willardk
Mod 2000-03
join:1999-12-02
Jackson Heights, NY
| if the pro DSL author lived in Verizon territory..
and tried to get DSL they would have burned the article and flushed the ashes down the toilet. DSL will fail...
why? because I think the Bell's will kill it either intentionally or unintentionally. It ain't a money maker for the Bells and never will be because its forcing them to clean and repair lines they never had to before the advent of DSL ....all the bad conditions of the lines are coming out of the woodwork now....
Already droves of disatisfied/rejected users are waiting, seeking and getting Cable.
Will
[text was edited by author 2000-10-10 15:37:03] |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| if they only knew.....
If they guy who wrote the article only knew about the problems DSL has just getting started then he would have not written that article. In NYC, CO's are full and have no openings and the wire is really bad. Where I am being 3/4 of a mile from a CO translates into 19,000 ft of copper. Go figure. Cable will win UNTIL DSL becomes stable and faster and cheaper with less hassle. |
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wesm
tmb.org
Premium
join:1999-07-29
Lewisville, TX
| COs are full and the lines are horrible in NYC for the same reasons the roads exhibit the same conditions: too many people packed into too small a space. In this case, the people are the customers seeking DSL, and the space is the capacity available.
Come to Dallas/Fort Worth sometime. You'll see that CO space is plentiful and most of the lines (that are within physical range) are perfectly qualified for DSL. Yes, getting DSL in NYC probably sucks like a vacuum cleaner, so people will go with the much-easier cable. However, in other areas, DSL will win because it has advantages cable can't or won't match (such as possible congestion). This isn't unheard of in the marketing world. Look at the difference in cell phone usage between the US and Europe.
--
Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are easy to annoy and have the root password. |
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OneDay0
join:2000-09-27
Selden, NY
|  DSL ?
As far as im concerned DSL is a fictitious technology
created by some other life form from the evil Planet Verizon.
It's sole purpose is to piss off the human race. And I know ( but can't prove it yet ) that behind the lousy music of those incredibly long hold times are subliminal messages
aka ( the Verizon mind melt ) to lul you into a warm
fuzzy stupidity. |
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djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
 ·PHONE POWER
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to willardk
Re: if the pro DSL author lived in Verizon territory..
I do agree that these articles largely missed the boat on DSL installation hassles. Unless I missed something, there was only a very small reference to distance limitations.
Based on my experiences with both technologies, I'm definitely a Cable fan. But I don't think DSL will fail, either. DSL vs. Cable is not like a VHS vs. Betamax, there's no reason why they can't both thrive in the same marketplace. And it looks like, for whatever reasons, the sales are fairly evenly divided between the two. That's a good thing, as long as both can be reasonably successful it only means more options for consumers. |
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asciirider
Premium
join:2000-07-25
Chicago, IL
clubs:
·EarthLink
|  reply to OneDay0
Now, on a positive note
Some of us *DO have decent DSL service. and Yes, if you live in a major metro area, especially like NY of course there's going to be problems(and I've noticed it's name it Verizon). But blaming DSL in general because of the phone company is like blaming auto makers for you being stuck in rush hour traffic.
Myself, I live in Chicago (within the city limits, not a suburb) and DSL was the first option for broadband available, we've only recently gotten cable net access here in my area of the city. Ameritech actually came out and did the work when scheduled, Covad did their work on time, and I've been running at around 1.3 mbps since it was installed and tweaked, with only about 10 minutes downtime in the 3 months I've had it.
Now, as for DSL going away, with the improvements they're making, such as increasing the max distance, eventually it may, but not for awhile, and not until something better comes along.
[text was edited by author 2000-10-10 21:22:01] |
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MiamiDSL
join:2000-09-25
Miami, FL
| I totally agree, me and my friend both live in MIAMI and regardless of the complaints, we both have very decent DSL connections and get about 1.2-1.3mbps, in 2 months time, we have only had about 1 day that DSL was out and it probably wasn't the whole day..... and yes, it is BellSouth !
DSL is very promising especially when more and more people began to experience it the way I have. |
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Omega_WA
join:2000-09-02
Norfolk, VA
| I agree. I live in a rural part of Washington State and have had excellent results with my GTE (Verizon) DSL. AT&T has been promising for the last 6 months that they would be here but they keep putting it off. Even if they were here today, I would never give up my DSL. |
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yazdzik
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-26
Honesdale, PA
·New York Connect
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to wesm
Re: if they only knew.....
[QUOTE=wesm]COs are full and the lines are horrible in NYC for the same reasons the roads exhibit the same conditions: too many people packed into too small a space. In this case, the people are the customers seeking DSL, and the space is the capacity available.
Dear Friends at DSLR,
There is also a very real problem in Manhattan, at least, in that, while fifty or one hundred dollars a month is a lot of money, in, let us say, Tulsa, where one's rent may be eight hundred dollars a month, in New York, basically, rents run between one thousand and fifteen hundred dollars, per room per month. Therefore, the difference between nineteen dollars for Dial-up, and forty-nine dollars for 608k ADSL, is invisible. That means, almost everybody in the better areas of Manhattan has or demands(New Yorkers do not simply want something )broadband access. Ironically, then, we have the worst service, since, when telephones came into being, we had the first lines. Likewise, DSL. We have serious capacity issues.
Then, logically, we are paid, because of the cost of living, more per hour, and the two minutes spent establishing a dial-up can be a substantial amount of money, per month, thence, even if one were to save merely two dollars per day, DSL would have to be sixty dollars more per month than dial-up before dial-up were cheaper. At that point, the forty dollar difference between dial-up and 1.5 DSL may not be invisible, but is meaningless. Simply put, DSL is cheaper than dial-up. There is no mystery as to why there are no pairs available. Wireless service also, particularly around stock market closing time is over-burdened. The communications needs of New Yorkers are almost unimaginable anywhere else, if for no other reason than sheer economics. When the city fathers granted cable monopolies, no one could have imagined that most people, not just a few, would require, not just want, broadband access. Until FTTH is universally available here, there is little competition for cable, as there is little room for telco based growth. There are many, many people who run NASDAQ level II screens all day, and, many, many people, who work from the comfort of their living rooms. Many of them making six or seven figure incomes!
Then, the costs of doing business here are yet another issue. Does any one here think that Bignet makes a profit on my DSL service? I am unsure, but I would guess not. I do not know their costs, but I know, approximately, how many man-hours I have spent with their set-up, service, and tech support people. If the total revenue from my year's contract is about $540, and I have spent about ten man-hours with them, at a cost of, conservatively $10 per, how cheap would the line have to be, and how reliable, before they had even a 2% margin. Is this typical?
I apologise if the narrative offend anyone, but meant it to let people see things that may not be immediately clear west of the Hudson, and the questions as to how we can establish, use, enjoy, and pay for, really good broadband access here and elsewhere are both intended seriously and sincerely put forth.
All good wishes,
Yazdzik |
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MexiCubAZ
join:2000-06-09
Phoenix, AZ
clubs:
| reply to Omega_WA
Re: Now, on a positive note
I just had a fellow IRCer lose their Cox cable account because they upload more than their 500MB/24hour period.
What type of crap is that? What is the point of going broadband if companies are going to terminate your because you are a power user and dl/ul too much? |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
| reply to asciirider
I also agree - I was one of the first in my small city (I actually live in Beavercreek, Ohio - not Dayton) to get DSL and it was in and running within 1 month of ordering. Not to mention that cable has been delayed 3 times in the general rollout to Dayton and its suburbs and will not be available until the middle of NEXT year - maybe.
--
Brian
CylonRed on Onlineracing.net
"This one goes to..... 11" |
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Anon | reply to willardk
Re: if the pro DSL author lived in Verizon territory..
I have to agree with the majority here. If cable internet were available at my residence I would have signed up right away. Now I am stuck with trying to get DSL, this is my third attempt. I understand cable can be installed in under a week. To me cable seems more available and much less of a hassle to install. And no I do not live in some major city like New York, where perhaps you could understand the problem of getting DSL. Its a hassle to get DSL no matter where you live. |
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Prairie Dog
Here's Looking At You Kid
Premium
join:2000-08-09
Langhorne, PA
| Sign me up for the cable is better camp
As far as I am concerned the only reason to go with DSL and go through hell trying to get it, is the fact that DSL is the only thing available. Thanks to Verizon and the rest of the bells, DSL will most likely go the way of the beta max video recorder and the eight track tape system. |
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Freezone
join:2000-09-29
Southfield, MI
| reply to MexiCubAZ
Re: Now, on a positive note
A similar thing happened to me. I went from the big brother (scanning all my ports for open servers and the like  ) cable company to the freedom of DSL. The best thing the cable company ever did for me was to dump me.
On a side note I wonder how long the cable companies memories are on dumping users. After say 30 year will they remember? After acquisitions will they remember? Lets say you move to another cable company and there is a merger will they compare records and start dumping users? Until cable systems become more open, they can treat you any way they want to. Where as I have at least 10 options(for abuse )with dsl. |
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Motorhead5
join:2000-06-05
Woodside, NY
| reply to wesm
Too many cooks...
DSL will fail because there are too many companies involved, each with its own share of flaws and problems, each competing directly with one another for some or all aspects of service, and none with any reason (or sense) to work with one another. A DSL installation/line/account is like a chain: if one link breaks (i.e., any one of the companies one is forced to deal with), the whole thing is useless. It's easier for one company (cable) to improve its service and performance than it is for three or four (any of those involved in DSL). And, as such, there is a much lower probability that the DSL companies will each get their acts together collectively than for any cable company to do the same.
[text was edited by author 2000-10-11 03:47:19]
[text was edited by author 2000-10-11 05:35:45] |
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ghost446
join:2000-09-18
Coraopolis, PA
| reply to asciirider
Re: Now, on a positive note
I have to agree as well. I live in an older, establish section of the suburbs. The phone people (Bell/ Verizon) actually ran a whole new wire from the CO to my house (1800 ft.). My connection has been fast and reliable so far. I also think that if I were to have any problems, it would be because my ISP (Flashcom) sucks. The actual DSL technology wouldn't be the problem, so you really couldn't blame it. Once it's connected you're in. Getting it to that point is a whole new animal best eaten one small piece at a time. I also must admit that at the time, had cable been available, I would have chosen it over DSL. If cable were to become available now, I'm not so sure I would make that switch.
--
Everything is fun and games until someone loses an eye |
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AHBAC
join:2000-06-12
USA
| reply to MexiCubAZ
said by NJRammy:
I just had a fellow IRCer lose their Cox cable account because they upload more than their 500MB/24hour period.
Never have to worry about doing that with DSL, odds are you'll never stay up long enough to complete a large upload at those blazing speeds! LOL
--
keep those FCC complaints coming »www.fcc.gov/cib/ccformpage.html The artist formerly known as ANOTHERHAPPYBACUSTOMER |Leader of the Lollipop Gang |
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wheelert$93
T L C
ExMod 2002
join:2000-06-01
Lynden, ON
| reply to Freezone
I can't see where one can complain if they break the ToS and get dumped for it. However, if it wasn't in the ToS, I don't think my account would have been disconnected for very long.
--
"Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings. They did it by killing all those who opposed them." |
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tpotter9
join:2000-07-21
| reply to Prairie Dog
Re: Sign me up for the cable is better camp
I have both. DSL speeds tend to be stable. Cable speed
goes up and down in sharp peaks and valleys. I thought
the telco support was stupid until I tried the cable
support.
DSL will become the primary source for access. No way
the telco's will walk away from a multi-billion dollar
investment.
What will fail is the third party leeches who try and
resell DSL. The telco will stomp them like grapes.
Does anyone here recall installing multiplexer's over
a dry pair ? eh kids ?
What you see now is the bleeding edge, hyper-marketing,
don't give a s*it make a profit syndrome. Ma and Pa will
suffer the brunt.
Of course who cares ? forward looking people are waiting
to tap the fiber at the b-box next week. |
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MexiCubAZ
join:2000-06-09
Phoenix, AZ
clubs:
| reply to wheelert$93
Re: Now, on a positive note
Wheelert: problem is that in the original TOS it never mentions a daily upload limit. Companies should inform you of changes to the TOS to let users know what is going on.
This reminds me of PhoenixDSL killing usenet without letting users know about it. I am still waiting to see official word as to the situation with usenet. |
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