool me once, shame on me.
Fool me twice, shame on you.
1. If you find it so inadequate, why have you purchased it so many times?
Obviously for the same reason as the rest of us -- you and me and nobody has written as good a product yet.
2. Since when is suseptibility to vandalism a product defect?
SP2 contains fixes to make the product more vandal resistant.
If you were waiting for Ford or GM to do a recall to install vandal-proof features on their vehicles you would be laughed at.
But asking nerds to fix your vandalism problems for free -- that is something you can con them into.
--
(Virus&Hijacking FAQ+Submit suspected malware+Security FAQ) | |
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| | | | Re: Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on said by keith2468:
Fool me once, shame on me.
Fool me twice, shame on you.
Its actually, Fool me once, Shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. | |
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keith2468Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
1 edit | Many generous with other people's money It is only wrong to give away or take away other people's property when you don't have their voluntary permission.
Living in highly taxed liberal Canada, I'm always amazed at how generous some folks are with other folks' money.
Many people here wanted warez users to be able to download the patch for free, but how many of those people would have donated their own money to fund that? No, that would be unthinkable. Rather it was only a good idea if Microsoft staff and shareholders paid for it.
It is Microsoft's property to give away if they want. It is a good charitable act on their part.
Should Microsoft be allowed to claim their charitable donation (to knowing warez users, and to victims of felonious computer retailers) as a charitable donation for tax purposes?
XP SP2 is a collection of updates to make the product more vandal-proof.
If you said you were waiting for Ford or GM to recall your car to fix the scratches and make it vandal-proof -- you'd be laughed at.
But nerds, we con them into fixing our vandalism problems at their cost. And we don't have a moral problem with our own actions. | |
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| | Microsoft doesn't want to lose the market If they cut off the free loaders, then those people would be forced to use a more complicated OS like linux. Once the idiots learn how to use that, microsoft could be screwed because they may have just lost a potential customer. The only reason I see people use illegal copies because they are in school and have no money. But when these people get into the real world, they probably will actually buy the OS. Although if they used linux, when they get into the work place they will want linux and microsoft could lose expensive business contracts. Then add in to the fact that a lot of businesses rely on windows for income. Its not unheard of for someone running an illegal copy of windows to go out and actually buy a game or two. But if they were on linux that of course wouldn't happen.
The RIAA needs to learn from microsoft. DON'T SCREW WITH POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS BY SUING THEM. YOU WILL LOSE THEM FOREVER. | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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| | how many does it take? Well, I got a copy of Microsoft Pro from my buddy and he got it from his buddy and he got it off of IRC. I guess thats what makes the world go round.:) | |
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|  spie34HmmPremium
join:2004-01-06
Boise, ID | Re: how many does it take? I have mixed feeling about all of this. I did have a pirated version at first. Then ended up buying a legit version of it. Of course at a great price of $9. Totally legit.
But the thing that can be done is put it on your machine activate it a week later put it on another machine call MS tell them you computer got friend and had to buy another one or something and you installed it there. Worked for me . Is it right? Nope. But I wasn't going to pay 140 bucks for another copy of it to put on a backup computer that I use once in a while when I screw up my main one and really need to get a project done.
I do also use linux as well. But there are just some apps that I can't find for linux that i need to use.
and back to the original topic somewhat. I think that all computers need to be protected. So a user that has a pirated version of XP is unable to update the computer and viruses worms and so on gets in there causing havoc across the networks that legit people are using. Is that right? Should the legit people have to pay for shitty internet service because some cheap jackass is using a illegal copy of xp and that copy is filling the networks full of unnecessary traffic.
There will always be people unwilling to pay for software. But the people that are willing to pay for it should not also have to deal with networks that are clogged and congested with traffic from worms viruses trojans and that sort coming from computers that are running illegal software and unable to update with patches. | |
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 Vamp5c077Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
kudos:1
1 edit | I might buy.. The next version of windows... The thing that stops me from buying windows is I am constantly changing hardware, and not going to waste my time with reactivating(what BS), I can change anything, can put my hd in another computer and it would still boot fine, and no activation screens.
you guys dont like it, to bad.
--
:: My current desktop :: | |
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 Spyder
join:2003-03-10
Thornhill, ON | There are always ways.... ...around everything. Even if MS didn't allow SP2 to be installed on pirated copies of XP, they would have found a way to bypass that. Look at SP1, MS tried to stop it from being installed on pirated machines, yet a way was found around it. | |
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A kudo to MS for at least seeing the issues
