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GlenQuagmire
Giggidy Giggidy Giggidy Goo
Premium
join:2004-02-16
Grand Rapids, MI
| Re: hate to say it So you are saying poor people do not deserve to have up to date technology. Just because people live in a poor community does not mean the can't pay for DSL. Using that logic you could say that these people should not have phone lines because they do not have enough money. You are a really arrogant for even thinking this. | |
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72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA
| Re: hate to say it said by GlenQuagmire  :So you are saying poor people do not deserve to have up to date technology. Just because people live in a poor community does not mean the can't pay for DSL. Using that logic you could say that these people should not have phone lines because they do not have enough money. You are a really arrogant for even thinking this. Yep, poor people do not deserve up to date technology. If they can't afford the basics how they can afford an extra 25-50 bucks a month for access? How many of these people even have computers?
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RIP Dimebag- August 20, 1966 to December 8th, 2004. | |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
 ·Charter Pipeline
| Re: hate to say it said by 72276539 :Yep, poor people do not deserve up to date technology. You're right. Just like rich people don't deserve tax breaks since they can afford to spend the extra money.
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| | | | joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| Re: hate to say it said by DaSneaky1D : said by 72276539 :Yep, poor people do not deserve up to date technology. You're right. Just like rich people don't deserve tax breaks since they can afford to spend the extra money. Comparing tax breaks and access to broadband are apples and oranges. Try a better analogy, you lost me there. | |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
1 edit | Re: hate to say it The point is, saying someone shouldn't have the opportunity to do something based solely on their income is ignorant.
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] :: my trivial ramblings :: [ | |
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| | | | | | joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| Re: hate to say it said by DaSneaky1D :The point is, saying someone shouldn't have the opportunity to do something based solely on their income is ignorant. We're not talking about denying broadband because people are poor. The issue at hand is only offering broadband to where demand is percieved to be high.
I don't get the opportunity to drive a Lexus because of my income. Should I feel discriminated against? | |
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Corona
It's cool, I'm takin it back
Premium
join:2000-03-14
Aubrey, TX
| Re: hate to say it the problem is, this is a BUSINESS!! You don't invest Billions of dollars in new technology in areas where the demand will be LOW.
BROADBAND IS NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT.
This is simple cost/payback analysis. Nobody is talking about denying any SBC areas to federally measured Plain Old Telephone Services.
If you want to sink Billions of your own dollars into a new network, and serve only areas where you will probably get single digit percentage take rate - GO AHEAD.
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Corona
Come and get your dork on
Take a Ride on the SHORT BUS
See my gallery | |
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| | | | | | | | | wtansill
Ncc1701
join:2000-10-10
Falls Church, VA
| Re: hate to say it said by Corona :the problem is, this is a BUSINESS!! You don't invest Billions of dollars in new technology in areas where the demand will be LOW. BROADBAND IS NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. This is simple cost/payback analysis. Nobody is talking about denying any SBC areas to federally measured Plain Old Telephone Services. If you want to sink Billions of your own dollars into a new network, and serve only areas where you will probably get single digit percentage take rate - GO AHEAD. Well said. Except for that nagging little fee, what is it, and Universal Service fee that the Bells collect? You know -- the fee that's supposed to be collected to compensate them for serving low-income areas???
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That which does not kill me merely prolongs the agony. | |
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Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
| Re: hate to say it AMEN!!!! And then how about all those anti-muni legislation bills that SBC and other Bells try to to keep passing because they don't want any competition?!
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It's muni-licious! »www.tricitybroadband.com | |
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| | | | | | | | | lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL
| Re: hate to say it The USF is not exclusive to providing broadband to the poor.
»www.fcc.gov/wcb/universal_servic···ome.html
The goals of Universal Service, as mandated by the 1996 Act, are to promote the availability of quality services at just, reasonable, and affordable rates; increase access to advanced telecommunications services throughout the Nation; advance the availability of such services to all consumers, including those in low income, rural, insular, and high cost areas at rates that are reasonably comparable to those charged in urban areas. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: hate to say it Hey...I know some very well-off places that have no broadband access. (due to geological problems - they moved to the boonies) Couldn't dial-up then just be considered a "reasonable" connection for the area?
I mean, I know the broadband companies are all out to screw us for the last dime we have, but I can't exactly blame them for failing to build high-speed networks JUST because some people decided to settle out in the middle of nowhere. | |
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| | | | | | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| So...does that mean I should demand a Porche at the price of a Toyota Camry, because I can't afford the difference?
Pul-ease. I hate to point out the obvious, but Internet Service Providers are a BUSINESS. They exist to make money, not pats on the back & warm fuzzies. Dropping billions of dollars into fiber for a neighborhood where your average consumer just MIGHT have one of the following:
1. A computer.
2. Enough income to suppliment a dial-up connection.
...is just retarded business practice. Sure, as city, they could pass bonds, fees, taxes, etc. to rally up for a locally-owned fiber network, but that's up to them AND how much extra in city services/taxes they're willing to pay.
Yes, it sucks that fiber's currently only going into easy-to-wire rich neighborhoods...but until it's your OWN phone company where you make the calls on who gets what, it's the bells' decision to make, not yours. | |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
| Re: hate to say it except that you're wrong.
the second the city tried to do something, the bells/cable cos would raise a stink saying that it's "unfair competition."
been there, done that.
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»www.tricitybroadband.com | |
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| | | | | | | | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA | Re: hate to say it Well, that's just horsecrap. I didn't say they were NICE compeditors, did I?
Sheesh, if any community pooled together for fibering their area (that's a good amount of bling) then they should damn well have the right to use it. | |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
| Re: hate to say it my point was:
if the bells don't want to wire it, get the hell out of the way and let someone else that does, do it.
If they want to really compete, stop trying to pass all these lame ass anti-muni bills. please, the bells get better finance rates than any muni will ever get.
Oh wait, you really don't want to compete.....
You can't have your cake and eat it too, unless you're a bell.....
and remember - SBC = Satan's Bastard Children
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»www.tricitybroadband.com | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| There's a difference...the money belongs to those who EARNED it. Fiber broadband is a LUXURY not a necessity.
It comes down to a simple concept. Want broadband, live where there is broadband just like people choose to live near where they work or school or freeway access. Want fiber, move to where there is fiber.
I can't get a drag strip near my house either. I think you bleeding hearts should subsidize the construction of one. Sure I can drive 50 miles to one, but folks who want to use a broadband connection are free to go to their local library too and use one at taxpayer expense.
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
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72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA
| Re: hate to say it said by oliphant :I can't get a drag strip near my house either. I think you bleeding hearts should subsidize the construction of one. Sure I can drive 50 miles to one I want a copy of Road Atlanta built within 10 minutes of my house, instead of driving 45 miles to get there. I should push the area to give me one.
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Re: hate to say it Absolutely. Racing is a fundamental right. | |
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rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY
1 edit | Anubis = racist, bigot, ignorant. crawl back in your hole. | |
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72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA
| Re: hate to say it said by rit56 :Anubis = racist, bigot, ignorant. crawl back in your hole. Since when am I talking abour race here? Im talking about poor people.
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RIP Dimebag- August 20, 1966 to December 8th, 2004. | |
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| | | | | Cyron
join:2002-09-24
Charlotte, NC | Re: hate to say it Technically speaking, you're talking about people who live in poor areas, not necessarily poor people. A millionaire could choose to live in that area if he/she wanted to. | |
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| | | | | | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: hate to say it True...but apparently the average statistics of said areas are more at the poverty line. True, Bill Gates could come and move into a poor neighborhood, that makes one (OMG!) customer. In order to expect a return on their investment, they will need MOST of the customers on said network/neighborhood to sign up for the fiber.
Just because one person in an area can afford fiber, doesn't necessarily mean that everyone else can. | |
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jsinaiko
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Chicago, IL | Re: hate to say it Good point Witchy. Keep it up.  | |
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Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| That's a great thing about this nation: if you don't like it, change it.
If enough people felt that a computer was a life necessity, and there needs to be government-subsidized programs towards getting everyone hooked up, then they could easily tack on some extra taxes to folks to wire up the needy.
Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case currently. (I don't know of any govt. programs designed to get low-income families computers) So, until it's dictated by legislation that it's Uncle Sam's job to give you a computer...it just ain't happening. Don't blame the bells for passing up areas for fiber hook ups that don't even have computers. | |
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lyls
@tele.dk
 from:
DonoftheDead
| Re: hate to say it a great thing about your nation is that you can change it ..... if youre filthy rich | |
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| | | | | | | | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: hate to say it You have GOT to be kidding me. Did the civil/women's rights not happen? You had a mass population asking for change - and guess what, things got changed!
Now, I don't know exactly how much support there would be for a million PC march for govt. subsidized low-income computers...but if they had that much public outcry for "equal PC access for all", then something would be done. | |
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ScottMo
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-15
Stony Brook, NY
| said by Sweet Witch :... I think every family on welfare and that earn under a certain amount should get a basic computer and internet access FREE. It's the only way to stop the perpetual generations of welfare families and the working poor. Education is the only way, not technology. A sweet computer & a blazing fast connection is useless when the state of public school are substandard in many urban centers. Fix the educational system first, the rest will follow. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by Sweet Witch :
And just how are the poor supposed to better themselves to not be poor anymore
Well, they could try doing what the rest of us working stiffs do... IE WORKING and going to SCHOOL. That's how we "better ourselves" and make more money. We certainly can't expect someone to just GIVE us more money. quote:
I think every family on welfare and that earn under a certain amount should get a basic computer and internet access FREE.
Great. Make it even easier not to work... Add free Computers and Internet to the list of other free or subsidized services already provided. Actually, there already are programs that do this, but they aren't "universal" yet.... sheesh. One of the big problems already is that welfare programs give so much (Money, food, housing, medical, schooling/training, subsidized utilities/phone/daycare etc etc) that a person can't AFFORD to get a job and WORK because they'd be worse off! quote:
It's the only way to stop the perpetual generations of welfare families and the working poor.
Working poor is right. Many people with just regular jobs make less after taxes then the perpetual non-worker you speak of.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
·Charter Pipeline
| Less affluent doesn't mean dirt poor.
The group does have a point. SBC doesn't have to sign franchise agreements that would require them to serve ALL areas.
SBC can and does cherry pick areas to provide service in. Whatever business reason for doing so, if the group's claim is tested and proven, the result could help to bring service to customers that live in the bookdocks without service.
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] :: my trivial ramblings :: [ | |
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jsinaiko
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: hate to say it You are correct. It's one reason why muni broadband isn't such a bad idea.
Here's the point - as more and more content is available on broadband/cable/BPL, and other mediums fade as a result, anyone who wants access to information is gonna need these services in the community.
Also, I for example, live on the south side of Chicago in a pretty affluent area. But my zip code - and that's how they determine these things is also part of a ghetto. As a result, my car insurance is sky high, and the area is red-lined in other ways as well - large retailers don't want to come here, banks needed to be forced to open branches here.
But guess what? All these racist, classist outfits are making money from their outlets here. It's mainly racism and stupidity that causes these huge companies to ignore so many potential customers. Example: Starbuck's refused to open up an outlet in the area. Last year a company owned by Magic Johnson opened a Starbuck's as a franchise and it is one of the most profitable Starbuck's in Chicago.
The idea that lower income folks don't want to drink fancy coffee is idiotic. The idea that these same people cannot afford SBC's super broadband or whatever you want to call it is equally idiotic. | |
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72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA
| Its called business, they don't put Porsche dealerships in the middle of the gheto do they? Since ROI is such a foreign concept you can always have the government subsidize the network so the for-profits won't have to risk losing the money. Wait, that would be anti-competitive. 
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RIP Dimebag- August 20, 1966 to December 8th, 2004. | |
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See 25 replies to this post |
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AtomicZero
join:2004-11-24
West Palm Beach, FL
1 edit | Define low income... well I think in the context of the article, it's just a politically correct way of saying POOR PEOPLE [and pardon me but I din't read anything about black/white issues] low income = POOR. And If these MAADD people are poor then DSL [should be] the last thing on their freeking mind. But in the event that they can afford DSL, they will get it eventually. But if SBC wants to roll their crap out elsewhere, then it's THEIR perogative. No government is gonna tell me where and when to set up my freeking lemonade stand. so get over it.
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This world needs an enema. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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AtomicZero
join:2004-11-24
West Palm Beach, FL
| I read the article, but no I don't have SBC. And I AGREE with SBC sorry. not gonna cry for people. esp since I have worked for ISPs and cell phone service providers. I know what running a business is line in a 'less affulent' neighborhood.
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This world needs an enema. | |
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Bobb
Premium
join:2001-02-16
Kent, WA
clubs:  
| They should be allowed to wire Only the area's that will
be able to give a return, these so called ministers just want charity, that's all. I guarantee if it's installed, the day after they'll be asking for free or seriously discounted service! They'll say there should be no divide so they deserve it, or, government subsidized, {Our taxes} etc, etc.
Next month there planning to complain about the Vehicle divide, they say because some people have nice cars, they all should be given a Lexus for free to make it fair for everyone;) | |
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AtomicZero
join:2004-11-24
West Palm Beach, FL
| Re: hate to say it *stands up and applauds* thank-you that is my point. there is no need to whine about DSL service. wah I'm not getting Project Lightspeed aka U-Verse or whatever. Big deal so your area was not chosen to be wired. Big Companies are greedy they will eventually get there, just not first. WAH! you're racist! Um no it's just called big business, It's evil sure but not racist and neither is anyone who happens to agree with that business trategy. [eeeek he disagrees! HE MUST BE RACIST]
There, there just let go of the PC bullshit once in a while and take a look @ REALITY. Not everything that opposes you gonna be racist, sexist, homophobic & capitalist.
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This world needs an enema. | |
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lyls
@tele.dk | howcome you guys always talk about lexus? whats the deal? its like people ALWAYS using cars in analogies (well almost always) | |
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| | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Bobb :They should be allowed to wire Only the area's that will be able to give a return, these so called ministers just want charity, that's all. I guarantee if it's installed, the day after they'll be asking for free or seriously discounted service! They'll say there should be no divide so they deserve it, or, government subsidized, {Our taxes} etc, etc. Next month there planning to complain about the Vehicle divide, they say because some people have nice cars, they all should be given a Lexus for free to make it fair for everyone;) BINGO!!!!! First it will be service, then it will be discounts, then they will want it for free. | |
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fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
 ·Skype
| Define irony:
A group of ministers fighting for greater availibility of a medium recognized as a primary means of distribution for pornography, illegal music, video, and software, and dirty jokes.
OK, just kidding, but I couldn't resist.
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When people are free to do as they please, they usually imitate each other. | |
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mishaq
Premium
join:2004-01-24
Richardson, TX
clubs: | Karl Karl Bode is my hero.
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Damn you FCC! | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
1 edit | Re: Is it April 1st already? Had to do a double-take myself.
I think they focus on all technology divide issues, and the article seems to hint they're solely "devoted to bringing high-speed Internet access" to poor areas. | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
1 edit | Re: Is it April 1st already?
ROL Powered By SBC |
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| | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| LOL...too true.
"Yeah, I have fiber in my neighborhood...now I just need to scrimp together for a computer!"
Why don't we address issue one...like getting these low-income area folks computers, BEFORE we start getting them 100 MB/s transfer speeds to their pr0n? | |
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| Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA | Hey, I was personally surprized that 8000 of them could keep their hands off the choir boys long enough to form a protest letter. ^_^ | |
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Bill
Light Up The Halo
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-09
clubs:
| DUH! Honestly, why would SBC, or any other broadband provider, push deployment of a service these people couldn't afford? I wouldn't waste my money on something I won't get return on.
Even if they could afford it, it doesn't mean SBC would put it in their neighborhood. Lot of rich neighborhoods don't have the "latest and greatest" broadband service either.
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Secure-Wifi.Net is now open for buisness in the LA/OC area.
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| m1k3
join:2002-01-31
Aurora, IL | Re: DUH! I live in a well to do neighborhood with brand new Porsches and Mercedes and all I can get is 192/128 interleaved. | |
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Shadow01
Premium
join:2003-10-24
Wasteland
·AT&T Midwest
| said by Bill :Honestly, why would SBC, or any other broadband provider, push deployment of a service these people couldn't afford? I wouldn't waste my money on something I won't get return on. Even if they could afford it, it doesn't mean SBC would put it in their neighborhood. Lot of rich neighborhoods don't have the "latest and greatest" broadband service either. It is a two tier approach, first is to force broadband deployment in these areas and second accuse them of pricing beyond the people's pocket book, that way a subsidy can be imposed to provide 'free' access to the area. I bet the tax payers will be footing the bill before it is over.:( | |
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AbBaZaBbA
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Wildomar, CA | hah you will be provided with broadband access, comrade | |
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drmorley
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-20
Park Ridge, IL
clubs: | Need to hire a lawyer. This sounds like a job for Jackie Chiles
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inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK | i got excited there for a minute I thought that people had finally got fed up with the puritan BS of the Southern Baptist Convention, not SWHell....though I would put up with SWhell over SBC any day. | |
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SubTexel
Keyboard Commando
join:2003-11-20
Hampton, VA | Hrmm How does SBC define affluent? Any neighborhood who's resident(s) make less than 100k . Who knows. But coming out and saying it like they did was only asking for problems from groups like this. | |
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bokamba
Chengdu Rocks
Premium
join:2002-04-05
Falls Church, VA | Ha! How dare SBC try to make profitable decisions?! | |
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See 28 replies to this post |
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Goldman
join:2002-06-21
Maumelle, AR
| SBC is not the govt. Sounds like someone has SBC mixed up with a govt. entitlement program. SBC is in this for the money. You can't roll this out in areas where people may not necessarily want it. This is why we don't have fiber running through rural America now. It's not cost effective. Leave SBC alone and it will get to you eventually, or move where you can get hooked up. That's what I did. | |
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GlenQuagmire
Giggidy Giggidy Giggidy Goo
Premium
join:2004-02-16
Grand Rapids, MI
| Re: SBC is not the govt. said by Goldman :Sounds like someone has SBC mixed up with a govt. entitlement program. SBC is in this for the money. You can't roll this out in areas where people may not necessarily want it. This is why we don't have fiber running through rural America now. It's not cost effective. Leave SBC alone and it will get to you eventually, or move where you can get hooked up. That's what I did. That's the problem with this country, people are just in it for the money. SBC is providing a vital public service they cannot just pick and choose who they give service to. All you republicans are the same and just greededy and that's wrong. If SBC loses money on this then tough s$#&. | |
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MisfitWitch
join:2003-05-27
Mesa, AZ
| Re: SBC is not the govt. SBC is NOT providing a vital public service, they are a private company under no obligation to the public in general.
For many years I hung vinyl replacement windows, do you think I tried to find houses in poor or affluent areas to find a sale?
No one could tell me I HAD to pull jobs in a poorer area under the guise that I was cutting them out of the loop, I pull jobs where I wanted to - because I was my own company, I did not belong to the public in general.
Same with SBC - it's their damn company, not the publics, they can pick and choose all they want to.
Misfit
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I am NOT a human. | |
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GlenQuagmire
Giggidy Giggidy Giggidy Goo
Premium
join:2004-02-16
Grand Rapids, MI
| Re: SBC is not the govt. said by bogey780 :Unemployed? I am employed. How else could I afford my HSI. | |
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| | wuduck
join:2004-05-19
Decatur, TN
| How can you possibly think that broadband is a vital service?
Last time I checked there are still books for people to read and learn from. Some people even find them entertaining, and exercises their imagination.
I haven't seen the first post in any broadband forum that goes like this:
"poor ping times make it difficult for me to read my educational material online"
Instead its:"I can't play my online game because of poor ping times"
Whaa, whaa.... | |
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MisfitWitch
join:2003-05-27
Mesa, AZ
| Jeez Beside the comment already made about financial return (in other words, business), is SBC not a private company? Is SBC not privileged as a private company to do as they see fit with their services?
Is SBC responsible for providing their services where they don't want to?
Did'nt think so.
This isn't about Social Security, or Welfare funds, or anything of a public nature - it's about a group of people not capable of providing a companies expected return attempting to force that company to comply with that group of people.
Does anyone honestly think that if SBC in fact DID see return & profit in providing to that area, that they would not do so?
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quoting davebenham:
"Not to mention their techs would have to dodge bullets to do their installations. I'd pass on that 'opportunity'."
LMFAO
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Misfit
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rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY
| Re: Jeez fine. end their monopoly and let another cable company directly compete with them. see how things change . these people are doing the right thing. you are all attacking these people because they are inner city ministers ( black ) and to assume they are all poor and don't have the means to buy broadband is racist and ignorant. "poor" neighborhoods are wired here in NY and I know tons of people making under 50,000 (which is not much in New York) with broadband. They just don't want to spend the money to wire certain areas because they don't have to. A government granted monopoly should be forced to wire everyone or else open up all their markets to competition. | |
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MisfitWitch
join:2003-05-27
Mesa, AZ
| Re: Jeez Did you actually read my post? You sure have a way of twisting things, and damn sure quick to accuse one of racism.
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it's about a group of people not capable of providing a companies expected return attempting to force that company to comply with that group of people.
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Racist?
Looks like Jesse Jackson just replied to my post.
Once again, if SBC (or any co/corp) sees a profit in an area, they will wire it. Do you honestly think a corp is going to voluntarily lose money because of "where" the service would be?
Misfit
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I am NOT a human. | |
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Midak
Doctors suck
Premium
join:2002-02-26
Yonkers, NY
| If given the choice of installing now in all neighborhoods or none they would have to choose none. Same thing is going on with Verizon right now. They know how much they will make in the areas they are rolling out with fiber service and this will allow them to spend the money in the future to install everywhere. When market surveys show that they will gain more customers in one area over the next, thats where they need to go first. As for the racist comments, understand this, all of these corporations only care what color your moneyis. Stop being the narrow minded idiots you claim to hate and just wait your turn like everyone else. I'm not rich, I had to wait for OOL, I will have to wait for FIOS too.
Two questions: Why should SBC roll out in the less affluent neighborhoods? Why is it every time the poor or less affluent don't get what they want they claim racism? | |
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imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| said by rit56 :fine. end their monopoly and let another cable company directly compete with them. see how things change . There are competitors to SBC, read up on them some time. I live in an SBC area which also has two cable providers, what's your point. The prices are not that much cheaper then anywhere else.
If Qwest wanted to string up a phone network there is nothing stopping them. Exclusive franchise agreements are illegal. A company has to strike up an agreement with the local government, if they can not agree to the terms then the network isn't built. Period.
SBC is in the right here. If they don't feel that it is cost effective to build up those areas that's their business. You keep playing the racist card because you don't actually have a point, and you are completely ignorant to who businesses work. | |
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lyls
@tele.dk
| ok in the beginning with your other posts i would somewhat agree with you but youre the one being racist... granted im not from the us but i doubt everyone here is "trying to keep the black man down" and i very much doubt this is about race..... stop being racist and try to say something useful instead | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
2 edits | I smell blackmail Ministers + Chicago = Jesse Jackson
I see Jesse Jackson in this somewhere and he is going to come forward and accuse SBC of racism because they are not
going into black communities in Chicago. Of course he could careless about this community but this crook will see an opportunity to extort a bunch money from SBC.
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Real Men use Vacuum tubes, 25 pound filament transformers, and plate voltages no less then 2400 volts...BPL I'm coming to get you
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starcaptor
join:2000-08-19
East Northport, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| hmm... I can see SBC making the decision from a ROI standpoint, but if this community is actually desiring broadband enough that there is a complaint such as this from a group, easily they will have money to put out for it, regardless of how much they make, or what other expenses and obligations might suffer from paying 30-50 bucka month o_O;;
But from business standpoint, that isnt SBC's responsability. I think they should guage the level of demand, and potential customers with a survey of some sort to see if this is financially feasible. But ultimately, I doubt this is about priviledge or EJ (env. justice). There are wayy too many rich neighborhoods in the middle of nowhere which have few options, and poorer areas with tons of options (think many many college students =P). But SBC stopping municipalities from hooking these less affluent areas up, that is just messed up. | |
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chef423
Chef423
join:2000-09-02
Springfield, IL
| NO WAY! Yea, and if they can afford DSL in the ghetto, then I need to get the 10000.00 I have given to the government to feed those worthless, crack-selling, POS's. Ohh yea, they need food stamps to eat but yet they are all playing XBL on DSL and DL'ing mad Rap n Porn.
chef | |
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Chris 313
Come get some
Premium
join:2004-07-18
Houma, LA
clubs: | If You Can... My stand on this is, if you can pay for DSL, or any other high speed internet solution, by all means, do it!
If you can't, don't.
It's that simple. | |
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| jazzy112
join:2003-12-05
Fargo, ND
| Re: NO WAY! Ok, Now that was a little overboard. I grew up in a neighborhood that had cable tv partially subsidized. I want to see you live on 34.00/month for food.
The government can't open computer centers for public use, if the infrastructure isn't there. There isn't enough tax base in those neighborhoods (assumption) to pay for the infrastructure, and from what I have been reading here the richer 24k(what I consider poverty) and up could care less and will never pay for it.
So why should you expect a company to pay for something you won't? I am getting a little tired of reading all of these "Free Lunch" posts. I am really getting tired of you all accusing one another of being racist.
It's everybodies attitudes towards life that keeps racism alive. My mother in law is about as racist as they come and I have been tempted to smack her upside the head sometimes. A lot of you people who are posting here are assuming what others are writing makes them racist. To me it makes you an overly paranoid person keeping racism alive.
I want to see everybody who has been extreme on both sides of this issue, do a couple sattelite installations in a poor neighborhood, or a indian reservation, or one of the top 5 cities for crime. I know Gary, IN; Atlanta,GA; and St. Louis,MO are in that top 5.
Before you accuse me of being racist, I have done several sattelite installations on several reservations. While the typical stereotypes are not true, they are still scary places to be. Of course not all of them are bad, and the bad ones do have better areas. I did an installation for a guy who was powering his house off of an extension cord because he had a fire and the fire marshall wouldn't let the power be turned back on, the wierdest thing about this one was that I was connecting the receiver to a 13" Black and White TV. I don't have a clue where the money came from, no phone, no mailing address, not even a street address. But to this day he is one of the nicest guys I have met in my years doing technical installs. | |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| How do they know SBC will do this? Do they have any evidence that telco's only want to deploy to rich folks?
-- In my town, Verizon has only deployed DSL where the lowest-income people live (i.e., the CO is in a low-income area). So welfare recipients can get it, the people really screaming at Verizon for broadband are being told go pound sand.
-- I have a weekend/vacation place. It's in the wealthiest zip code in the county. Do you think we have DSL (from Qwest this time)? Nope. Again, it's only been given limited deployment, in lower-income areas.
-- I know someone at SBC. While not talking specifically about Lightspeed, he said "you'd be surprised at the typical broadband customer", i.e., the wealthiest areas not not necessarily the best customers. Some of it may be age (alot of wealthy areas are just empty-nesters with little broadband interest); also with Lightspeed, since they expect to sell pay-TV over it, they may target low- and moderate-income people since they tend to watch alot of TV. | |
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jsinaiko
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Chicago, IL | Re: How do they know SBC will do this? SBC basically said so in their press release. | |
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| | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| Re: How do they know SBC will do this? They said "high value" customers. In other words, customers likely to buy their product. That's alot different from saying "rich folks". For instance, they may figure that affluent people already have cable or satellite pay TV, and thus would have little interest in buying Lightspeed TV. | |
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xyar
Premium
join:2001-06-21
Portland, OR
| DSL isn't deployed where the lowest-income people live on purpose, the CO just happens to be in downtown Banks, where presumably the lower-income people live. CO's are always in the town cores, and if the low-income people live downtown, then that's where the DSL concentration is. The new, nice developments outside of town are often too far to get DSL. In this type of situation, I don't think it's a conscious thing, it's just the way things work out. And as I recall, in Banks, the downtown area is mostly lower-income. | |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
 ·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| One hand and the other On one hand, I would like to see the poor get this technology. I know some of them have computers either they bought or got donated to them. Having broadband would help them out in many different ways.
On the other hand, why should SBC have to pay to wire poorer areas? Should taxpayers pay for it?
Look at Keller, TX and the FIOS install there. I have read reports of the same thing going on down there. With the cost of fiber and the last mile, why should Verizon have to pay for that?
This is a nightmare of an issue to solve. It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If SBC wires the area, then they lose money because a majority of the poor will not be able to afford it. If SBC doesn't wire it, then these groups are all over them.
Maybe they can come up with a different solution. Say upgrade the wiring for DSL access in poorer areas. Then, give price breaks to those that sign up. Just a thought.
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My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
1 edit | Re: One hand and the other I guess I'm a jerk 'cause I don't see why the so-called poor should get a price break on broadband.
Broadband is a luxury like cable TV, not a necessity like basic phone service or water.
They can use dial up or God forbid set foot in one of many very fine taxpayer funded public libraries.
I was one of the early residential BB customers with Cox/OC back in I think it was late '96 or something like that. Point is I just find it hard to understand how in just 8 years residential broadband has gone from non-existence to fundamental right worthy of subsidy, either public or private.
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
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New2DSL3
join:2001-06-27
| Just Ponder Some of the funding for the next generation networks is provided by people in the less affluent neighborhoods. For example: the fees that were charged to all of those folks on Pennsylvania for fiber that never materialized. If the folks in the "poor" neighborhoods will not be considered when the new build-outs are being planned, they should be exempt from paying that extra 3-5 dollars a month to fund them. Just my .02 | |
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cooperaaaron
join:2004-04-10
Joliet, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
| What in the he11 ?? 1) What "ghettos" in the city of Chicago would anyone be referring to ??? They are disappearing as you speak...
2) If SBC does not want to wire anyone up, it's their loss as "poor people" eventually move up in the world and are able to afford some of these services. They won't forget things like these....
3) If the "poor people" can't afford to pay for internet access, how are they downloading porn ???
4) Now, I am a African American and I think that SBC is putting people in classes under the guise of only wiring certain communities. If you can get a phone and if you can get cable, then I think you should be able get what your next door neighbor has across the tracks... Just put it all in so ALL PEOPLE can enjoy... If they can afford it, fine, if not, that's ok too...
5) Now, I know there are a lot of you that don't like "poor people" and that's ok... It is funny to see ALL types of people doing things that most people think "poor people" do or say or act....So, stop all this talk about what "poor people" need or can afford... I think that they already know what they can or can't have... Let THEM make that choice.. Isn't that the American way ??? | |
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