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Comments on news posted 2004-09-16 13:08:44: (Updated) IP Relay services are intended to allow the hearing impaired the ability to communicate with phone users via the Internet. ..


yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Miamisburg, OH
kudos:3

Prank Calls enter the 21st century

Looks like kids today don't have the backbone to make a prank call themselves. =)
--
Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
swiftymc

join:2004-02-15
Mansfield Center, CT

Re: Prank Calls enter the 21st century

HAHA....its far from that, Ive used these relay ops myself on multiple services....If you ever get a prank call ending with someone mentioning...wPCR, that would be my group

P.S. These relay ops are hilarious, sometimes they play along.

micl
Visit Lovely Downtown Port Starboard
Premium
join:2001-10-25
Silver Spring, MD

Re: Prank Calls enter the 21st century

said by swiftymc:
P.S. These relay ops are hilarious, sometimes they play along.

But the operators are required by law to "interpret" everything that a party says. Most of the ops I know hate it because they know what is going on, but are prohibited from saying anything because all they are allowed to do is act as the relay.
--
If I don't see you in the future, I'll see you in the pasture

Voyager2K2

join:2001-10-04
Wayne, PA
said by swiftymc:
HAHA....its far from that, Ive used these relay ops myself on multiple services....If you ever get a prank call ending with someone mentioning...wPCR, that would be my group

P.S. These relay ops are hilarious, sometimes they play along.

Great.
Now the Feds know who to come after for abuse.
How old are you?
swiftymc

join:2004-02-15
Mansfield Center, CT

Re: Prank Calls enter the 21st century

said by Voyager2K2:
said by swiftymc:
HAHA....its far from that, Ive used these relay ops myself on multiple services....If you ever get a prank call ending with someone mentioning...wPCR, that would be my group

P.S. These relay ops are hilarious, sometimes they play along.

Great.
Now the Feds know who to come after for abuse.
How old are you?

lmao....you think a confession on here would hold up in court?

yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Miamisburg, OH
kudos:3

Re: Prank Calls enter the 21st century

His sarcasm appears lost on you, and you miss his implication. I don't believe any amount of sternness people take with you will let you see how asinine what you're doing is, but trust me when I tell you taking advantage of a service like this is morally despicable.
--
Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
swiftymc

join:2004-02-15
Mansfield Center, CT

Re: Prank Calls enter the 21st century

to each his own

keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB

Re: Prank Calls enter the 21st century

I trust no woman finds you fit to reproduce with.

Arnold Nonymous

@utdallas.edu

Re: Prank Calls enter the 21st century

Ah yes, we're always happy to dispense with the ad-hominem arent we?
BigTexan

join:2003-09-14
Burkburnett, TX
I think it is sad when someone uses a service for the disabled to act like a idiot.Please quit abusing the system or one day there may not be a system for the hearing impaired.This is a service the gov pays for.And the money hungry execs at the phone company's don't care if the call are real or not they still get pay-ed.But the operators have to put up with the scams,and idiots who think it is funny to talk dirty and hear someone repeat it.
I hope and pray that any one abusing this service gets tons of spam in there mail box,get calls from telemarketer all night long.Grow up and live life don't waist your time doing prank calls to this service.
P.S. These relay ops are hilarious, sometimes they play along.

I used to be a relay op, and I can assure you, we were forced to play the role of amused college kids.

For the most part, we thought you were fucking cunts.

keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB

1 edit

Waste of taxpayer money by pranksters

I suppose the FCC officials figure it isn't their money, and none of the people whose money it is are complaining, so why take action.

When you think of the size of fine people are stuck with for parking in handicapped spots -- and the FCC just lets this happen.

Write your elected federal officials.

And why aren't these telephone companies being prosecuted when they support fraud, if that is the other thing going on?

keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB

Re: Waste of taxpayer money by pranksters

I received an IM from relay operator that said their employers can't be sued because they aren't the ones making the phone call.

But their employers are the ones billing the government for the prank call. And is not billing the government for an obvious prank phone call mis-representation to the point of fraud?

If it isn't it should be.

And of course the calls maker too should be sued or prosecuted, because yes, it is the individual making the call that is the ring leader in the crime.
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(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC)

RelayOpr

@rr.com

Re: Waste of taxpayer money by pranksters

We are not, by law, forced to "interpret" what you type. All we have to do is read it and have some minimal voice inflection. If an operator you have sounds like he/she's enjoying it, it's only because they are gritting their teeth, getting your damned call over with, and talking to their other operator friends about what a limp-wristed shit head you are when they get off the line.

Of course you think you're clever. But everyone around, including the person you call are generally thinking what a Special Ed case you are since you are only the 4,981,875,108,138th person to come up with this, but yet to hear how you talk, you'd think you invented the fucking telephone. If you hear an operator laugh, it's because they can't believe how unbelievably stupid you are... not laughing with you, trust me.

Think about this the next time you call... Some of the girls are cute...some are not. And you can't tell by voices. Some of the "girl" voices you hear are possibly not girls at all. Oh, and let's not forget how when you call yourself, some operators have no problem with putting your number on a phone number list. Yes. There is one out there with prank caller's numbers listed on the web where pissed off relay operators have a free crack at it. And no, I'm not saying where it is.
swiftymc

join:2004-02-15
Mansfield Center, CT

Re: Waste of taxpayer money by pranksters

said by RelayOpr:

Oh, and let's not forget how when you call yourself, some operators have no problem with putting your number on a phone number list. Yes. There is one out there with prank caller's numbers listed on the web where pissed off relay operators have a free crack at it. And no, I'm not saying where it is.
Ever hear of op diverting?
Tracing the call for the # even by police requires a court order.

Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
kudos:5

reminds me of this

»[it's cool] Poor IP Relay operators...

delt4
Congrats BUCCOS
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1

Nigerian Scammers?

Why would those ip relay operators want to knowingly push a scam from a 3rd world shitbag? I can see pranksters, but scams?
swiftymc

join:2004-02-15
Mansfield Center, CT

Re: Nigerian Scammers?

They have NO choice whatso ever what they are saying, they are only allowed to read what the person types in...
When ive used these relay ops before, trust me...ive made them say some crude things just for kicks and they didnt hesitate for a second

m7dt428

join:2004-02-16
West Chester, OH

Re: Nigerian Scammers?

lol^^^ i did too
Fudus

join:2001-12-02
philippines
Most Nigerian spam isn't from Nigeria, it's much more likely it is a US based spammer using open relays in asian countries.

They use Nigeria as the name to make it look more authentic for potential prospects.

TheMadSwede
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Holland, MI

Re: Nigerian Scammers?

said by Fudus:
They use Nigeria as the name to make it look more authentic for potential prospects.

Oh yeah - because when I see Nigerian, I think, "The real deal".
--
Bipartisan politics has become a tallest midget contest.

roamer1
sticking it out at you

join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
said by Fudus:
Most Nigerian spam isn't from Nigeria, it's much more likely it is a US based spammer using open relays in asian countries.
I know someone who worked in Nigeria for awhile and a lot of the 419 spams indeed comes from Nigeria, from people sitting in Internet cafes all night. (The person I'm thinking of once mentioned in his blog or an email at times being the only person *not* sending out 419s in an Internet cafe!)

-SC
--
"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend

No-Bull SE US Wireless Info: »www.sewireless.info/
Atlanta Apt/Condo Cable & Broadband Info: »www.atlaptcable.info/

keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
I know there is a lot of xenophobia in the US, but Nigerian scams really do still mostly come from Nigeria and Nigerians abroad.

Even the Nigerian government admits it is a big problem for them. Imagine being a legitimate business based in Nigeria and trying to do business abroad.

The non-racial term for the Nigerian scams is "advance fee scams" or "advance fee fraud", because they are scamming you with an advance fee for something that never appears. They are also called 4-1-9 scams, but that is still racist because it refers to the part of Nigerian penal code that is broken by these scams.

»www.google.ca/search?sourceid=na···nt+scams
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(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC)

The Beer
I Love It When A Plan Comes Together
Premium
join:2001-07-24
Atlantic, IA

Pizza Orders Via Relay

There is nothing worse than Friday night in a pizza joint and hearing the words when you answer the phone "Hello this is operator number 8675309 with the nebraska tty relay, have you ever had a relay call?" waste a line and 20+ minutes of your time.
swiftymc

join:2004-02-15
Mansfield Center, CT

Re: Pizza Orders Via Relay

20 minutes? dont tell me you stick around and pay attention to the call...
akar

join:2004-07-12
Somerset, NJ

Re: Pizza Orders Via Relay

so you are saying that its a waste of time and 20 minutes when you receive a call from someone who cannot verbally communicate but is taking their business to you?

being a person myself who has to use this every once in a while, i become a loyal and repeat customer to a business that understands my special needs and accomadates me.
Davros866

join:2001-07-23
Houston, TX

Re: Pizza Orders Via Relay

Order pizza online. It makes life easier for everyone, and your order won't get taken down wrong.
forgetmenot7

join:2004-10-31
Memphis, TN

Re: Pizza Orders Via Relay

Sometimes i wonder about people like u. Maybe if u wld stop acting like a dumb ass and PAY ATTENTION to the call and the explination and remember to use the proper verbage at the end maybe it wouldn t take so fucking long. If u listen to the explination and remember to use the proper verbage at the end maybe it wouldn t take 20 mins to process the call. It s people like you that make the call difficult, jack ass.
mrbofh

join:2003-05-14
Reddick, FL
He probabaly said that cause 99% of the calls are pranks.

The Beer
I Love It When A Plan Comes Together
Premium
join:2001-07-24
Atlantic, IA
You missed my point... Go ahead

I am all for getting another order... Go Ahead
I'm all for accommodating needs... Go Ahead

What I am not for is being a tad ignorant... Go Ahead
For example asking what the specials are THEN saying they have a coupon for less. Why not just order the coupon item. Go Ahead

Expecting us to read the entire menu. go ahead

Forcing unneeded information on us, we and 99% of every delivery pizza shop knows everyone's address just from your phone number, if you tip we know all about the big green bushes in front of your house, and the chevy in the driveway. just let us ask if it has changed. go ahead

Please, Please, PLEASE do not call at 5:30 on a Friday, A "Voice" order can be done in topically less than a minute, a tty order is always 20+. go ahead

Try online, Fax, or just call before 5, be somewhat "accommodating" to the pizza joint.
akar

join:2004-07-12
Somerset, NJ

Re: Pizza Orders Via Relay

i understand your frustration but some if not most pizza shops do not have a fax (or website) or have that info readily available in a phone book ad. we "communications disabled" do get hungry after 5, even after midnight.
and as far as me being accommodating, well i guess the only way that i can accommodate your pizza shop is not order from, or recommend you to others at all.

i just don't think you fully understand how hard it is for people that are disable period.

maybe you have someone in your family that has a disability. you would want for people to be understanding of their situation at least wouldn't you.

god forbid a blind person came in and asked you what your specials where, while standing next to a sign that had the specials of the day written on it. you likely get asked a million times from people that are not blind or that can read perfectly well, ask you what the specials are while standing right in front of the sign. this is no way in any shape or form intended to start a flame war with you or anyone else for that matter. just having a normal discussion.

Corvus
Flaming Tards Since 2003
Premium
join:2003-11-26
said by The Beer:
You missed my point... Go ahead

I am all for getting another order... Go Ahead
I'm all for accommodating needs... Go Ahead

What I am not for is being a tad ignorant... Go Ahead
For example asking what the specials are THEN saying they have a coupon for less. Why not just order the coupon item. Go Ahead

Expecting us to read the entire menu. go ahead

Forcing unneeded information on us, we and 99% of every delivery pizza shop knows everyone's address just from your phone number, if you tip we know all about the big green bushes in front of your house, and the chevy in the driveway. just let us ask if it has changed. go ahead

Please, Please, PLEASE do not call at 5:30 on a Friday, A "Voice" order can be done in topically less than a minute, a tty order is always 20+. go ahead

Try online, Fax, or just call before 5, be somewhat "accommodating" to the pizza joint.

I understand your frustration, while working in call center for a major ISP in Canada, these calls were always at least 30 mins. 90% of the time, their TTY machine was not even close to the computer, so they were using paper writing my commands and reading me their screen. My personal record was 1h15 for something simple as typing: PING www.google.com.
--
Jesus saves, but only Buddha makes incremental backups.

RelayOpr

@rr.com

Re: Pizza Orders Via Relay

I've been both a relay operator and a Pizza Hut worker before. And I know when you work at a pizza place they go by the "if you've got time to lean, you've got time to clean" philosophy... so if the call takes you 20 minutes, what the hell do you care?? It's 20 minutes that you're not having to mop the floor or do whatever menial job it is that you do that makes you so bitter with life.

As for relay, only a moron couldn't understand how to use that. And if you'd be patient and realize that the Sun, Moon, Earth and Stars do NOT, in fact, revolve around you, maybe you'd get it.

God help you if you ever become disabled. I hope no one takes pity on you.
forgetmenot7

join:2004-10-31
Memphis, TN
why should they be more "Accommodating" to u? Just because some people are deaf doesn t mean that they don t need pizza at the same time as we do. You make it sound like Relay is so fucking hard. It s not that complicated u know. You re just adding 2 extra words at the end of your sentence that s all we re asking u to do but some of u that don t know relay are just dumb asses because u can t quite seem to use your brain for good use and even after reminding u SEVERAL HUNDRED TIMES "Is that a GA" u still don t get it because your too busy jacking off to let them order the fucking pizza. So how about this how about u do your fucking job and fucking "accommodate" to their needs and fucking suck it up and take their order. They don t ask much of u but to cooperate and let them have a pizza. They are just as normal as u. Just because they have a disability does not mean that they are required to go hungry. Maybe they don t want a fucking frozen pizza if they wanted a frozen pizza in the first place they would have gone and gotten one, no, they decided they wanted to have a hot fresh pizza delivered to them. So you all stop being such jack asses and stop your bitching and whining save that for the 5 yr olds and live a little. Because the world doesn t revolve around u. You re not perfect and i m sure that if u had a disability u would want someone to help u out in return. But I ll be sure if u become deaf and u need my help and i find out who u are I ll hang up on your ass. Because that would make u a hypocrite.
swiftymc

join:2004-02-15
Mansfield Center, CT

1 recommendation

Deaf people prolly have a sense of humor too...whos to say a deaf person doesnt abuse the system to make pranks

keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
I think you'd be surprised how many tiny businesses have fax machines -- at least in cities.

And they'll typically fax you back their current menu and flyer.

Even tiny submarine shops and sandwich shops.

And then there is email.
--
(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC)

••••
kenyg

join:2001-02-09
Hatboro, PA

IP Relay

We have a customer that uses IP Relay. The operators have always been polite, and they have been helpful in explaining complex issues at times.

It's a great service for those that need it.

Ken
--
aye aye captain!

nil
Java Geek
join:2000-11-27
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Re: IP Relay

It's just too bad that all this abuse by immature and irresponsible people will probably bring the end of the service.
--
Life is too short to be boring
aureth

join:2003-09-03
Mchenry, IL

Yep, it's bad

I had a couple friends a year or so ago who worked as operators for an IP Relay service. They said it was horrible. 95% + of their calls were pranks or scammers. And the management didn't do jack about it. What a waste.

RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1

1 recommendation

The service.

My co-worker has a deaf daughter who uses this service a lot. I have taken several calls from the operator and know that it can be a life saver, sometimes in the literal sense. And those operators have been very polite even when dealing with me.

As a side note, who here is old enough to remember CB radio (26-27 MHz version) in the 70's? Remember what happened to a very useful tool when kids and some not-so-young idiots thought it was cute to trash the airwaves with all sorts of illicit gear and operations? I suspect that anything useful will be trashed by those who have more wealth (in more than just money) than brains, and those who prefer to steal than to create.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.
Nickker229

join:2003-08-16
Portland, OR

its always going to happen

Anything that's free is going to be taken advantage of... Somebody is always going abuse the service, or take too much of their share. It's just the way things are. SPAM is a great example. Unless you are going to have to pay for the service, or maybe even go through an intensive registration process to be able to use the service, people will not want to go through the trouble of abusing the system.

Dest
Bolo
Premium
join:2000-03-21
Naperville, IL

i wonder...?

wouldn't sexual harrasment law or something help stop those crank calls?

and wouldn't relay scam call make the comapny/operator "accomplice" to fraud? so that the company/lawnmaking may want to tighten up?

roamer1
sticking it out at you

join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA

Re: i wonder...?

said by Dest:
and wouldn't relay scam call make the comapny/operator "accomplice" to fraud?
No...the IP relay services, like the phone companies that own three of the four major ones (Hamilton isn't affiilated with a major IXC) are basically considered common carriers. It's no different from, say, BellSouth or MCI not being considered an accomplice when fraudulent telemarketers buy phone service from them.

-SC
--
"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend

No-Bull SE US Wireless Info: »www.sewireless.info/
Atlanta Apt/Condo Cable & Broadband Info: »www.atlaptcable.info/

keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
A common carrier is not assumed to know about abuses using its service. The reasoning is the service is big, it has many users, so the common carrier can't monitor it all constantly.

However, a common carrier is expected to take action when details of a specific incident are drawn to their attention of lawbreaking with their service.

Someone has to officially report it with reasonable details.

Failure for them to take action might be negligence, and it might eventually make them an accomplice. But they have to be told of specific incidents with enough detail. And maybe they should be told via the FBI so there is proof they were told.

In this case, with them billing the government for fraudulent phone calls (by non-deaf non-vocally impaired people) maybe the common carrier is the main monetary beneficiary of the fraud.
--
(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC)

roamer1
sticking it out at you

join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA

This has ALWAYS bothered me

I have had quite a few occasions over the years to use relay services for calls to hearing-/speech-impaired people and find it absolutely invaluable...I really don't want to see it end because of idiots abusing it.

People abusing IP relay (and the traditional "dialup" relay services, most of which can be accessed via standard dialup modems and not just devices that do Baudot nowadays) bothers me to no end; I understand the reasoning behind not allowing CAs to terminate or refuse to complete obviously fraudulent calls or disclose details of such calls (a CA is simply a human manifestation of a common carrier), but the abuse is so bad nowadays that it's affecting service to legitimate users and is causing high stress and turnover among CAs. The FCC really needs to do something about this -- at the very least, denying access to relay services to known chronic abusers (easier to do on the dialup side than on the IP side, though) and/or giving CAs the power to terminate clearly abusive calls. The terms of service of relay services and phone services in general usually give carriers the right to discontinue service to those who are negatively affecting service to others -- abuse of relay definitely qualifies, IMO.

-SC
--
"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend

No-Bull SE US Wireless Info: »www.sewireless.info/
Atlanta Apt/Condo Cable & Broadband Info: »www.atlaptcable.info/

••••

kaisa
Premium
join:2002-08-20
Chicago, IL

911

whats to stop people from making prank calls to 911...

thanks not cool

•••

BOB2000

@hyatsv01.md.comcast.

BOB2000

Even if it is 90% people abusing the system, at least those who are deaf still have a really convenient communication option. Even as a non-deaf citizen, having no deaf friends or relatives, that is worth my tax dollar. The fact that the service is available at all is quite an accomplishment, as inefficient as it may be.

Look at any recycling service, for example, it is inefficient and wasteful, but to the environment it is helpful in the long run.

The same goes for the internet, milk, subsidized crops, national parks, landfills, etc. It is something we must accept as a society in turn for a greater cause.

operatorhere

@charter.com

From A Relay Operator's perspective

I am a former relay operator. I am currently a relay victim's advocate. I used to have to process all these calls originating from Nigeria that scammed many, many people out of a whole lot of money. When I couldn't take that any longer, I began writing down the phone numbers of the people and the businesses and I would call and give them the information I had on Nigerian scams. People were always incredibly grateful that I warned them before they actually lost money.
What I do now is very different. Other operators who still are working for relay will give me phone numbers of victims. It's my job to give them a heads up that they are about to be scammed. I work very hard and have to call a lot of victims. It's my goal to get this story out to the media and warn potential victims of this massive scam. If you want to read more about the operators that do this job, you can go to the new message board at

»relayscams.aimoo.com/