  TKJunkMail Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
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4 edits | Wash Post link broken - has "break char" in middle
Feel free to delete this post after correcting link in article.
"http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2<br>005/09/26/AR2005092601758.html" Link fixed »www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co···_pf.html
or
»www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co···758.html
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 B Premium,MVM join:2000-10-28
| Abalone
available to all for a nominal fee, have become what Anthony Riddle, executive director of the Alliance for Community Media in Washington, calls "the public square in the electronic age." I'd be interested in what numbers public access channels pull. I'd think they were teeny tiny / nonexistent.
The real "public square in the electronic age", as most know, is the Internet. And with the advent of audio and video (still wishing for a better vogue word) "podcasting", that's where people turn for interesting obscure stuff.
I really, really don't much care about "public access television".
-- B -- In a realm outside causality and function |
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  SRFireside
join:2001-01-19 Houston, TX
| Just because you do not care doesn't mean others feel the same way. When I was in Austin public access had a wealth of interesting shows (and odd-ball freaks). I don't think any avenue of community broadcasts should be taken down, and that includes public access channels.
The Internet is hardly a "public square in the electronic age" if you ask me. A public square denotes a local area where people gather or at least hear things in passing. On the Internet you have to specifically find a website, then download/stream whatever audio/visual content there is. Hardly something you can catch in passing. A cable channel on the other hand can be picked up by anybody in the area while they are channel surfing. Might sound like a stretch, but I caught onto Austin public access by channel surfing. Something that just wouldn't happen online. |
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 jhh
join:2005-05-25 Fargo, ND
| Damn,will no longer know when the Park dept meets
I don't mind one channel for city council meetings, city announcements, and school projects. But my city wants 4 of these lame channels when they cannot even fill enough programming blocks on one channel. Also people can make up there own minds on whether it is beneficial to have access to these channels. I am so sick of this fight and 911 not being avail on voip. If 911 is something you need, stick with bell. And if you see some sort of benefit from Public Access, then stick with cable. But I can live without any of these. |
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  calvoiper
join:2003-03-31 Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| What "public access" really is....
Copied from an earlier post I made about three weeks ago:
As for the "public access support" ... I say: GOOD RIDDANCE!
All I've seen from those types of programs funded by local franchise fees is a mess of programming which is either propaganda saying how great local politicians are, or a slop of programming fawning over various "non-profit" and "public interest" organizations that then, in turn, endorse, support, and work for those politicians who control the committees that run these channels. In other words, pure incest committed with public money.
To the extent that there are any "public access" channels that broadcast anything more worthwhile than the basement cr@p so wonderfully satirized on "Wayne's World", I say let them justify their existence as any public tax eating program should, and don't hide their expenses in an indirect slush fund of broadcasting asserts controlled at the top by local political honchos.
calvoiper -- VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! |
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  calvoiper
join:2003-03-31 Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| reply to SRFireside You want others to pay for your speech--why?
I see in your response a desire not just to enable viewpoints to be put out there, but to actually inflict them on people who may have no desire to hear them at all.
I don't believe freedom of speech includes the right to force anyone to listen, even if it's "just a taste."
I particularly don't think that subscribers should be forced to underwrite the dissemination of ideas with which they may not agree. Public access may be great in some communities--in which case it should be ranked in budget priorities along with police, fire, and street repair. In those terms, we'll see if it merits public funding.
calvoiper -- VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! |
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  marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO
| reply to B Re: Abalone
said by B :I'd be interested in what numbers public access channels pull. I'd think they were teeny tiny / nonexistent. The real "public square in the electronic age", as most know, is the Internet. And with the advent of audio and video (still wishing for a better vogue word) "podcasting", that's where people turn for interesting obscure stuff. I really, really don't much care about "public access television". -- B Well, in most metro cities, public access viewership pulls bigger viewer numbers than the total number of broadband subscribers.... Besides, one of the bigger functions of public access is that it provides cheap community training on video production and access to remote feed equipment. -- ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet telnet://whip.isca.uiowa.edu Member: American Association of Geographers, American Geophysical Union, American Water Resources Association |
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  marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO
| reply to jhh Re: Damn,will no longer know when the Park dept me
said by jhh :I don't mind one channel for city council meetings, city announcements, and school projects. But my city wants 4 of these lame channels when they cannot even fill enough programming blocks on one channel. Also people can make up there own minds on whether it is beneficial to have access to these channels. I am so sick of this fight and 911 not being avail on voip. If 911 is something you need, stick with bell. And if you see some sort of benefit from Public Access, then stick with cable. But I can live without any of these. Wrong kind of channel. You are talking about government access. Often times the number of channels there is more of a political problem than anything else(do you bump the school board meeting for the city council meeting and the city council meeting for graduation?). The issue above is that public access would no longer be available on cable under the state-level franchise agreements due to a lack of funding. -- ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet telnet://whip.isca.uiowa.edu Member: American Association of Geographers, American Geophysical Union, American Water Resources Association |
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 bogey780
join:2004-03-19 Here | IPTV
Well what's the channel limit with IPTV? Seems like you could get as many as network addressing allows since it's not a constant broadcast medium. |
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  marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO
| reply to calvoiper Re: What "public access" really is....
said by calvoiper :Copied from an earlier post I made about three weeks ago: As for the "public access support" ... I say: GOOD RIDDANCE! All I've seen from those types of programs funded by local franchise fees is a mess of programming which is either propaganda saying how great local politicians are, or a slop of programming fawning over various "non-profit" and "public interest" organizations that then, in turn, endorse, support, and work for those politicians who control the committees that run these channels. In other words, pure incest committed with public money. To the extent that there are any "public access" channels that broadcast anything more worthwhile than the basement cr@p so wonderfully satirized on "Wayne's World", I say let them justify their existence as any public tax eating program should, and don't hide their expenses in an indirect slush fund of broadcasting asserts controlled at the top by local political honchos. Public access is not funded by franchise fees, nor any other public funds. Public access funding goes direct from the cable company to a contracted non-government public access provider. Public access funding is not even mandatory for cable companies anymore but rather normally included as part of local level franchise negotiations.
Some areas produce high quality public access programming (easily competitive with PBS) while others, well, produce exactly what you are talking about. It all depends on the quality of the contracted public access provider. -- ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet telnet://whip.isca.uiowa.edu Member: American Association of Geographers, American Geophysical Union, American Water Resources Association |
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  marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO
| reply to calvoiper Re: You want others to pay for your speech--why?
said by calvoiper :I particularly don't think that subscribers should be forced to underwrite the dissemination of ideas with which they may not agree. Public access may be great in some communities--in which case it should be ranked in budget priorities along with police, fire, and street repair. In those terms, we'll see if it merits public funding. Public access is not funded by the government. It is funded by cable subscribers through pass through fees, but those funds are paid directly from the cable company to a non-governmental public access provider. -- ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet telnet://whip.isca.uiowa.edu Member: American Association of Geographers, American Geophysical Union, American Water Resources Association |
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 B Premium,MVM join:2000-10-28
1 edit | reply to SRFireside Re: Abalone
said by SRFireside :The Internet is hardly a "public square in the electronic age" if you ask me. A public square denotes a local area where people gather or at least hear things in passing. On the Internet you have to specifically find a website, then download/stream whatever audio/visual content there is. Hardly something you can catch in passing. A cable channel on the other hand can be picked up by anybody in the area while they are channel surfing. Might sound like a stretch, but I caught onto Austin public access by channel surfing. Something that just wouldn't happen online. You're serious? It "just wouldn't happen" that one would find something on the Internet or the web by merely "surfing" past it?
I have to imagine you're making a little joke.
A web site or RSS feed or chatroom etc. etc. etc. can be "picked up by anybody in the world" while they are surfing. And there are plenty of "local" sites like »nj.com that serve as focal points for smaller communities.
It seems the only advantage of public access TV is an existing production infrastructure and funding model.
My point is that for people who wish to have their say and produce content for audiences, it's ridiculous to play in a little pool of local TV when they can publish to the country or the world. Not to mention all the OTA and satellite viewers who will NEVER see the stuff -- this gives lie to your assertion that "a cable channel on the other hand can be picked up by anybody in the area while they are channel surfing". It's a very small userbase compared to the total number of TV sets in any given locale.
Admittedly, the current state of the art in video "podcasting" is rather primitive. But I expect that to change very rapidly.
Edit: I'm being too harsh -- I'm sure there's a fair amount of value in the current public access channels, and they're probably moderately easier than self-publishing. (Look guys I'm on TV!) But it always seemed like a toy to me, one that never really grew into much. My favorite public access show is "The Dare Show", part of The Amanda Show.
-- B |
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  calvoiper
join:2003-03-31 Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| reply to marigolds Re: What "public access" really is....
Public access is the forced expenditure of monies by the cable company--and it causes a direct increase in the cost of cable to consumers. The fact that in many jurisdictions it may pass directly from the cable company to some supposedly "non-governmental" body changes neither the fact that it is effectively a tax imposed on cable users or the fact that local politicians have a huge influence over what goes out on the "public" access channel.
I don't understand your claim that "public access" funding isn't mandatory--if it's in the franchise agreement, it's mandatory, regardless of WHY it's in the agreement. Cable companies don't object much to this hidden "tax" because they get to increase their rates to pay for it.
Your own argument exposes this for what it really is--just a hidden "tax" supporting your own preferred programs. To say that this isn't somehow a "tax" on end users is like imposing a fee of 3% of sales on grocery stores in Benton County and then claiming that it won't increase the price of groceries by 3%.
If local government is going to extract money from cable companies for "franchise privileges", fine. Let them include it in their budget and then let your dear old quaint "public access" channel compete with other city services for that money. THEN we'll find out how really valuable that channel is--and we'll also have some political accountability over how it's operated.
calvoiper -- VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! |
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  calvoiper
join:2003-03-31 Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| reply to marigolds Re: You want others to pay for your speech--why?
said by marigolds :Public access is not funded by the government. It is funded by cable subscribers through pass through fees, but those funds are paid directly from the cable company to a non-governmental public access provider. As I've explained in greater detail below, it's a government forced expenditure of money, the cost of which is passed on to cable consumers. It's a hidden tax, and it's all the more pernicious because it allows the political agenda of "public access" to hide the fact that it's funded with what should be tax revenue.
If you gave cable consumers the choice of not paying for public access, they wouldn't, and it would die. If you made the cable companies pay local government what they pay for "public access", the local governments would have the option to spend it on something more worthwhile, and "public access" would have to JUSTIFY ITS EXISTENCE, INSTEAD OF JUST SLURPING AWAY AT A POLITICALLY CORRECT SLUSH FUND. Either way, cable consumers and the public would be ahead.
calvoiper -- VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! |
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  J D McDorce Premium join:2001-12-29 Westland, MI
| reply to calvoiper Re: What "public access" really is....
said by calvoiper :Cable companies don't object much to this hidden "tax" because they get to increase their rates to pay for it. I don't have (nor do I want) access to your cable bill, but mine lists Public, Educational, Government Access Fee as a separate line item (which is optional under 47USC542(c)(2)), so raising rates to pay for PEG (at least in my location) could certainly raise some eyebrows. PEG Fees, as well as Franchise Fees, are often one of those surprises that customers find on their first cable bill, since they are not typically included in the published rates.
While YMMV, in my case Public Access is not a forced expenditure of monies by the cable company - it is a direct pass-through charge to the customer. Although, similar to Franchise Fees, that does not prevent the cable companies from reporting it as revenue. |
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  calvoiper
join:2003-03-31 Belvedere Tiburon, CA | OK--that strengthens my point--it's a tax on end users. -- VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! |
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  marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO
| reply to calvoiper Public access is not mandatory because the cable company is not required by the FCC to agree to any public access aspects of a franchise agreement. If the cable company asks to remove the public access funding, the city has to remove it.
It is a contract between the cable company and a contractor. The city does not become involved in the contract, only in the negotiations of the contract.
The PEG fee that J D McDorce mentioned is a different fee altogether. That is a pass through fee and can only be allocated towards the purchase of equipment for PEG entities. Public access contractors do not receive any of this funding (despite the name), but community television groups (still public, but different from public access) do. This money cannot be used towards operational or facilities costs, only equipment replacement. -- ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet telnet://whip.isca.uiowa.edu Member: American Association of Geographers, American Geophysical Union, American Water Resources Association |
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  marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO
| reply to calvoiper Re: You want others to pay for your speech--why?
said by calvoiper :If you gave cable consumers the choice of not paying for public access, they wouldn't, and it would die. You do have that choice. That is how pass through fees work. -- ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet telnet://whip.isca.uiowa.edu Member: American Association of Geographers, American Geophysical Union, American Water Resources Association |
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  calvoiper
join:2003-03-31 Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| reply to marigolds Re: What "public access" really is....
What basis do you have for your statement that "the city has to remove it"? In my area, Comcast is negotiating a new agreement and the government is still forcing them to support "public access."
Additionally, since the city lets the cable company pass the cost on, it's pretty much neutral to the cable company anyway. It's just the end users that get shafted with an additional tax to support "public access".
Face it--the cable companies do this to please the politicians, who then get to pump propaganda at public expense. And PUHLEEZE, no more of this "independent contractor" or "community group" crud. These are all cutie little groups cozy with the politicians that control their funding through franchise agreements.
calvoiper -- VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! |
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  calvoiper
join:2003-03-31 Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| reply to marigolds Re: You want others to pay for your speech--why?
said by marigolds :You do have that choice. That is how pass through fees work. No, I don't. It's a mandatory fee that I have to pay if I want cable--it's not an option that I can decline to pay. Maybe it is in Corvallis, but not here and not most places.
calvoiper -- VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! |
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