TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
1 edit |  Full re-install has to end if Firefox to be safe
When you go to the link mentioned in the story, I found an interesting comment about a Firefox flaw that needs fixing. And that is that a full re-install of the product is needed after every little fix comes out for the product. What Firefox needs is a system that can implement minor releases with a system that can replace portions of the code.
»weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/arch···880.html
I can't remember any application with worse update system than Firefox. With 14 MB in less than two months you really can't expect your dial-up users to be up to date.
Good occasion is that it is unlikely that there won't be spyware for Firefox for some time, so you can do something about that. But if you don't take this case urgently (read it 1.1) you're risking safeness of your users.
Oh, not to forget that update system is bad not just from the point of its bulkniess, but also from the point of its inteface.
It is redicilous that MS is taking a strong win in something that should be your area.
Posted by: Ivan Icin on April 2, 2005 11:53 AM
I fully agree.
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osme
Premium
join:2001-09-07
Hamilton, ON | Re: Full re-install has to end if Firefox to be sa
Other than download size, though, it makes little difference. It retains your settings, bookmarks and plugins, the only thing I have to do is delete the setup file from my desktop when it's done. Works for me. |
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Dryvlyne
Far Beyond Driven
Premium
join:2004-08-30
Newark, OH
| reply to TKJunkMail
Hmm, I didn't have to do a full re-install when I update from 1.0.1 to 1.0.2. I think they just say to do that as a precaution. I did have to re-download the entire setup installer, although that was no big deal cause I'm on DSL  |
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Tech-2005
@pacbell.n
thumbs down from:
bokamba 
| reply to TKJunkMail
Why are you using dialup to download Firefox ? Why would you bother with Broadband Reports web site if you only use dialup ? Firefox downloads in about 10 seconds for me and for most people on BBR. I don't see how you can compare the monstrous 90MB Service Pack 2 downloads as a download "WIN" for Microsoft over independent programming groups for Firefox. Ultimately, I don't really understand the value in your posting those particular comments. |
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SpitefulCrow
Insert Witty Tag Here
Premium
join:2003-06-04
Berkeley, CA
| reply to TKJunkMail
That Ivan guy was trolling the weblog, didn't you read the rest of the comments? He wanted a free lunch in terms of a new feature/improvement now, spewed "advice" on the subject, and then said he didn't want to help add this feature to the project. Useless comments.
A binary patch system is in the works for release sometime around Firefox 1.5, if what the replies to Mr. Icin said were correct. Until then, you have broadband, 14MB takes less than 30 seconds to download over a decent cable connection, so you can put up with it until then. Just think of the fact that since I use Gentoo Linux, I have to download a 30-something MB source code package and compile it to install these minor updates. |
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jansm38
Vn800-B
Premium
join:2003-05-19
Blackwood, NJ
| reply to Tech-2005
said by Tech-2005:
Why are you using dialup to download Firefox ? Why would you bother with Broadband Reports web site if you only use dialup ? Firefox downloads in about 10 seconds for me and for most people on BBR. I don't see how you can compare the monstrous 90MB Service Pack 2 downloads as a download "WIN" for Microsoft over independent programming groups for Firefox. Ultimately, I don't really understand the value in your posting those particular comments.
There are dial-up forums on BBR as well as other non broadband related formums. I think it's a very valid point that people on dialup will be very reluctant to download large updates. |
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osme
Premium
join:2001-09-07
Hamilton, ON | reply to SpitefulCrow
14MB is the total size of all the updates thus far. The whole thing is still less than 5MB, which takes less than half an hour on dialup. This guy is literally making a big deal out of nothing. |
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Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
Premium
join:2003-05-31
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Look at it this way...
For a work in progress I think FF has made some pretty good strides in the past year and things are improving all of the time.
I do not mind the 5 min clean install if I so chose.
Soon enough the dynamic update feature will be in palce and the nay sayers will just find something else to bitch about.
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sherman10570
join:2000-10-15
Pleasantville, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Dial-Up Updates
It should be noted that most people probably have broadband already and don't know it - Verizon Wireless. I'm not sure about the other carriers, but VZW offers free (as in used minutes / unlimited off-peak) ISDN-like service over their wireless network. Using a USB cable with my LG VX6000, I can get 10-15 kilobytes/sec download for no additional monthly charge.
14MB isn't that bad at 15k/sec. For $80/month, Verizon also offers their 300-500 kilobit/sec (40-60 kilobytes/sec) service in select major markets (ISDN-like service in the others).
While I sympathize with users stuck without broadband, most companies have made the jump into large file sizes for drivers/updates/etc:
Microsoft Windows XP SP2: 266MB
Microsoft Windows 2000 SP4: 129MB
Microsoft Office 2003 SP1: 72MB
Microsoft DirectX 9.0c: 34MB
NVIDIA 71.84 Video Driver: 18MB
ATI 5.3 Video Driver (Full package): 30MB
ATI 5.3 Video Driver (Driver only): 8MB
- Sherman
==================================================
Edit: Link to myvzw.com speed test results here @ BBR (mine tested 110/110) |
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some guy
@milwwi.ameritech
| Just in time
i was just getting used to my current settings after 1.01 broke all my extensions, and then 1.02 broke completely and lost my bookmarks too. i can't wait for 1.03 to break everything again!
thank god for firefox, always keeping me from getting bored by forcing an hour or more work fixing it every time they have a new version |
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Rammer
Premium
join:2001-03-06
clubs: 
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to Tech-2005
Re: Full re-install has to end if Firefox to be sa
i was on dial up for years and was member of bbr also for years
maybe he was like me i had no other connection but dial up
and i looked here on these forums almost every day
for years also
i did it too keep up on things as you learn a lot here
so why should he not be here
i have never seen any thing that says --dial up --not allowed here
people who wish too learn should do what ever it takes
to further the minds |
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ced06
join:2004-03-12
Towanda, PA
| updater
Updating every month is getting really annoying. Yes, it's great that they fix bugs, but come on. I'm on dialup and downloading 15MB takes me nearly two hours.
On top of that, the auto-updater never works. And even if you do donwload the .exe you still have to uninstall Firefox, delete your profile folders, and reinstall or risk incompatibilities. |
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glycolized
join:2002-07-18
Kalamazoo, MI
| said by ced06 :On top of that, the auto-updater never works. And even if you do donwload the .exe you still have to uninstall Firefox, delete your profile folders, and reinstall or risk incompatibilities. I agree with this. I think the auto-updater should be disabled until it really works as an updater. Uninstalling/reinstalling is not updating, in my book.
My mother and aunt are both dialup users. I hate sitting around downloading new versions of Firefox every visit (seeing as how I forget to put it on my thumb drive). A true update will be nice - I can wait 'til v1.5 or so, I guess. |
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Leicafl
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Miami, FL | Just updated
I just updated to 1.02 without a hitch. Didn't have to uninstall anything first. Just downloaded the new version and installed right over the previous version. Nothing was lost. So not quite sure what all the hubbub is about??? |
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reub2000
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Evanston, IL
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Full re-install has to end if Firefox to be sa
Obviously Microsofts updating thingys aren't good enough.
Look at what I found in my apache logs:
"GET /default.ida?XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
*XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX
*XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u90
*90%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u9090%u8190%u00c3%u0003%u8b00%u531b%u53
*ff%u0078%u0000%u00=a HTTP/1.0" 404 278
(*) WARNING 1 long line(s) split |
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jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
 ·surpasshosting
 ·ViaTalk
| You're missing the point...
Since Firefox requires a full download of the program each and every time a point release (minor patch) comes out, they can continue pumping their numbers up!! This month:
"We are thrilled to report that our download figures are up 70% this month!"
(oh, and 99.99% of those were people already using the old version who downloaded it 6 months ago. We've actually counted the same people about 8 times over). |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| said by jester121 : This month: "We are thrilled to report that our download figures are up 70% this month!" We've actually counted the same people about 8 times over). If what you write is true, then I'm a little more than disappointed with the FF folks 
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to reub2000
Re: Full re-install has to end if Firefox to be sa
said by reub2000 :Obviously Microsofts updating thingys aren't good enough. Look at what I found in my apache logs: "GET /default.ida?XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
*XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXX
*XX
*XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u
*90
*90%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u9090%u8190%u00c3%u0003%u8b00%u531b%u
*53
*ff%u0078%u0000%u00=a HTTP/1.0" 404 278
(*) WARNING 1 long line(s) split
(*) WARNING 3 long line(s) split Given the number of pirated (and unpatched) copies of Windows running around out there, the above log entry says nothing about Microsoft's "updating thingy".
-tom
--
"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to some guy
Re: Just in time
said by some guy:
i was just getting used to my current settings after 1.01 broke all my extensions, and then 1.02 broke completely and lost my bookmarks too. i can't wait for 1.03 to break everything again!
thank god for firefox, always keeping me from getting bored by forcing an hour or more work fixing it every time they have a new version
I really don't think that's FireFox - sounds more like PEBKAC problems. I've yet to run into the kind of problems you have.
-tom
--
"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to Leicafl
Re: Just updated
said by Leicafl :I just updated to 1.02 without a hitch. Didn't have to uninstall anything first. Just downloaded the new version and installed right over the previous version. Nothing was lost. So not quite sure what all the hubbub is about??? Open up the "Add/Remove Programs" tool. You'll most likely see that your registry thinks there are several different versions of FireFox installed.
-tom
--
"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) |
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