gpancner
join:2001-09-27
Nine Mile Falls, WA | Freedom & Security
Those who trade freedom for security will get neither.
Who was the guy who said this years ago? |
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Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Sarasota, FL
clubs:
| Are we on a roll?
It seems to me the FCC has been on a roll of mandating new costs for VoIP and ISPs (particularly smaller ISPs) while only increasing telco profits. (DSL deregulation, 911 compliance that hits only VoIPs, now this)
Looks like that lobby money is paying off.
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AMD A64 3200+/ MSI K8N Neo Platinum/ 2x 512Mb Kingston HyperX PC4000/ WD 74Gb Raptor/ PNY 6800GT/Gainward 5200PCI/ Antec 550 True Control/Custom water cooler |
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GhostDoggy
join:2005-05-11
Duluth, GA
| Wouldn't this be called packet-tap?
Unless they plan to subject the new rules to continued tapping into the copper wiring of said POTS and coax lines, I see this as a software implementation opportunity that could easily be hacked for illegal tapping--especially is its Cisco based.  |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| reply to gpancner
Re: Freedom & Security
Benjamin Franklin
The quote reads like this.
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Benjamin Franklin
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
1 edit |  FCC ruling expected and logical
Law enforcement, with a court order, has always had the right to tap telecommunications conversations. The change in technology doesn't change that. Whether that communications is POTS, VOIP, emails, chat sessions, etc. Law enforcement, with federal assistance(FCC) is just making sure that communications providers maintain the ability to follow those court orders. Don't like the law( »www.fcc.gov/calea/ )? Then ask your Congressman to get it changed.
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My Web Page
Join Red Room Forum |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| CALEA + PATRIOT ACT = TYRANNY
For those who aren't familiar with CALEA, it was forced out to the manufacturers of telecom equipment back in 1990, supposedly to allow the government to 'track organized crime'. Basically it does several things to the equipment, to allow taps, and more importantly, prevent a tap detection from working (i.e. on cell towers, the signal is 'overpowered' so when a tap is placed, normal detection methods (which measure levels) don't detect it. CALEA also requires that equipment can be configured to monitor and record any phone calls made to/from a phone number, etc. Basically, those people listening on phone calls you see in the movies have been completely automated.
This new act is just an expansion, as CALEA did not allow them to tap your cable modem, which was driving them nuts. Of course, 'accommodating' a data connection is a fundamentally different process than accommodating a POTS line tap. The average end user today has the ability to nullify the contents of the conversation (via encryption) right from their desktop. My prediction, terrifying as it is, is that crypto will be outlawed for the home user, in the interest of 'preventing terrorism'.
My question is.. who watches the watchers? Why are we giving up 200+ years of freedom from search and seizure and allowing a police state to form? Why are we giving the government unprecedented powers to monitor us? Are we so terrified of terrorism that we will give up all those things that made this country what it is? If so, the terrorist have already won. We have lost our freedoms, which is what they wanted in the first place.
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Grand Poobah |
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slimpickinz
join:2003-11-29
Conyers, GA
| reply to TKJunkMail
Very Good Point!
Here, I will make it easier for all....
»www.visi.com/juan/congress/.
Let them know how you feel, they will go where the votes are.
-SlimP-
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Visit Us Here! |
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tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
·Comcast
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: FCC ruling expected and logical
said by TKJunkMail  :Law enforcement, with a court order, has always had the right to tap telecommunications conversations. More worrisome, is that under the Patriot act, 'court order' no longer requires a judge, or court oversight.
everyone agrees (or should IMHO) that wiretaps are nessesary law enforcement tools, but even the best agency will eventually abuse the power without supervision. |
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Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Sarasota, FL
clubs:
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :Law enforcement, with a court order, has always had the right to tap telecommunications conversations. The change in technology doesn't change that. Whether that communications is POTS, VOIP, emails, chat sessions, etc. Law enforcement, with federal assistance(FCC) is just making sure that communications providers maintain the ability to follow those court orders. And while I agree with what you've said, I don't think this is to make sure providers comply, it's to force private industry to spend more money to make it EASIER to monitor under court order. Nothing in our current technology would prevent the FBI from planting a keystroke logger on my PC, a bug in my phone itself, etc. This just allows them to take the easy road and put the tap at the ISP rather than in my home. (which would be subject to greater scrutiny on the warrant to enter)
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AMD A64 3200+/ MSI K8N Neo Platinum/ 2x 512Mb Kingston HyperX PC4000/ WD 74Gb Raptor/ PNY 6800GT/Gainward 5200PCI/ Antec 550 True Control/Custom water cooler |
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Usama Bin Laden
@mindspring.com | phone taps
when VOIP is illegal only good muslins will have VOIP. |
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The Beer
I Love It When A Plan Comes Together
Premium
join:2001-07-24
Omaha, NE
clubs:
 ·ViaTalk
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: FCC ruling expected and logical
"Law enforcement, with a court order, has always had the right to tap telecommunications conversations."
Problem is VOIP has been defined by the FCC as a information service (See Pulver order), AKA data, not Telecomm.
I really don't care if they tap my calls to mom, I do care if this is a prelude to calling it phone service at the FCC. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
 ·AT&T Southeast
| reply to G_Poobah
Re: CALEA + PATRIOT ACT = TYRANNY
I would guess that this will be nothing more than a "user-friendly" glorified packet sniffer. I don't see this as a big deal and honestly, I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner. A court order will still be required. And if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about.
As far as outlawing crypto...I seriously doubt that happens. No more 128 bit encryption for my webpage? Not likely. Not that it really matters anyway. Haven't you heard the that there's no encryption out there that the NSA hasn't already broken? |
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kewlkeed
Grouch
Premium
join:2005-02-05
Knowlton, QC
| reply to G_Poobah
said by G_Poobah :My question is.. who watches the watchers? Why are we giving up 200+ years of freedom from search and seizure and allowing a police state to form? Why are we giving the government unprecedented powers to monitor us? Are we so terrified of terrorism that we will give up all those things that made this country what it is? If so, the terrorist have already won. We have lost our freedoms, which is what they wanted in the first place. Amen! Couldn't have said it better. |
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Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA | Oh well...
So I guess the dreaded 'terrorists' will have to use some other means to communicate.
BTW I seriously doubt they would ever use Vonage anyway because if they did India would have been their #1 target by now... |
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pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
Premium
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to G_Poobah
Re: CALEA + PATRIOT ACT = TYRANNY
said by G_Poobah :My question is.. who watches the watchers? Why are we giving up 200+ years of freedom from search and seizure and allowing a police state to form? Why are we giving the government unprecedented powers to monitor us? Are we so terrified of terrorism that we will give up all those things that made this country what it is? If so, the terrorist have already won. We have lost our freedoms, which is what they wanted in the first place. AMEN!! I hear ya there, we have (slowly, over many years) given up or have had taken many of our personal rights that this country's forefathers fought and died for. We, as a soceity tend to let the little things go with the excuse of "oh this will help the police do this, or that will allow the gov't to do that' when in fact all it's doing (over time and some master gov't plan) is taking our right to privacy and freedom from unwarranted search and seizure, et al.
--
Webmaster Steve
- - - - - - - - - - - -
»ppnhosting.com
»sphenterprizes.com
»pokemonpalace.net |
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gatzdon
join:2002-10-25
Lake Zurich, IL
| reply to openbox9
said by openbox9 :...if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about.... Maybe you should read the book "The Hacker Crackdown" by Bruce Sterling. He made a copy of his book available online at
»www.chriswaltrip.com/sterling/hackcrck.html
This book is a non-fiction book that investigated the collateral damage caused by the hacker crackdown that followed after AT&T had a meltdown of their long-distance network (which turned out to be a bug in their code, not due to hackers). Sure, many of the hackers out there got what they deserved, but in addition, other innocent people's lives were ruined due to the reckless actions of our government. Oddly enough, during all the evidence gathering, no AT&T server was ever seized, yet most of the activity (and records) took place on AT&T servers.
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$100 placed at 7 percent interest compounded quarterlyfor 200 years will increase to more than $100,000,000 --by which time it will be worth nothing.- Lazarus Long |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | FCC "promotes" encryption
Their little "order" will just give rise to more encryption used in such communications. |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| reply to BosstonesOwn
Re: Freedom & Security
In other news:
»sonic.net/augie/wpmu/dane/index.php
George Bush spoke at the annual Boy Scouts of American Jamboree, and announced the creation of the official “Republican Youth” - a new sub-branch of the army. Youth will be taught military skills and the conservative values of the Republican Party. As the war in Iraq progresses, and as freedom of movement, speech and thought here in the US is curtailed, the duties of the Republican Youth are expected to expand.
...
Wow, isn't that interesting?
-Dane |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| said by DaneJasper :Wow, isn't that interesting? Not really, and how is that link "news"?
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to JakCrow
Re: FCC "promotes" encryption
said by JakCrow :Their little "order" will just give rise to more encryption used in such communications. Except that, unless the people at both ends of the conversation are using home-built encryption/decryption sets, it buys nothing. Think about it: if encryption/decryption sets used are commercially produced, don't you think that they are going to have "back doors" into the encryption stream?
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) |
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