dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | "all 64-129kbps of it"???
WTF?
How long would you have to have that running to get to, say... 100GB? 200GB? 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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jose3030
Premium
join:1999-08-17
Manassas, VA | Not only that, but the "uploading" only starts when the voice convo starts.
So if you're dialing, its not using hardly any upload.
Up to the point of connection. |
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r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
St John'S, NL
 ·magicjack.com
 ·Cox HSI
·Insight Communicat..
 ·AT&T Midwest
| Providers need to change.
ISP's sould not be allowed to advertise unlimited service if they are going to bitch about people maxing out their connection.
There just needs to be a new law that forces companies to advertise their service as bandwidth capped, speed throttled, or Anti VOIP instead of unlimited if they practice these deceptive tactics. |
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The Way Out
join:2003-01-20
| If you want it that way, you should be prepared to pay for bandwidth on a per-megabit basis like everyone else does in the wholesale bandwidth market. If you're buying less than 10MBit, expect to pay between $100 and $250/Mbit. Don't forget to pay for the crossconnect between the provider and your home, and the 1 year contract so you don't jump ship.
The fact of the matter is that you're already getting a bargain at $15/mo for 1.5Mbit service (or even $50/mo for 8Mbit service). $10/Mbit is very cheap for Internet access. Get over yourself. |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to jose3030
Re: "all 64-129kbps of it"???
How long must you be yaking on the phone per day to even make a dent in your bandwidth? People call me, occasionally. But the calls don't last hours! Maybe 20 minutes 2-3 times per week.
Geez! I must be teh hog! Better not get VoIP, eh?
Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| reply to r81984
Re: Providers need to change.
agreed.
besides, voice packets are still just sent as packets with maybe a higher priority... it's not like someone's upping a (huge) file to many people/connections at once all night long.
this' one tiny little fraction of bandwidth... my net2phone for instance only up's about 10-24KB/sec. ...that's peanuts compared to the full 512kb (about 40KB in actuality) space on standard cox high speed. |
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bkhorn
2b1-Ask1
Premium,MVM
join:2000-03-24
Easton, PA
clubs:
| reply to The Way Out
That's like saying you can have all you can eat but only 1 piece of this and 1 piece of that. Unlimited is like All You Can Eat. NO Limits! Other wise it is false advertising.
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The sum IQ of the world is a constant.The more people, the more idiots. |
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gheezer
Compooters R Us
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Henrietta, NY
| Infrastructure is extremely expensive.
Bandwidth doesn't grow on trees.
A Typical Cisco Big honking router with lots of bells and whistles costs over 1/2 a million dollars. (An OC12 adaptor runs around 65,000 dollars). That OC12(655mb/s) costs close to a Hundred grand just to light up, there's also at least a 30,000 dollar monthly cost to that circuit too.
Also, It takes years build significant infrastructure to the neighborhoods.
Internet applications have expanded the home user's capabilities much faster than infrastructure has been able to expand. (bit torrent, streaming video, VoIP, etc etc).
For many, the sad reality is that traffic shaping or (blech) outright port filtering, is the only way to ensure fair usage to *all* customers....pending full scale rebuild completion.
All this infrastructure expansion must take place prior to any reliable and open architechture allowances take place.
At the same time, the ISP *must* remain profitable, or go out of business.
It's a difficult balancing act.
I tend to favor announcements to customers regarding limitations of infrastructure, however, this has the negative effect of driving away consumers, so the ISP tends to frown on making announcments which would drive down revenue.
It's a business still, the government (As in the Korean infrastructure model), is not pitching in. the ISP HAS to upgrade, while still keeping as many customers satisfied and on line as possible.
In many places in the US....expectations and capabilities of the consumer have increased beyond the infrastructure's current capabilities.
Open questions...if you are unlucky enough to live in such a location, what are the options you'd prefer?
1) Traffic management?
or
2) outright port filtering?
Remember, the ISP must turn a profit, or go out of business.
Just selling off to one of the BIG players is no guarantee of infrastructure upgrade either.
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Join the NAVY, see the world....It's mostly water! |
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jose3030
Premium
join:1999-08-17
Manassas, VA | reply to dadkins
Re: "all 64-129kbps of it"???
I mean, 64-128 kbps is like...
8-10Kb/sec
so like, talking for a good 1 hr will not even be that much. |
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gatzdon
join:2002-10-25
Lake Zurich, IL
| Most VOIP providers complain at about the 3000 minute mark, so
129kbps * 3000 min * 60 sec / 8 (bits/byte) / 1024 (KB/MB) / 1024 (MB/GB) = 2.7 GB per month.
Most don't use 3000 minutes and most don't use more than 90 kbs.
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$100 placed at 7 percent interest compounded quarterlyfor 200 years will increase to more than $100,000,000 --by which time it will be worth nothing.- Lazarus Long |
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Sgtslaughtr
join:2005-08-29
Knox, IN
| reply to The Way Out
Re: Providers need to change.
said by The Way Out  :The fact of the matter is that you're already getting a bargain at $15/mo for 1.5Mbit service (or even $50/mo for 8Mbit service). $10/Mbit is very cheap for Internet access. Get over yourself. $15 for 1.5 where the are you? I pay $55 for 384/1.5 thru sprint.
Anyways, two months ago I was downloading/uploading constantly with Bittorrent and I bet I had at least 300GB of transfer and sprint aint said a damn thing so I think I'll stick with them. The only other option is mediacom at 256/3000 for $55 a month But I need upload more than download. Not only do I use bittorrent but I host lan parties everyonce and a while....well 4 to 6 people but considering my area thats alot. The majority of people here are all using $299 dells that dont have agp slots so there is no hope for gaming for them. |
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The Way Out
join:2003-01-20
| reply to bkhorn
That's nice. You have two choices:
1.) They advertise unlimited, and you get unlimited. Expect to pay an appropriate amount for "unlimited." Probably somewhere around $100/Mbit. For an 8Mbit cable connection, expect to pay around $800/Month for your completely unlimited 8Mbit connection.
2.) They advertise unlimited, you get some fairly high limited amount. Pay something less than $100/Mbit and shut up.
You guys want cheap and unlimited. It doesn't exist. Get over yourselves. |
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The Way Out
join:2003-01-20 | reply to Sgtslaughtr
That's nice. You're still paying below market value (as far as low-quantity bandwidth goes) for 1.5Mbit of transit. If you need the bandwidth, then pay for it. If not, be happy with what you've got. |
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The Way Out
join:2003-01-20 | reply to gheezer
Re: Infrastructure is extremely expensive.
THANK YOU. Finally someone with a clue. |
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jose3030
Premium
join:1999-08-17
Manassas, VA | reply to gatzdon
Re: "all 64-129kbps of it"???
3000 minutes?
damn.
thats a lot of talking , good god. |
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packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs: | reply to gheezer
Re: Infrastructure is extremely expensive.
If you want to Start Plugging BIG IRON do you know what the ROI is on those devices?
But you bring up a good point.. OVER priced Wholesale pricing.
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Who do you want to pay off today? |
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Tsume
join:2004-02-23
Johnson City, TN
·Embarq
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
| reply to The Way Out
Re: Providers need to change.
I'm pretty sure they want them to stop using the word unlimited when it's not unlimited.
Cheap and unlimited is nice, but doesn't happen. Anyone advertising a cheap service as unlimited is falsely advertising, because that's a service they can't provide. That's the issue here.
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"True warriors do not follow paths, they make them. It is not just their desire, it is their nature." (Battletech) |
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radarman
join:2005-06-01
Odenton, MD
| reply to The Way Out
No, I would actually like an option 3. Sell the service based on what it is - not on hype. If you are only 100Gb/month, then advertise the fact. Don't send a stupid letter months after the fact.
Basically, put the "hidden" caps and what not in the advertising. Hell, I'm not picky - they could print it in that typical 6-point legalese type if they want, just make sure its there.
To me, to offer an unlimited service - with no caveats - is to offer just that. I don't mind the caveats, so long as I am aware of them. I don't expect truly "unlimited" service for only $30-$40/mo - but I do wish ISP's would make the actual limits more clear. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to gheezer
Re: Infrastructure is extremely expensive.
A well thought out post except for one thing:
IT DOES NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION OF DECEPTIVE ADVERTISEMENT!!!!
When you say it is "unlimited", then mean it. If later, the business model does not agree with it, then change it. BUT also change the advertising since it is no longer "unlimited."
Will people still sign up for limited internet? Maybe, maybe not.
No one disagrees that bandwidth costs money. No one disagrees that quipment costs money. What we disagree with is the selling of an "unlimited" pipe and then making it limited. |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
·Charter Pipeline
| reply to The Way Out
Re: Providers need to change.
said by The Way Out :That's nice. You're still paying below market value (as far as low-quantity bandwidth goes) for 1.5Mbit of transit. If you need the bandwidth, then pay for it. If not, be happy with what you've got. No, he's not paying below market value. These are two entirely different markets.
People who pay high dollar for Internet access are businesses and people who use their access to make money. They pay for the reliability and throughput of that connection.
Residential users pay for access and "perks". They pay what they do because most residential users don't use the connection a "data center" would.
Your reasoning is flawed. Apples to oranges.
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:: my trivial ramblings :: |
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