acadiel
Keep trying - don't give up
Premium
join:2002-06-22
Bloomington, IL
 ·Comcast
 ·DSL EXTREME
|  Yeah, if you want to rewire....
I'm sort of curious as to *if* Cable Companies had to share how they would go about it.
DSL is easy - you have one pair of wires that belong to your line from you all the way to the central office. It can be split and the data portion go to a CLEC's DSL service while the voice goes to the ILEC's switch.
Cable - you're on a shared network. You don't have a single cable that goes from you to the head end. You have "nodes".
I suppose they theoretically *could* have a competitor's ISP, but they would have to rewire the whole headend and re-do the nodes. Man, that would probably be a mess.
Of course, Earthlink might just be wanting Cable Companies to resell their service to them at wholesale (and avoid this whole infrastructure mess) and sell it for a profit. Does this sound familiar? Yep... all the Baby bells have been complaining about CLECs buying wholesale UNEs for a long time. The competition and all the rulings recently on line-sharing have seemed to be impending doom for the CLECs. So why would the FCC force cable to share when there has been a tendancy for the FCC to move towards non-line sharing on regular phone networks? |
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mdurkin
join:1999-08-11
San Bruno, CA
| This isn't about CLEC sharing, it's about ISPs accessing the existing cable modem transport. There is no rewiring involved, it's a logical connection much like an ATM PVC is used to choose which ISP your DSL line is connected to over say Covad's or SBC/ASI's last-mile DSL service. Technically it's not a problem to implement ISP choice. |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
·AT&T Southwest
1 edit | ...And we expect Cable companies to invest in DOCSIS 2.0 ??? Only to have to share it at wholesale rates??? There is a basic flaw in imposed line-sharing. Our form of government lacks the final Fascist or Communist force needed to make it work. Assuming we prefer Free Market Capitalism and the innovations thereof -- then line sharing is simply out-of-touch with market realities (witness UNE changes and Verizon's FTTP deployment).
Now, if the taxpayers are serious -- we should be providing infrastructure -- which to share among competitors. Taxpayer's seldom choose to "put their money where their mouth is" though. |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| said by ronpin  :
Taxpayer's seldom choose to "put their money where their mouth is" though.
Oh so true. Such as folks don't want their tech support shipped overseas but don't complain when their prices get cut and half at the same time.
--
"Affluence separates people. Poverty knits 'em together. You got some sugar and I don't; I borrow some of yours. Next month you might not have any flour; well, I'll give you some of mine." - Ray Charleshttp://www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs: | Correct header?
Is the name of this article suppose to be "Brand X Appeal" or am I missing how the name relates? |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Alternate Strategy
Earthlink and Brand X could have spent all the money they are wasting in legal fees and invest in building their own networks. Why do they think cable companies owe them anything? |
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ruscorp
I Never Stop Posting For You
Premium
join:2002-08-29
Earth
clubs: 
| said by pnh102 :
Earthlink and Brand X could have spent all the money they are wasting in legal fees and invest in building their own networks. Why do they think cable companies owe them anything?
I don't they Earthlink is *owed* anything as an EL Cable customer. However I resent the fact (and this is the only time I will defend the baby bells) that the bells have to share their lines while cable companies don't. Why can for example does Charter have a monopoly on the cable wires yet Verizon is compelled to share with AT&T, IDT, COVAD, etc?
I'm all for competition, let's keep it fair though. If the ILEC's have to do it, so do the cable companies....
....electric companies, gas companies, etc. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by ruscorp :
However I resent the fact (and this is the only time I will defend the baby bells) that the bells have to share their lines while cable companies don't.
The only reason the telegraph companies have to share their lines is because they pushed for and got passed into law the Telecommunications Act of 1996. Ergo, they asked for it, and now they got it, and now they don't like how it tastes. The cable companies never asked for any such laws, and TA 1996 does not apply to them, so you can't apply the "fairness" doctrine in this case. Furthermore, cable companies paid for their facilities only with the money they got from willing subscribers. No one was forced to subsidize them in any way, so you can't apply the "entitlement" doctrine here either.
said by ruscorp :
Why can for example does Charter have a monopoly on the cable wires yet Verizon is compelled to share with AT&T, IDT, COVAD, etc?
Where I used to live, a second cable company (originally Telebeam, now Conestoga Communications) ran its own cables and started competing head to head with what was then AT&T Cable. Earthlink has cash, they could easily do the same thing if they wanted to.
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
1 edit | reply to acadiel
Re: Yeah, if you want to rewire....
said by acadiel :
I'm sort of curious as to *if* Cable Companies had to share how they would go about it.
DSL is easy - you have one pair of wires that belong to your line from you all the way to the central office. It can be split and the data portion go to a CLEC's DSL service while the voice goes to the ILEC's switch.
Cable - you're on a shared network. You don't have a single cable that goes from you to the head end. You have "nodes".
I suppose they theoretically *could* have a competitor's ISP, but they would have to rewire the whole headend and re-do the nodes. Man, that would probably be a mess.
Of course, Earthlink might just be wanting Cable Companies to resell their service to them at wholesale (and avoid this whole infrastructure mess) and sell it for a profit. Does this sound familiar? Yep... all the Baby bells have been complaining about CLECs buying wholesale UNEs for a long time. The competition and all the rulings recently on line-sharing have seemed to be impending doom for the CLECs. So why would the FCC force cable to share when there has been a tendancy for the FCC to move towards non-line sharing on regular phone networks?
I wrote a patent application for one of the major players in this area several years ago where they taught one way of doing this. I don't know if it issued or whether they even pursued it after the initial filing. But, be assured that companies are working on this solution.
You could probably do a search at the PTO website on issued patents and applications to see what's out there. I'd be willing to bet there's at least a few different ways of doing it, particularly given digital cable and digital cable boxes. |
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acadiel
Keep trying - don't give up
Premium
join:2002-06-22
Bloomington, IL | reply to mdurkin
I know it isn't about CLEC sharing - it was only a parallel that I was trying to bring up.  |
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ruscorp
I Never Stop Posting For You
Premium
join:2002-08-29
Earth
clubs:
| reply to pnh102
Re: Alternate Strategy
said by pnh102 :
Where I used to live, a second cable company (originally Telebeam, now Conestoga Communications) ran its own cables and started competing head to head with what was then AT&T Cable. Earthlink has cash, they could easily do the same thing if they wanted to.
You're one of the lucky ones. We don't have a choice with cable here. It's either TWC or satellite (there's always bunny ears.) |
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
1 edit | reply to ruscorp
If the cable companies must share at wholesale rates, further investment in expansion and speed improvements will slow dramatically. Just like dsl has been slow to move into rural areas, where the telcos do not want to invest and then have to turn the lines over to the clecs. Verizon is deploying fiber only where they do not have to share with others because forced sharing greatly reduces the incentives to invest in the infrastructure. Now if broadband had been setup so that last mile was utility and the last mile providers were prohibited from suppling isp content and features and could only wholesale out the connection, this would not be an issue.
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Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812 |
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MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
| Report commisioned on cable network sharing:
When anyone brings up cable sharing its networks, I always find this an interesting read:
Independent technical report commissioned by the ACLU and conducted by Columbia Telecommunications Corporation: Technological analysis of Open Access and Cable Television Systems (PDF, 2.4 megabytes)
To just share the internet access requires reconfiguring some gear in the headends and connecting the other ISPs network to the "incumbent" providers network at some point.
Providing a second cable TV channel line up is quite a bit different and usually requires a second "overbuilt" cable plant up on the poles.
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russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA | And of course, cable companies (like telcos) often have sweetheart deals with municipalities to keep competing cable companies out. Cable choice is only in place in a small part of the country. |
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MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
2 edits | said by russotto :
And of course, cable companies (like telcos) often have sweetheart deals with municipalities to keep competing cable companies out. Cable choice is only in place in a small part of the country.
And just as often cities turn down overbuilders because they don't want all the extra equipment hanging around.
But more often then that most places don't have overbuilders because there isn't a good chance to make any money in it...
The take rate for a single cable company isn't anywhere near the 95% or greater phone companies have. Some areas may hit 50%, but it really depends on the area. Rural areas tend to be much lower, even if they're setup to service almost everybody in an area.
Lets see, provide coverage to almost 100% and get a theoretical 30% subscribtion in an rural area... Now build a second plant. Now two companies are at almost 100% coverage and have to fight over that 30% that are subscribing to one. They may get a little more, but not likely. When does that second builder expect to break even? Not for many years, if ever.
Multiple ISPs don't need overbuilt cable plants, so they are much more lucrative.
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | reply to russotto
Some companies are also putting lines underground and splitting them off at the node above ground. Thats the way its done in my area with a lot of the nodes. |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:
 ·LINGO
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·surpasshosting
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to acadiel
Re: Yeah, if you want to rewire....
said by acadiel :
I suppose they theoretically *could* have a competitor's ISP, but they would have to rewire the whole headend and re-do the nodes. Man, that would probably be a mess.
There's nothing theoretical about it.
Earthlink Cable Internet powered by Comcast has been around for a long time, albeit in limited areas. |
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feller
@drizzle.com
| reply to hottboiinnc
Re: Report commisioned on cable network sharing:
There are other underlying issues related to this. It's not that the cable companies dont have to share with the other kids. There is a lot of money involved, as well as a legalized erosion of your 'privacy'. Heck, 'hackers' spy on us less than our own regulatory agencies.
>>>
Quoted from »www.modemsite.com/56k/voip.asp
The public policy issues are huge: Billions and billions of dollars are collected today in the USA from taxes, fees and surcharges on telecommunications services: the Universal Service (Slosh) Fund, Federal Excise Taxes, Line Cost Charges, etc., etc., etc. A VoIP provider must purchase access to the public switched network in order to allow you to make calls - so, look for a fight as the players try and lay down rules to catch up with technology. The phone companies will fight for regulation of VoIP providers to protect their turf, as VoIP argues for a chance to compete.
End Quote:
>>>
Quoted from: »www.linuxinsider.com/story/35556.html
>>
The (»www.fcc.gov) Federal Communications Commission plans to propose a ruling today that would require Internet-based phone and broadband services to design their networks so they can be easily wiretapped, two FCC officials say.
The move is designed to resolve the Justice Department's fear that FCC plans to deregulate broadband could keep the FBI from monitoring the communications of criminals and terrorists, FCC officials say.
That's not an issue for most phone calls. The Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) requires "telecommunications" carriers to make their networks wiretap-friendly.
But the law exempts "information services." And in 2002 the FCC ruled that cable's broadband offerings are information services. It also plans to put phone-company DSL services in that category.
>>>
End Quote
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | reply to halfband
Re: Alternate Strategy
The last mile provider should provide fiber as well. Lease it to Cable, Telephone, Internet, and what ever else can use the fiber for. |
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Count Hogula3
John Forged Kerry
Premium
join:2004-07-10
Corona, CA
| reply to JTRockville
Re: Yeah, if you want to rewire....
Good thing I read the entire thread 'cause I was going to say the same thing. A lot of markets have this already. Time Warner gives you the choice of I think RCI, Roadrunner, and ELN. ATTBi had ELN in some markets like I think Seattle which Comcast honored when ATTBi was bought out.
They obviously can do it. They just obviously don't wanna do it.
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