TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
4 edits |  The bidders won't like "open network" requirement
Portland is looking not only for a company that is willing to foot the entire cost of the project but one that will also build an open network, one over which competing ISPs can deliver their services. Portland is being unrealistic. They want a vendor that is willing to risk its capital to build the network, but is also willing to give up any hope of getting a return by opening the network to all ISPs. They really should make a choice - build it themselves(pay to have it built) and open it to all ISPs or pick a vendor that will build it with their own money and be the sole ISP provider.
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TACSPEED
Premium
join:2001-04-14
Tacoma, WA
·Advanced Stream
| Re: The bidders won't like "open network" requirem
quote:
The outline is essentially identical to what EarthLink is building in Anaheim.
Really? Then why is Earthlink building a similar system in Anaheim?
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
1 edit | said by TACSPEED  : quote:
The outline is essentially identical to what EarthLink is building in Anaheim.
Really? Then why is Earthlink building a similar system in Anaheim? Because their CEO is desperately trying to stem the erosion of his company's market share and trying to keep his company from going broke. And that decision was a bad one IMHO as an experienced investor.
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flushls
join:2004-11-02
Joyce, WA | Whatever QWEST should not be allowed to bid
My header says it all if they do win PORTLAND should not give them any outs or overages. |
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jazzy112
join:2003-12-05
Fargo, ND
| reply to TACSPEED
Re: The bidders won't like "open network" requirem
kinda pointless to be open, in order to be open to different backbones you would have to have a fully bridged system. Do you have any Idea what that would do to latency? Now I can understand, having the ability to use your airport credentials to log on to the system but other than that it's pointless to claim you are "open". In this case say "Boingo", if a user logged on to a "non Boingo" system, then boingo would be responsible for paying the system owner for the use and then billing the customer for the roaming.
This is a totally different scenario than cable or dsl sharing. With cable and dsl sharing, if you chose a wannabe you get a different backbone to the internet. On a wireless system, if you want to use a competitor then you are simply roaming. Nothing about the network will change just because you want to use a wannabe to save a couple bucks, it will most likely end up costing you more. Cellular providers don't have to let competitors customers use their system, however most willingly negotiate with each other to be able to offer better services and create the image of a larger network. |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
1 edit | Qwest is a joke!
I have a friend that recently moved to Portland... Qwest is a freakin joke! The phone has so much static, her dialup account wouldn't even connect!
Sure, I can see it now! If they run this internet services like the phone, they'll have a bunch of access points with with SNR of 2dB would be great! 
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
1 edit | What!?!?! Consumer Choice!?!?! Low prices!?!?!?!
We will not stand for this!
Regards,
Your friendly neighborhood cable company
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clevere1
Premium
join:2002-01-06
Vancouver, WA
 ·Qwest.net
| Portland can't afford it.
For one, Portland can't afford to build it themselves. The Entire fricking state is in die straights when it comes to money.
If the companies agree to Portland's terms, let them build it.
They will may more revenue leasing the connection to other companies, and it would be cheaper than having to support "users".
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Portland can ask for anything they want - if they can get it? that's another question. If a company wants to accept such idiotic terms, then it's their own fault.
So in other words, yea, I foot the bill, take the risk, open my private network to everyone else and stand to loose everything is and or when it fails? I'd like to shake the hand of the CEO of THAT company, as he's walking out the door for the last time and I say "hahahah - bye bye!" 
These are things you put to the voters. Ask them if they want it and tell them the price. Add a half cent sales tax if they want it. When will government stop this BS of making decisions for everyone and start asking the public on these issues? It would server two purposes. 1) Find out if there is even a demand for it. If only 20% say yes, then it's a waste of money. 2) If the people want it bad enough and flip a measly half cent on the sales tax, then the public has paid for it, the city can open the network to providers, create some more tax revenue, etc.. It's just a smarter way to go. |
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jaybird45
join:2002-06-21
Alpharetta, GA | Oregon has no sales tax |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| said by jaybird45 :Oregon has no sales tax Maybe that says alot as to why they are in a financial pickle then.
The way I see it, add one, or open up gambling. |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: The bidders won't like "open network" requirem
If you're such an experienced investor, then why are 10 (TEN) companies expected to bid? I mean, by your definition, only the desperate companies will bid on it. So all 10 of those companies are led by idiots? Hmm.. lets do the math.. a poster who has to change his nick every 2 months due to bad karma, or 10 CEO's of experienced data companies. Guess which one I'll give more credence too.
As far as the 'open' part goes. Why is it a loss of money to build an 'open' network? Portland is thinking of the benefits of it's citizens, and giving companies an OPPORTUNITY to provide a service. Guess what if you want to do business in portland, and you want to avoid dealing with the hassles of permitting/etc that the city will make you go through if you don't play by their rules, then you bid on this contract. How is this feature preventing ANY OTHER COMPANY from building their own competing network? It's not.
If you don't like it as an investor, then why don't you tell the company you invest in to go build their own? (hmm.. sort of ironic isn't it, as you're the one who always says that if we don't like our ISP we should go start our own).
(shoe is on the other foot now isn't it...)
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cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| Before Everyone get's excited
It never stated the winner can't charge for competitor's access to the "open" network. Additionally the winner get's the city of Portland as an anchor tennant.
So it's easy to see that this would be a lower risk concept than to try and deploy the same size network on your own. |
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dn0
join:2005-07-05
USA
| reply to fiberguy
Re: Portland can't afford it.
I lived in Portland a few years back.
Asking for even a .5% sales tax is political suicide.
This is the same scenario that kept the local cable co's from deploying broadband for years.
I worked for the local cable company when I lived there, and I agreed with there reluctance to deploy broadband if the the city going to force them to allow any schmuck onto THEIR lines (PLines that are 100% bought and paid for and maintained by the cable co).
If the city would not have pulled this, then the people would have had broadband years earlier.
This is just like forcing McDonald's to let BK, Wendy's and anyone else sell there burgers at any McDonald's restaurant.
I see that the City of Portland is still looking for suckers........... |
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EnasYorl
Thieves World
join:2001-12-02
West
·Verizon Online DSL
4 edits | reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy :said by jaybird45 :Oregon has no sales tax Maybe that says alot as to why they are in a financial pickle then. The way I see it, add one, or open up gambling. Oregon Lottery dates back to 1985
Oregon Lottery (1985*) »www.oregonlottery.org/welcome.php
• Economic Development $1.2 billion
• Public Education $1.47 billion
• Natural Resource Programs $136.5 million
»www.ost.state.or.us/news/NewsRel···tion.htm
»www.onwardoregon.org/site/apps/n···t=429513
»www.onwardoregon.org/site/apps/n···b=368951
»www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/52.html
...
Nobody loves the sales tax, but it’s fair to say nobody despises it quite as conspicuously as the voters of Oregon. Nine sales tax initiatives have appeared on state ballots; nine have been turned down. The most recent one, in 1993, was defeated by a 78 percent majority.
Life can be fun without a sales tax — or at least it can be a lot simpler. You can buy a cup of coffee priced at 99 cents and hand the clerk 99 cents. And, of course, less-affluent people who spend a higher percentage of their income on goods are benefited. But some of the side effects are not as pleasant. With no sales tax, Oregon is more dependent on income tax receipts than any other state in the country. It gets about three-quarters of its total tax revenue from that one source, double the national average....
»governing.com/gpp/2003/gp3or.htm
P.S. I don't think ANY State should spend Tax money on a wireless network. Spend it on Jails and Roads 1st. |
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richardpor
Fur it up
join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR
1 edit | We Don't Need No Stinkin WI-FI
Portland does not need public WI-FI. We all ready have a free hotspot in Pioneer Square and plenty of business offer free Internet and not to mention free Internet in our libraries. At the same time, we have gun violence in down town Portland streets and growing meth problem and a brand new jail that is empty because (I blame) mayor Potter refusing to allocate money for the new jail. The money is better spent on police protection than new internet toys. |
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
1 edit | reply to cmaenginsb
Re: Before Everyone get's excited
said by cmaenginsb :It never stated the winner can't charge for competitor's access to the "open" network. Additionally the winner get's the city of Portland as an anchor tennant. So it's easy to see that this would be a lower risk concept than to try and deploy the same size network on your own. Ayup, Dead on!
There is no reason that the builder of that system can't set up a gigabit wireless backbone, multihome it with BGP to multiple wireline carriers, and parcel out bandwidth to the local ISPs at a fair rate.
Works with wireline services, and what I find funny is that so many people fail to notice all those dish antennas on Verizon towers...  Broadband wireless has been working quite reliably for decades now.
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KeepOnRockin
Music Lover Forever
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Beaverton, OR
·Comcast
| reply to richardpor
Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin WI-FI
said by richardpor :Portland does not need public WI-FI. We all ready have a free hotspot in Pioneer Square and plenty of business offer free Internet and not to mention free Internet in our libraries. At the same time, we have gun violence in down town Portland streets and growing meth problem and a brand new jail that is empty because (I blame) mayor Potter refusing to allocate money for the new jail. The money is better spent on police protection than new internet toys. Ain't it the truth!
Portland should really focus its $ on its real priorities. |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| reply to richardpor
Wow, you didn't actually read the article..
Please point out exactly where it would be 'free' wireless access? The city isn't paying anything. What the city is doing is making it easy (i.e. access to telephone poles, etc), for someone to setup a wireless network. In exchange for that benefit, whomever sets it up agrees to let resellers use it. So once again, please tell me where the word 'free internet access' is mentioned?
Though, I'm a bit surprised you don't support free access. I mean, you have a brand new jail you want to fill up, and the easiest way to do that would be to provide free access to the 'criminals'. You could get all those welfare cheats and minorities off the street by prosecuting them when they download an mp3 from the 'free wireless' network. Lets look how that pans out.
Winners:
Jails : (owned by corporations, not governements anymore) More criminals = more revenue
**AA's : Those people who download MP3's would never buy them anyway, better to just put them in jail.
Patriot Act : Proof that it works, look at all the internet terrorists we caught!
State Govt : All the welfare cheats with their 200.00 nikes would be put in jail for download rap mp3's.
Bush : "We've prosecuted more terrorists than ever before"
Republicans : We're tough on crime, we put those welfare cheat, rap listening gangsters and their encryption terrorist who live in portland behind bars for a LONG time! Vote for us, we're the only ones who can protect you!
So, to summarize, I am forced to question your patriotism. Any REAL patriot would support free wireless, as the benefits it will provide to a law and order society far outweigh the costs.
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SKYWARP
join:2005-02-02
Portland, OR | reply to KeepOnRockin
I hate the idea of the city spending money on BS like this, but this project doesn't stand to cost the City much money.
The company who wins the bid has to foot the bill. LOL |
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