GlenQuagmire
Giggidy Giggidy Giggidy Goo
Premium
join:2004-02-16
Grand Rapids, MI | Baby Sitting
Are ISP going to have to start baby sitting me? |
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LeftOfSanity
@208.17.x.x
 from:
JPuppy 
| Here we go.....
Of course.....Patriot Act was phase 1. Hope all who support it like what they get. |
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footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO | already there
ISPs are already monitoring you and keeping a log of your activities, just in case they get sued. Sounds like all this proposed law is doing is asking them not to delete the stuff.
To me, no big deal. There is no privacy on the net. |
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Ken Sohryu
Darkest Days
join:2001-01-07
Chicago, IL | reply to LeftOfSanity
Re: Here we go.....
Hah. They'll be too busy eating their freedom fries to notice. |
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cc_skavenger896
@172.0.x.x
| Watching me...
Oh, great. So what, the ISPs are going to forward all my mail to themselves? What about all my paid porn passwords, are they going to get them to? So much for secure websites, pgp signatures, and any other online security tools. Don't they understand that this will make identity theft even easier?? |
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King75
King Of All And Nothing
Premium
join:2004-07-31
Stevensville, MD
clubs: | Your problem is you assume they care. Even though they will probably fight it to "protect consumer rights" or in plain English they don't want to pay to keep all that information for so long. |
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Unregistered User
| reply to footballdude
Re: already there
No, they're not. They usually only keep enough records so they can do billing at the end of each month. I don't think you understand what this entails, so I'll tell you. Under this scheme, ISPs would be required to keep:
The URL of every Web page you visit
The address of every e-mail you send
Every other TCP/IP connection your computer makes
This is a _massive_ amount of data, and it'll take a massive amount of storage. It'll allow anyone with it to reconstruct almost every activity you conducted in a given period of time.
What gets me in all this is the defeatist attitude I see in response to all this. Go over and read Slashdot to see what I mean. There are people willing to stand up and die for what they believe in in countries far more repressive than ours, yet most people here won't even lift a finger to stop something they don't agree with. In just over a year, we've seen governments in Georgia, Ukraine, Kyrryzstan, and Bolivia toppled by people hitting the streets, yet all we do is sit and moan. What's wrong with us? |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| reply to footballdude
said by footballdude :To me, no big deal. There is no privacy on the net. You're right. Doing illegal activity on the Internet and getting busted months after the fact due to log retention is no different than doing illegal activity in a public place and getting busted because a camera recorded the activity. There is no legal right to privacy when you are in a public place.
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Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! |
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sharkpedal
join:2005-05-04
PA
| reply to King75
Re: Watching me...
"they don't want to pay to keep all that information for so long."
Does the DOJ realize how much information that would be? Your talking terabytes worth of log files and for what to catch criminals? This leads to too much information.
I certainly dont want my Instant Messaging, email and browsing to be archived...thats like recording every phone conversation I have without telling me before hand. This $hit wreaks of invasion of privacy.
Leave that thing alone
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
 ·Speakeasy
| Damn, My ISP Bill Ain't High Enough??
So, where are the TeraBytes of storage to store all these logs going to come from?? Yup, you got it: the subscribers' wallets. Oh, and pissed at your ISPs performance, now? Think how bad it will be when they have to log every packet and send ship those logs over the network to a centralized logging center.
Bleah.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to sharkpedal
Re: Watching me...
said by sharkpedal :"they don't want to pay to keep all that information for so long." Does the DOJ realize how much information that would be? Your talking terabytes worth of log files and for what to catch criminals? This leads to too much information. I certainly dont want my Instant Messaging, email and browsing to be archived...thats like recording every phone conversation I have without telling me before hand. This $hit wreaks of invasion of privacy. Leave that thing alone While DoJ might like this, I gotta think that NSA won't. Why? NSA buys PetaBytes of storage every year. If they had to compete with thousands of network providers having to each buy TeraBytes of storage to satisfy the DoJ... Well, there's only so much production capacity out there. Either the DoJ's not going to be satisfiable or the NSA's not going to be able to do their yearly storage acquisitions.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) |
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Unregistered User
| reply to pnh102
Re: already there
Um, no. This would be something the government could trawl through if they suspect that you did something suspicious. Remember, they want to be able to see library records without a warrant, so there's no reason to think this is any different. Do you really want them to know what Web sites you've been looking at, who you've been e-mailing, etc.? Suppose they wanted to know the names of every person who visited Indymedia during a period of time. Easy. First, get Indymedia's Web logs. That gives a list of times and IP addresses. Next, check the logs of those ISPs at those times, and you have a complete list of subscribers who visited that site and the pages they viewed. And this can all be done more or less automatically by using search tools.
If this doesn't scare you, it should. |
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Alphy
join:2001-12-31
Troy, MI | reply to nixen
Re: Damn, My ISP Bill Ain't High Enough??
The line between benign and malignant when it comes to privacy laws in the United States becomes thinner every day. |
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aeiouy
join:2004-08-05
Fort Worth, TX | reply to nixen
I guess we will just consider it a criminal tax.
Everyone will need to pay highe rates just so they might have the opportunity to gain some information on potential criminal acts.
Genius. |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| said by aeiouy :I guess we will just consider it a criminal tax. Everyone will need to pay highe rates just so they might have the opportunity to gain some information on potential criminal acts. Genius. Every day, "why not give up this? You might be a little safer because of it... At least after the fact".
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) |
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baj475
join:2004-11-02
Chico, CA
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
| reply to pnh102
Re: already there
said by footballdude :There is no legal right to privacy when you are in a public place. Not entirely true. See Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347 (1967) |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| reply to Alphy
Re: Damn, My ISP Bill Ain't High Enough??
said by Alphy :The line between benign and malignant when it comes to privacy laws in the United States becomes thinner every day. Yes, and the knuckle-dragging denizens known as BushCo WarOnTerror Bots will be along shortly to provide ample ignorance argument on why it is a good thing in general for an ISP to compile tracking logs of every single thing a web surfer does while using the Internet.
This is what reality looks like when a government has declared war on its people and they won't know it until it's too late.
.
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"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose." -- Frederick Douglass |
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ricep5
Premium
join:2000-08-07
Jacksonville, FL
·AT&T Southeast
·AT&T CallVantage
·VoicePulse
·Comcast Formerly ..
| reply to Unregistered User
Re: already there
You assume that there alot of people interested in what you do online. The Feds are only interested in illegal activities and they still have to get permission from a judge to get the info.
While you moan about the lack of finger lifting in the US, I also think you place too much self importance on your internet activities.
No one person, corporation or government has the resources to go out collect, analyze and report on individual internet behavior for a whole country. (Only China thinks they can)
They would find a wasteland of benign chat, emails full of personal drivel and site logs full of bid updates from eBay. Hardly profound stuff.
Paranoia can be healthy when kept in perspective. When you assume everyone wants to know everything about you personally, then it has begun to reach something less healthy. |
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Unregisterd User
| No, I don't think anyone necessarily wants to know what I do online. I think IT'S NONE OF THEIR DAMN BUSINESS WHAT I DO ONLINE! The government has no business whatsoever even asking that this data be collected, period. They also have no business being able to secretly trawl through library book and Internet records, but they can. That's what the House is trying to overturn in the last few days. Well, the book part, at least. The Internet snooping is apparently OK, so that activity wasn't barred in the House bill. Of course, Bush has threatened to veto it. I guess he feels that what you read at the library is the Feds' business. I mean, we need to know when someone reads something controversial. And no, you don't have to be under a criminal investigation of having committed a crime, you just have to be a suspected terrorist.
This isn't the kind of country I want to live in. It reminds me too much of the old USSR. |
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footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO | said by Unregisterd User:
This isn't the kind of country I want to live in. It reminds me too much of the old USSR. OMG, it's Dick Durbin! |
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