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Comments on news posted 2005-02-22 10:31:47: The ISearch and IDownload applications have a long and sordid history of using clearly documented shady installation techniques; most recently making use of the WMP DRM vulnerability we've discussed at length. ..
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 Cyron
join:2002-09-24
Charlotte, NC
| What do I get I think the whole issue of spyware/maleware/adware is what do I gain from having it installed on my computer. If a adware company wants to send me free stuff, I might let them monitor my browsing activities.
If their using it to gather marketing data so they can sell me something later, I'm not gaining anything. | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Re: What do I get It's not just a "do you offer any real value to the user" question. It's also a question of "how did this application get installed." If I go to Opera.com and download Opera's free, ad-supported web browser, I know I'm getting a product that will show me advertisements. (And in return I get Opera for free.)
If, however, I'm just surfing around and iSearch uses a drive-by download technique to worm it's way onto my computer then any value that they claim to offer to the user is moot. The more important issue becomes their intrusion of the computer system without the user's consent (or via tricking the user into consenting).
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-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/ | |
| Hickerx2
God Bless The U.S. Military
join:2001-03-04
Franklinville, NY
| Not in this country..... I actually don't get the legal issue claimed in these moronic letters. People download software at their discretion, to eradicate software that is clearly identified as "removed" by the vendor.
Surely no court in this country would tell somebody they have no right to remove software from their own computers?
Oh wait, we have the Supreme Court in this country.
Surely, no court could hold CastleCops responsible for the negative implications incurred by being labelled as "adware"?
Oh wait, we have the Supreme Court in this country.
Surely no court would find it perfectly legitimate to covertly install software that does objectionable things to a person's computer?
Oh wait, we have the Supreme Court in this country.
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Kerry for President? Is this Saturday Night Live?....whew!....it was only a bad dream | |
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drkkgt
Boo
Premium
join:2003-08-26
Whittier, CA
| Re: Umm.. free speach? Hence the increase in Slander lawsuits and the lawsuits about blogs as well as possible laws against what's said in blogs.
Free speech is a pretty myth in modern days that the media uses to invade your non-right to privacy.
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"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila."-Mitch Ratliffe | |
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
| No netwire, nobody has the right to libel and slander, on ther internet or elsewhere.
The specific definition of libel and slander vary from place to place, but when you step over the line in your country, or their country, you can be sued.
Malware should be critized and outlawed, but better definitions and terminology really are needed.
Probably it will take a law or legislated regulation to protect ASW vendors from these malware makers.
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(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) | |
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deadi
Premium
join:2001-08-26
Perry, OH | lets vote! Why dont we, as advanced users, practice democracy and vote? Is it spyware or is it not?
Submit the results to the lawyers and let them decide.
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ERROR:Bad Command Or File Name, Go Stand In Corner. | |
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sweintz
Premium
join:2002-03-01
Hamden, CT
2 edits | Email the attorney who wrote the letter! The email for the attorney who wrote castle cops the letter is:
mark@ssjmlaw.com
Mark D. Hopkins
Telephone: (512) 347-1604
Fax: (512) 347-1676
The Overlook at Gaines Ranch
4330 S. Mopac, Ste. 150
Austin, Texas, 78735
Let them know any app that passes what URL's a person is visiting to a central ad server is SPYWARE, and as such, idownload IS SPYWARE! Let them know as a consumer that you hate idownload and isearch! | |
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mcfrisch
Revelare Pecunia
join:2000-07-02
Lakewood, OH | Re: Email the attorney who wrote the letter! Maybe he is a member of the "Church" of Scientology. Sounds like he is using their techniques. I bet you a dollar this is laughed out of court:) {j/k}
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Mcfrisch(Cox HSI : Cleveland) | |
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sweintz
Premium
join:2002-03-01
Hamden, CT
| Re: Email the attorney who wrote the letter! He looks to be very young from his picture on their website.
Given the blatantly false assertions in his letter to Castle Cop (specifically his assertions about the definition of spyware - clearly due to lack of research on his part) i'd say their firm is possibly exposing themselves to a malpractice suit from idownload once the case is lost (if it goes to court)! | |
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schnuggles
Stays Crunchy In Milk
join:2003-06-07
Deming, NM
| Basic research Federal rule of civil procedure 11, section 1.
(lawsuit) "is not being presented for any improper purpose, such as to harass or to cause unnecessary delay or needless increase in the cost of litigation."
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Salus Populi Suprema Est Lex-Cicero (106 BC - 43 BC) | |
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Vvian Kalyss
join:2003-10-14
Stage 5.0
clubs:
| Feh. [rant]
They can pressure other companies as much as they like, but we now live in an age of globally and publicly accessible forums. The sheer volume of posts coming from all quarters, denouncing their slapdash software, will prevail over their helpless cries of protest.
It won't take long for these bullying companies to see their "products" on public shitlists and their reputations trashed for good.
This is how we will punish those scumware outfits who think they can silence others or buy their way out - by mob rule and public lynchings.
You want to antagonise us? BRING IT ON.
[/rant]
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Mikami Vvian, resident Girlfriend of Steel, care of the Tokyo-3 Middle Daughters Club | |
| Stumbles
join:2002-12-17
Port Saint Lucie, FL
| At least you'll know Corporate anti-spyware vendors seem unwilling to stand up to the industry and critics are being threatened. Does the future have us quietly huddled in IRC channels exchanging open-source applications that remove all marketing fodder without apology?
With no doubt in my mind, it will eventually come to that. It has been shown over and over, no matter how loud the voices. The graft that exists with businesses and congress, the right thing will not be done.
At the minimum such sleazy businesses will try their best to maneuver their perceptions to the same realm as pornography. Everyone knows what porno is but try legislating it. | |
| 
slashguest
@demon.nl
| isn't spyware wiretapping? And is wiretapping strictly regulated? Communications on the internet go two ways, one can be the browser opening specific url's. If this crap sends those urls to CrapHQ, isn't that intercepting my communications?
Why should that be less bad than installing a keylogger or cutting and tapping a landline, or bugging an office.
Those will send you to jail, so why are these people still driving around in their lexi?
Oh and BTW: you are being slashdotted  | |
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
| Re: isn't spyware wiretapping? That is the thing -- the alleged crime isn't spying.
Rather, the alleged crime is installing without permission.
And the terminology being used has, as posts here reveal, and I suppose in the legal sense "prove", that the public is being mislead and confused by the terminology used.
So better terminology is needed.
That said, those who install via drive by installs still need to face penalities.
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(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) | |
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Phucker1
@sympatico.ca
|  Spread the word
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abby normal
@airband.net
|  Microsoft's antispyware entry
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| | CyberCoder
join:2005-02-23
Tallahassee, FL
| Re: Microsoft's antispyware entry ... is itself akin to the problem of spyware.
Micro$oft seems to be taking the position that although they aren't good enough to make Windows impervious to this kind of attack, the will sell you additional functionality to protect you from spyware. Providing, of course, that the spyware doesn't slip through the cracks that they've already acknowledge they cannot fix and does permanent damage to your system. | |
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abby normal
@airband.net | Re: Microsoft's antispyware entry Oops. Forgot a point. When Microsoft is the last spyware watcher who will catch Microsoft's spyware? | |
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
| MS Entry Not Stopping You Supporting Other Prodcts So carry on supporting to your favorite anti-spyware product through Paypal.
The MS product is only an additional ASW product.
There is nothing saying you must install or, or that you can't continue to use and support other ASW products.
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(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) | |
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Splynncryth
 from:
keith2468 
| need a legal spyware def the fundamental problem is a lack of a legally recognized definition for spyware. But to make life easier on the consumer, there should be a set of guidelines so your product is not spyware.
1) 200 words or less describing the product
2) full disclosure in those 200 words as to what your product does
3) must be installed by the user via a 'professional' installer program complete with logs as to files installed and changes made to the registry
4) uninstaller that registers itself with the add/remove components control panel item. No hidden uninstall.exe files to skirt the uninstaller requirement.
furthermore, if your product installs itself via an exploit, fails to fully disclose all tasks, is packet sniffed and found to be sending more data that they claim, your program is classified as a virus, and you can be prosecuted for jail time. And as it was put in office space, send them to "federal pound you in the ass prison". | |
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB | Re: Vigilance You should pop over to the BBR Security forum and follow the steps in the "Help My Computer is Infected or Hijacked". | |
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Anonymous Coward
@216.185.x.x
| I should be sick. I'm laughing too hard right now. People actually thinking that Microsoft is the answer. That's a scary thought, compounded with the latest anti-spyware bill. You do release that the current revision of the bill leaves gaping holes for companies, like Microsoft, to scan your computer (with or without your permission) for software or files "they" deem illegal? But, hey, it'll outlaw anything deemed "spyware".
Don't believe me, check out...
»yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=···&tid=219 | |
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CS student at WCU
@152.30.x.x
| Spyware and EULA | |
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abby normal
@airband.net | Re: Spyware and EULA Ah. So you want to work for Microsoft... | |
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
| Better Terminology Needed What does "installing via the WMP DRM vulnerability" have to do with spying?
Nothing. Spying would be capturing names, account numbers, email, IMs, etc.
So they have a point that calling the product "spyware" is libel (assuming there is nothing other than how it installs to complain about).
The offense is unauthorized tampering with a computer, stealing computer services, and mis-leading computers.
Regarding how malicious "adware" is, there are many legitimate adware products most of us use and enjoy, the free versions of: RealPlayer, QuickTime, Opera, Yahoo Messenger, and even Adobe Acrobat Reader (although the ads are pretty small in the last case).
The problem for most of us isn't that some adware product pays for itself by advertising.
The problem is when the product:
1. installs without explicit permission,
2. doesn't uninstall via the standard add/remove programs interface,
3. puts up advertising outside of its own windows, and
4. captures personal information (IP address, line condition, and game being played not counting as personal information in my book).
5. tries to hide the fact that it is running
6. resists removal
My thoughts on this aren't complete, but my feeling is a scoring system, where the maker or distributer of a product offending 3 or more of those factors, or point 1, should face fines and sanctions.
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(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) | |
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
| And Legislation Needed It is probably going to come down to us needing legislation or government regulations to define what illegal software is.
This would be just as there are government regulations (or legislation) around the world define which guns, cars, motorcycles, aircraft, electric appliances, etc., are permitted and which are prohibited in each country.
With no legal regulation or definitions, and with the malware vendor having the choice of which jurisdiction to bring the suit in, ASW companies (including big ones like MS, Symantec, CA) will be in a vulnerable position. Maybe, even with all their financial resources, a loosing position.
We can wish it wasn't like that, but that is just wasting our time.
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(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) | |
| CyberSchnook6
Upon Reflection, I Do Not Wish To Post.
Premium
join:2004-11-21 | Classification? easy: CRAPWARE | |
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Vigilance
