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Comments on news posted 2005-02-03 12:34:10: Ah, the joy of groups who don't disclose their financial sources, claim objectivity, yet are PR extensions of the incumbents and their quest to shape policy. ..

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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast

BS

If companys "C" "S" or "V" don't wire these areas, the governing bodies of these areas should be allowed to listen to the people and set up their own infrastructure.

WTF should it matter to the "Big Guys" that aren't planning to do anything(hence no income from) for these communities, if they(communities) take it upon themselves to get the job done?
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Minister

join:2002-01-02
Fleeting
Mmmm

Smoking health concerns are fueled by junk science, and your town setting up a Wi-Fi hotspot is pure evil!

Light up a cig, and enjoy that dial-up, kids: Progress is in town.


Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

reply to dadkins
Re: BS

Because those municipal broadband projects would be competition for them if they ever decided to serve those areas. And there also a threat that an already wired community might see a succeeding muni and decide to do one themselves. It's all about keeping their monopolies and keeping away any possible competition.
--
-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
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justncredible

@rr.com

reply to dadkins
The article makes a very valid point. Read it.

It clearly cites failures such as CLICK in tacoma. Karl says there is successes yet he provides no proof of them. Where they at? Cite examples where it is clear a muni ran broadband project works. Show us where the spending of tax dollars benefits the whole city and not just a very few.

It is one thing for the politicians to think we are stupid enough to fall for this, it is another when Karl thinks people that come here are that dumb.


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
Unregistered poster's comments are immediately discounted...
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A is A


cbrigante2
Cubs 20??
Premium
join:2002-11-22
North Aurora, IL

reply to justncredible
said by justncredible:

The article makes a very valid point. Read it.

It clearly cites failures such as CLICK in tacoma. Karl says there is successes yet he provides no proof of them. Where they at? Cite examples where it is clear a muni ran broadband project works. Show us where the spending of tax dollars benefits the whole city and not just a very few.

It is one thing for the politicians to think we are stupid enough to fall for this, it is another when Karl thinks people that come here are that dumb.
When you consider that EVERY town that has not been wired for broadband is a failure on the companies that are funding the Heartland group...I'd say that 1 Municipal failure is small by comparison.


RR Conductor
RailRoadDude
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
·Comcast

reply to Minister
Re: Mmmm

Boy, this lady (from the article) sure makes you think smoking is glamorous and won't hurt you, mmmmm


TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast

 Heartland Institute is a Conservative think tank

The Heartland Institute is a conservative funded think tank. It supports capitalism. It isn't trying to fool anyone(except maybe Karl;)). That it has come out against government funded utilities is hardly surprising.

I disagree with the Heartland Institute on the issue of municipal broadband, but it isn't the evil empire being made out in this article. There are pros and cons on the subject. Make up your own mind.
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deadmeat
Premium
join:2003-03-21
Sonoma, CA

Re: Heartland Institute is a Conservative think ta

said by TKJunkMail See Profile:

The Heartland Institute is a conservative funded think tank. It supports capitalism. It isn't trying to fool anyone(except maybe Karl;)). That it has come out against government funded utilities is hardly surprising.

I disagree with the Heartland Institute on the issue of municipal broadband, but it isn't the evil empire being made out in this article. There are pros and cons on the subject. Make up your own mind.
Yea and nicotine isn't addictive .


justncredible

@rr.com

reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Heartland Institute is a Conservative think tank

list some pros, where are they?

We just recently saw comcast attacked by a muni ran cable company saying the competition was unfair.

The tax payers paid for and built the system and now can not get lower prices. Is that fair? It would be one thing if real competition was allowed, but the muni ran monopoly would win out every time. Crushing the free market choice for a provider. We just saw it happen. So show where a muni is good.

hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
reply to John Galt
Re: BS

i tried telling him that before. But he only posts when theres something about Munis putting in their own network. He's always against it. But then again he probably works for TWC there in WI and they pay him to say that.


batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25

reply to justncredible
Re: BS

»www.tricitybroadband.com/failures.htm

Read up! quoted directly from the page linked above:

BROADBAND "FAILURES"

The opposition has cited these cities (out of over 580) where they say a municipal broadband utility has failed... They ALSO SAY that there aren't any other communities out there who are providing Fiber To The Home (FTTH). That's news to the 70 communities who belong to the FTTH Council. Check out the list here. And these are not little communities stuck out in the cornfields where there is no competition for service!

Tacoma, Washington
This is news to the folks in Tacoma, whose municipal broadband utility is operating IN THE BLACK and has not resulted in a tax hike. What has happened in Tacoma is that they are not reaching their projected market share as quickly as they predicted. But the utility is alive and well and making money. Check out their public utility »www.ci.tacoma.wa.us/tpu/" >www.thecityoftacoma.com/tacoma.h···.us/tpu/ ). Click the "Click! Network" link on the left side of their page.

And read this recent article in Wired News about Tacoma ...
www.tricitybroadband.com/wired.htm)

The Charge: To pay for increased capital costs for their fiber system, Tacoma Public Utilities imposed a 50% surcharge on local electric bills.

Response From The Utility: " I am aware of your citizens group, your upcoming Tri City Broadband Referendum and the aggressive media campaign by those in opposition to your efforts. I review DSL Reports regularly and would like to set the record straight about Click! Network, for those who are interested in facts rather than propaganda.

Click! Network was constructed primarily for the utility’s use, and would have been built whether we deployed commercial services (cable TV, Internet services and data services) or not. I’ve attached a document with a brief history, in hopes the accurate story about Click! will be shared.

To date, Click! serves 21,500 cable TV customers (32% of the homes the network passes), 6,500 high-speed Internet over cable modem customers, and several dozen businesses with high-speed data lines. Our commercial revenues are covering our operating expenses. Efficiencies to the utility have been considerable since Click! facilities are connected to remote terminal units on utility poles around the city. Electric technicians can monitor the health of the power network and dispatch repair crews to exact locations, in a fraction of the time it use to take. Eventually, the utility will be able to automatically connect and disconnect power services and read meters, increasing operational efficiencies.

Attempts by others to thwart competition should be examined carefully. Competition in Tacoma has meant increased customer service by all providers, lower prices, more choice and a boost to economic development. Since Tacoma Power’s investment in Click! Network, the City of Tacoma now markets itself as “America’s Most Wired City” and has lured high-tech businesses to the area.

An important note, those opposing your efforts have erroneously connected Tacoma Power’s surcharge during the energy crisis with Click! Network, when in fact the two have no connection at all. At the beginning of the energy crisis (winter 2000), Click! was already constructed in Tacoma and Tacoma Power had over $100,000,000 in cash reserves, which is triple the amount we carry on an operating basis for contingencies. The utility was determining the best way to invest it when the energy crisis hit. Unfortunately the $100,000,000 was not enough, and the utility chose to initiate a surcharge.

Those with questions about Click! Network can find additional information at our web site at www.click-network.com. Sincerely, Diane R. Lachel,Government and Community Relations Manager, Click! Network, Tacoma Power"

UPDATE 08/12/04 :

From: Lachel, Diane
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:46 PM
To: 'Annie Collins'
Subject: Click!'s response to SBC's report

Annie,

Feel free to use any of this information on your web site.

As you know, there has been an organized effort by private industry to discredit municipal telecommunication networks. The information about Click! Network in SBC's report ("Failed Municipal Fiber Networks") is the same old, tired, out-of-context story from previous industry sponsored reports. Here's the real story:

1. Tacoma Power constructed a telecommunications network for their own needs (to connect 65 substations to a centrally located Energy Control Center for the purpose of monitoring the electric system, managing energy load, automatically reading meters, automatically connecting and disconnecting meters, etc.) because the incumbent telephone company and incumbent cable TV company could not provide the capacity the utility required. During the design phase of the network, Tacoma Power decided to add other capacity (for cable TV, data transport and Internet services) on the advice of Stanford Research Institute when their conclusive research showed the Tacoma area was underserved.

2. Arthur Anderson and the Washington Institute Foundation (both cited in the SBC report) based their analysis on an initial planning document (revised after telecom experts were hired) which was one of many elements the policy makers used to authorize the utility to move forward with building Click! Network. The $40 million cited in the SBC report was never adopted as the budget. Instead, $92 million was approved by the Utility Board and City Council over a two biennium period to fund the network. SBC continues to perpetuate inaccuracies from two flawed reports.

3. According to the Public Utility Board, the Tacoma City Council, the Tacoma Pierce County Chamber of Commerce, the Economic Development Board, The News Tribune and thousands of residential and business customers - Click! Network is a huge success.

4. SBC's link between Tacoma Power's rate increase and Click! Network has no basis in fact. Public utilities follow a very detailed rate case process, complete with public input. SBC's report shows a lack of understanding of the industry they attempt to discredit. The rate increase (the first in 5 years) was related solely to the energy crisis of 2000-01. Today, Tacoma Power customers pay some of the lowest rates for electricity in the country.

5. In the cities where Click! Network services are available (Tacoma, University Place and Fircrest) prices for cable TV and high-speed Internet are 20 - 25% lower than areas where competition does not exist.

6. Since Click! began providing services, both the incumbent telephone provider and the incumbent cable TV provider have rebuilt their networks, something that hadn't been done in the previous 25 years.

7. Since Click! began providing services, the timeframe for making business fiber connections decreased from 18 months (quoted by US West in 1997) to 30 days (quoted by Click!).

I hope SBC didn't invest too much on the report. It appears they didn't get their money's worth, if accuracy was a goal.

Diane R. Lachel
Government and Community Relations Manager
Click! Network / Tacoma Power
3628 South 35th Street
Tacoma, WA 98409-3192
phone: 253.502.8537
fax: 253.502.8493
dlachel@click-network.com
--
»www.tricitybroadband.com

jsouth
Jsouth

join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS
reply to justncredible
Re: Heartland Institute is a Conservative think tank

Apparently you don't know how to google search. By the way ECW sucked rocks and your namesake couldn't hack it in the WWE. lol

TACSPEED
Premium
join:2001-04-14
Tacoma, WA
reply to justncredible
Re: Heartland Institute is a Conservative think ta

quote:
list some pros, where are they?
1. More choices.
2. Better service.
3. Lower cost


cybermud

join:2000-08-25
Chicago, IL

reply to justncredible
Re: Heartland Institute is a Conservative think tank

said by justncredible:

The tax payers paid for and built the system and now can not get lower prices.
Meanwhile, the wondereful cable and phone companies lower their prices every year!
--
www.donwest.org - Get in on it, Gang!


guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
reply to hottboiinnc
Re: BS

Whats the going price for politicians nowadays.? Maybe the people here can pick one or two used ones up cheap.!


woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA
·EarthLink
·DSL EXTREME

reply to dadkins
said by dadkins See Profile:

If companys "C" "S" or "V" don't wire these areas, the governing bodies of these areas should be allowed to listen to the people and set up their own infrastructure.

WTF should it matter to the "Big Guys" that aren't planning to do anything(hence no income from) for these communities, if they(communities) take it upon themselves to get the job done?
Be cause the "big Guy" have been saying it can't be done, or it cost too much, if the munies can get it done, then that shows they have been lied to or decieved...at the least
--
BlooMe

Beeper
Part Of The Problem

join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:

reply to cybermud
Re: Heartland Institute is a Conservative think ta

said by cybermud See Profile:

Meanwhile, the wondereful cable and phone companies lower their prices every year!
Phone companies lower prices all the time. Long distance and international calls are less than 10% of what they used to be.
--
Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism.


SRFireside

join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
Long distance calling is still a very competitive market with lots of players vying for your business. The same can't be said for every community regarding local phone or broadband service.
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