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Comments on news posted 2005-11-22 08:58:43: According to the New Jersey Star Ledger, Leaders of some Orthodox Jewish private schools in Lakewood have banned Internet access from homes with school-age children - in order to protect them from sexual content. If a child's household is found t.. ..

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jester121
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Lake Zurich, IL
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Yikes...

I guess if their goal is to indoctrinate a bunch of drones to do the work of their church, that's a good start. If, on the other hand, they're trying to provide an educational foundation for a future career (which might include *gasp* college!) then this is a pretty nutty idea.
phantom6294

join:2002-02-27
Abingdon, MD

2 edits

Re: Yikes...

Actually, you meant to use the word "synagogue" instead of "church" right? Surely you aren't so ignorant to think Jews go to church, are you? You really can't be that dumb, can you?
jester121
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Re: Yikes...

Errr... no, I meant to use the word "church" (that's why I typed it). My context was similar to that of the expression "separation of church and state", where church means a religious organization, not a building.

Thanks for the civics lesson, professor, and also for the demographic update on your town.
voyager6868

join:2003-01-29
Lynnwood, WA

Re: Yikes...

This is just crazy. Honestly, it doesn't matter what religion this is, it's simply a bunch of crazy people who are running that school!

It's not just the kids that can't use the Internet at home, it's the parents too! Again, crazy!
systems2000
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join:2001-11-29
Cyberspace

Re: Yikes...

I see, just because a school has the will to do right, everyone has to pile on and try to tell them they're mistaken or just plain wrong. Didn't Hitler try to make the World in his image? Maybe the school knows better what technology has to offer their students.

»www.edtechnot.com/notarticle404.html
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Bobcat
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Bedminster, NJ

Re: Yikes...

So when are you disconnecting your Internet access?
systems2000
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join:2001-11-29
Cyberspace

Re: Yikes...

I don't have children and I'm a grown adult who pays for my own Internet connection. What I do with it is my business as long as I'm not breaking the laws of my Country, State, County, Township, Community or whatever.
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voyager6868

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1 edit
said by systems2000 See Profile :

I see, just because a school has the will to do right, everyone has to pile on and try to tell them they're mistaken or just plain wrong. Didn't Hitler try to make the World in his image? Maybe the school knows better what technology has to offer their students.

»www.edtechnot.com/notarticle404.html
"Has the will to do right"? LOL. If anything, your Hitler comment applies to the school, not to my comment. The school is forcing parents to do what the school thinks is right in the parents' own homes!

I'm suggesting that parents are given the choice to decide what *they* think is right for their homes. And you're saying that my view rings of Hilter? Free Choice = Hitler?? LOL. I think you need to re-evaluate your views...

And your article has very little to do with this whole issue. If the school wants to limit computer use *at school* then that's completely fine. But this school is dictating what computer use should be taking place in the *home*.

nazi

@pg.com

Re: Yikes...

no, churches are fine, synagogues should be burned

richardpor
Fur it up

join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR

What next, criticizing Orthodox Jews for not eating pork or not serving dairy products when serving meat.

Yo gus it their religion you got a problem with that!

Frankly, I admire them for taking the initiative and dealing with the problem themselves rather than some on my side, conservative evangelical Christians, who are running to secular government to have the stuff banned.
Cyron

join:2002-09-24
Charlotte, NC

Re: Yikes...

Why wouldn't they just forbid pron and lewd content? Why the whole internet? If they can't trust their members to act responsibly, what's the point?

sapo
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Sacramento, CA
Uhm, Internet is addressed by the Jewish Religion in the ancient scripts? The Judaism doesn't generally disallow Internet so I believe your statement is invalid
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maartena
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Re: Yikes...

said by sapo See Profile :

Uhm, Internet is addressed by the Jewish Religion in the ancient scripts? The Judaism doesn't generally disallow Internet so I believe your statement is invalid
No religion specifically bans the use of the Internet. Only some governments - usually dictator/communist ones - bans the use of the Internet. (e.g. North Korea, Libya, Iran, Cuba)

In this case, it is the SCHOOL who sets the policy. Its a stupid policy in my opinion, but it is theirs to set. If you don't want to give up Internet and free access to information, simply don't put your kids in that school.
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Bobcat
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said by richardpor See Profile :

What next, criticizing Orthodox Jews for not eating pork or not serving dairy products when serving meat.
Can you get expelled from school for eating a ham sandwich at home?

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Shack

join:2002-01-17
Bloomington, IN

Re: Yikes...

I find there approach rather silly, but you are an embarrassment. Thanks for bringing some aryan hatred to this website troll.

nixen
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Re: Yikes...

said by Shack See Profile :

I find there approach rather silly, but you are an embarrassment. Thanks for bringing some aryan hatred to this website troll.
Aryan? You sure about that? Thanks for playing, but Nazis aren't the only ones that would use "jew" in a pajorative sense.

-tom
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Shack

join:2002-01-17
Bloomington, IN

Re: Yikes...

Very nice reply quibbly, you sir are to be commended.

Shack

join:2002-01-17
Bloomington, IN

Re: Yikes...

Maybe you need a clue, like turning off your caps lock. Honestly I am not sure what your point is, are you White Power or a real American that embraces all of mankind? I am not sure if you are just a hater or a human.
jerry666
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Re: Yikes...

if the orthodox jews make a rule for THEIR members how does it impact YOU ? now the chgristian right wants to ban all kinds of things for everyone , that's my point for the clueless one

Bobcat
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Re: Yikes...

said by jerry666 See Profile :

if the orthodox jews make a rule for THEIR members how does it impact YOU ?
I have a problem when kids are expelled from school (even private ones) for legal conduct which occurs off of school property.
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Plasticman
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What next, are they going to ban the parents from owning cars becuase the kids may be tempted to take it out for a test drive and kill somebody. Or take them someplace to gain access to the internet or sexually explicit material.

Plasticman
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TKJunkMail
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Re: Yikes...

said by Plasticman See Profile :

What next, are they going to ban the parents from owning cars becuase the kids may be tempted to take it out for a test drive and kill somebody. Or take them someplace to gain access to the internet or sexually explicit material.
I worked part time up near Lancaster, PA this year and the local Amish community has no cars, no electric, no phones, no pretty much everything invented after 1800. It is a decision they made and is incomprehensible to me. But they live as they see fit and they all seemed to me to be very nice people when I bought produce at their roadside farm stands. They make a nice living and contribute to society. So I say let them live as they please and raise their children as they see fit. It's no skin off my nose.
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Pirate515
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Re: Yikes...

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

I worked part-time up near Lancaster, PA this year and the local Amish community has no cars, no electric, no phones, no pretty much everything invented after 1800. It is a decision they made and is incomprehensible to me. But they live as they see fit and they all seemed to me to be very nice people when I bought produce at their roadside farm stands. They make a nice living and contribute to society. So I say let them live as they please and raise their children as they see fit. It's no skin off my nose.
At least the Amish do not force their way of life on anyone from what I've heard. When their children reach 18, they give them a choice to leave their community and lead a civilized life. If they choose to stay, they have to abide by their community standards and live in the 18th century, but no one is holding guns to their heads and forcing them to stay.
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Wills

join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL

Re: Yikes...

It's not that easy chief. If they leave the Amish community, they are shunned from them on from their family and that community.

So yes, to a young Amish person, it IS like having a gun to their head. Most stay because they are afraid of being shunned, labelled a sinner, and treated as an outcast by their family.
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Combat Chuck
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Re: Yikes...

said by Wills See Profile :

It's not that easy chief. If they leave the Amish community, they are shunned from them on from their family and that community.

So yes, to a young Amish person, it IS like having a gun to their head. Most stay because they are afraid of being shunned, labelled a sinner, and treated as an outcast by their family.
you're partially wrong about that. Yes you are shunned if you reject their views after seeing the other side and coming back.

the word is Rumspringa
»rumspringa.biography.ms/

People think the Amish are ignorant, they aren't they're actually fairly informed; and a lot of their reasoning for doing things certain ways make sense.
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SimbaTLK1
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1 edit
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

I worked part time up near Lancaster, PA this year and the local Amish community has no cars, no electric, no phones, no pretty much everything invented after 1800. It is a decision they made and is incomprehensible to me. But they live as they see fit and they all seemed to me to be very nice people when I bought produce at their roadside farm stands. They make a nice living and contribute to society. So I say let them live as they please and raise their children as they see fit. It's no skin off my nose.
This is quite different than the Jewish school situation talked about in this post. The Amish have never experienced the modern conviences, and thats the way they choose to live their life. However, more than likely, the parents and their kids that attend this school have experienced these things, and taking them away (in my opinion) isn't fair. This would be like allowing Amish children up to the age of 12 to use electricity and modern conviences, and on their 12th birthday, it all gets taken away.

On a final note, I agree that taking away the entire internet is a bit excessive. Why not just do like all other schools do and setup a proxy server with filtering capabilities???
Kearnstd
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how does the school know what is at the kids home, unless the contract for getting in allows the school to come and search the home for cable modems.
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tiger9

join:2005-08-01
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Hmm..

I can see many kids transferring to the nearest public school...

But really, there are products that do block access to lewd sites.

Of course, that costs money for the school, or the parents might transfer the students due to the private school fee and the software fee. They want the private school fee.

The school won't pay for the software, so they do this.

This just showes you how greedy people are.

TKJunkMail
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Re: Yikes...

said by tiger9 See Profile :

The school won't pay for the software, so they do this.

This just showes you how greedy people are.
You are way out in left field with that opinion. Money isn't the reason - RELIGION is. That and the determination of parents, teachers, and the religious community to totally cutoff access to the internet in order to isolate the children from its influence(not just porn).
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voyager6868

join:2003-01-29
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Re: Yikes...

Don't forget, they're also isolating the parents. No Internet at home means the parents can't use it either. How would you, as parents, like to be told what you can or cannot do in your own home by your school? LOL. I think most parents would flip out.

TKJunkMail
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Re: Yikes...

said by voyager6868 See Profile :

Don't forget, they're also isolating the parents. No Internet at home means the parents can't use it either. How would you, as parents, like to be told what you can or cannot do in your own home by your school? LOL. I think most parents would flip out.
From the news item:
While strict, the policy is not absolute. The community's rabbis may make exceptions for parents with e-mail-only access or with home businesses if computers are kept in a locked room or cabinet.

But the rabbis say 100 percent compliance is not the point; they do not plan midnight raids. Instead, they said they expect community members to use the honor system and sign written pledges that if they do need the Internet at home for work, they will ensure that kids cannot use it.

Elsewhere, attempts to limit Internet use often are criticized as censorship. But Lakewood's Orthodox Jewish leaders said they do not expect any lawsuits. Indeed, rabbis and people interviewed in Lakewood said there is widespread support for the rules, with little outward opposition save some blogging on the Internet. And they said similar policies in Israel have worked well.

"Being subject to rabbinic leadership here is completely voluntary ... If you're sending your kid to a private school, you've already made a choice. You want to guide your child in a certain direction."
So it isn't forced. There are exceptions. And it is all voluntary. And no one is forcing the parents to send their kids to go to the religious school.
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voyager6868

join:2003-01-29
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Re: Yikes...

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by voyager6868 See Profile :

Don't forget, they're also isolating the parents. No Internet at home means the parents can't use it either. How would you, as parents, like to be told what you can or cannot do in your own home by your school? LOL. I think most parents would flip out.
From the news item:
While strict, the policy is not absolute. The community's rabbis may make exceptions for parents with e-mail-only access or with home businesses if computers are kept in a locked room or cabinet.

But the rabbis say 100 percent compliance is not the point; they do not plan midnight raids. Instead, they said they expect community members to use the honor system and sign written pledges that if they do need the Internet at home for work, they will ensure that kids cannot use it.

Elsewhere, attempts to limit Internet use often are criticized as censorship. But Lakewood's Orthodox Jewish leaders said they do not expect any lawsuits. Indeed, rabbis and people interviewed in Lakewood said there is widespread support for the rules, with little outward opposition save some blogging on the Internet. And they said similar policies in Israel have worked well.

"Being subject to rabbinic leadership here is completely voluntary ... If you're sending your kid to a private school, you've already made a choice. You want to guide your child in a certain direction."
So it isn't forced. There are exceptions. And it is all voluntary. And no one is forcing the parents to send their kids to go to the religious school.
It is still "forced". If you don't have a home business, you can only use the Internet for e-mail. LOL. And you don't think that's "forced"?

The school is basically setting moral values for the parents. What if a parent wants to view pornography on their computer. Do you really want your kids' school telling you that you can't do that in the privacy of your own home?? LOL.
systems2000
What? You Say It's Fixed. Hah

join:2001-11-29
Cyberspace

Re: Yikes...

And when did a religion, or some communities, not set "Moral Values for parents"? Have you never heard of the laws on the books against oral sex and other acts that displease the society?

Camelot One
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Sarasota, FL
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Head in the sand?

Isn't this a little like avoiding future Hurricane disasters by not watching the weather channel?

badtrip
East Bay
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Albany, CA

Re: Head in the sand?

Wait a second. If these kids ever look down while in the shower/bath then they will have an unobstructed view of a penis or vagina. I think just to be safe, this school should ban looking down in all circumstances.
loeakaodas

join:2005-01-31
Sarasota, FL

WTF?

I think this is going extremely too far, and see this as an invasion of privacy none the less.

darthur2000

join:2002-01-02
Middletown, CT
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It's just religion

How is this any different then the people in Kansas who oppose teaching science. Controlling what people think is the name of the game and to win you need to control what information they have access to.

See 41 replies to this post

GorbGuy

join:2003-09-23
Middleville, MI
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So does this mean...

That households with TV's are out too? Some of the advertisements and even news programs are chuck full of what might be considered "Inappropriate Material."
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cdru
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Re: So does this mean...

If you would have read the article, you would have seen that few in the community have a TV.

GorbGuy

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Re: So does this mean...

said by cdru See Profile :

If you would have read the article, you would have seen that few in the community have a TV.
Really? I guess I must have missed the part where few in the community have a TV. My question is as it was before.... will these become banned as well? Read my whole post before sticking foot in mouth.
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spuds462

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Cult like activity

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~

It's a private school, and as far as I'm concerned, they can do whatever they want. No complaints here.
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See 22 replies to this post

alg
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Wow, just wow

This is the type of thing that I thought doesn't happen anymore in this country. Can't wait until they find out that the headmaster of the school has a secret porno stash and that his son was running a porno ring with all the other guys in the school.

See 13 replies to this post

N3OGH
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They can do it, but MAN that's wacky!

Hey, it's a private school, they can basically set whatever rules they want. If they say you have to hop on 1 leg and spit wooden nickles for an hour every night, well then, hop and spit, or go elsewhere.

That said, how whacked out of their GOURD are these people? I mean, I'm a self described right winger, but this stuff is so over the top, I don't know what to say.

If my children were in this school, they wouldn't be today. Denying children access to the internet because they might be exposed to porn is on the same level as banning parents from having a telephone because the kid might call a phone sex chat line.

If this were April 1, I would think I was being suckered in on this one.

SHEESH, just WACKY!!

cdru
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1 edit

Writeup very misleading

The writeup for this news article is VERY misleading. While everything is true, they are leaving out a very important factor. It's not just any principals of a private school, it's coming from leaders of the Jewish Orthodox church for religious purposes.

While I think the ban is silly, they are free to practice their faith as they choose. No one is forcing people within the Jewish Orthodox community to live there, worship there, or otherwise go to school there.

Edited: The write-up as been "fixed".
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MySpace

I heard that one of the local private schools here makes students sign a pledge at the beginning of the year that they will not create a MySpace account, and if they're found to have one, they'll be expelled.

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Jim_F
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?

Isn't this just like, you know, communism?

Combat Chuck
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Re: ?

said by Jim_F See Profile :

Isn't this just like, you know, communism?
No, this is nothing like communism.
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Pirate515
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said by Jim_F See Profile :

Isn't this just like, you know, communism?
It would be communism if federal/state/local government banned Internet access. But it's only a local school that's doing this. If you don't like this policy, you can find a different school to go to, it's as simple as that.
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packetscan
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WOW

Communism is alive and well i see..
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See 15 replies to this post

jrsmooth

join:2000-05-17
Washington, DC

This could only happen

...in communist China...

For all those China-haters, isn't this a culture thing?!
RafS

join:2003-03-06
New York, NY

It's not just the internet

Everyone has to remember that for Orthodox Jews their religion isn't something they do once a week. It's really a way of life. Most of us here wouldn't agree with their way of protecting their children but historicaly they have been a group that keeps to themselves, even around more 'modern' members of their religion. As someone else said, most of them don't even have televisions so not having internet access isn't a big deal. This way of life allows them to be more in touch with their faith, plus, if i had kids, i wouldn't mind them spending some more time reading or playing outside than sitting in front of a screen where they could, and would probably, get into trouble.

Goober
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Re: It's not just the internet

Finally an intelligent comment.

Freedom of religion and association is/was supposed to be one of the more important rights that the US was founded on.

For you kiddees on this site always moaning about how your rights are being abridged, why don't you step back and take a logical, reasonable look at things. Get your pimpled faces out of your 21" LCD Warcraft screens and go read some history.
Skippy25

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Re: It's not just the internet

It was the main reason America was founded.

Goober
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Re: It's not just the internet

said by Skippy25 See Profile :

It was the main reason America was founded.
Yep, very aware of that.

reub2000
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Religion is the reason for half the country. The other half was looking for gold.

LSUTiger Vet

join:2005-06-20
Baton Rouge, LA
its their way of life, I dont agree with it, but look at other groups, the Amish and the Minonites.

They have the right to do what they want, and do what they feel is right.

oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
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Corona, CA

That's fine...

...they'll simply lose business to their competitors.

qdemn7
Smurf in My Loop
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Fort Worth, TX

Re: That's fine...

said by oliphant See Profile :

...they'll simply lose business to their competitors.
They probably don't do much business EXCEPT with other Orthodox Jews. So what real difference does it make? None.
Cyberguru

join:2005-06-09
Phoenix, AZ


2 edits

I wish my son went to this school

I wish my son went to this school so that I could organize a strike. I would try my hardest to get everyone to demand a change in the policy or I would send my child to a different school. I guess since it is a Private school they have a stupid ass right as to force people to follow their dumb ass policies. Whats next, no tv?

What if the child's father or mother has an on-line store? People these days rely on the internet heavily. My company gave me a laptop and an aircard so that if anything happens to our network, I can remote desktop in and see what the issue is. People like me would be forced to take my kid to another school, if of course I couldn't organize the strike.

See 11 replies to this post

statecop
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Beverly Hills, CA

Laptop?

I bet if you get caught with a laptop and a wifi card they would string you up to a cross.
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CrazyFingers

join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO

Re: Laptop?

said by statecop See Profile :

I bet if you get caught with a laptop and a wifi card they would string you up to a cross.
Uhh...what?
I wasn't aware the Jews were heavily into nailing people to crosses. In fact, I thought it was the Romans who mainly promoted crucifixion.

BACK ON TOPIC....
As an atheist, I find Orthodox Judaism to be backwards, ignorant, and silly, just like all organized religion.
BUT, our first amendment allows them the right to be as medieval as they want, so, what's the big deal? This is a closed society that they voluntarily belong to. Sure, they're destroying their children's chances of being able to function in our current society, but the odds of that are pretty low anyway (closed society, remember?). Also, I'm pretty sure they could pack up and leave if they really wanted to.
I mean, it's not like they're Scientologists, right?
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qdemn7
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Re: Laptop?

said by CrazyFingers See Profile :

As an atheist, I find Orthodox Judaism to be backwards, ignorant, and silly, just like all organized religion.
BUT, our first amendment allows them the right to be as medieval as they want, so, what's the big deal?
As an Libertarian Conservative Agnostic, I find many Atheists to be as intolerant as any Fundamentalist of any stripe. Come to think of it, Atheists ARE Fundies, just of a different stripe. Like that ass Michael Needow in California.

Spend some time over at the Democratic Underground or even the Blue Room here and you'll see just how "tolerant" hard-core Atheists are of any one with any "faith" whatsoever.
--
I think prostitution and drugs should be legal and regulated, just like alcohol. Too many people want to ban thing based on their “feelings” that certain things are Sins, and all Sins should be banned. Sin Laws should be prohibited.

CrazyFingers

join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO

Re: Laptop?

That's funny, I don't recall stating anywhere in my post that I was tolerant of organized religion. In fact, upon review, I'm pretty sure I said something like "As an atheist, I find Orthodox Judaism to be backwards, ignorant, and silly, just like all organized religion". Yep, that's what I said.
Was that somehow unclear?
This was followed by "BUT, our first amendment allows them the right to be as medieval as they want, so, what's the big deal?"
Apparently your "Libertarian Conservative Agnostic" fundamentalist seminary didn't put much stock in teaching reading comprehension.
That's OK, the same Bill of Rights that gives me the right to ignore your prattlings gives you the exact same right.
FSM bless America!
--
Burrow owl...burrow owl...

RogerWilco2

@co.za

The debate on organized religion aside, it's worth noting that Orthodox Judaism often has disparate views on many topics. They are fairly well agreed on the 'biggies' (from an Orthodox perspective) like kosher, etc But there are many issues where the Orthodox principle of 'taking a Rabbi' applies. In this case adherents will follow the teachings of "their" Rabbi. In this case some local Rabbi who has a view on the internet.

By the same token there are many orthodox, and ultra-orthodox, groupings that are very big on the internet. The Lubavitch movement (»www.chabad.org/) being a case in point.

The point being, don't lump all Orthodox in the same category. There is also the old Jewish adage "two Jews three opinions".

inciter
Noobie
Premium
join:2000-08-30
Rohnert Park, CA


1 edit

The Village

In a quiet, isolated village in olde Pennsylvania, there lies a pact between the people of the village and the creatures who reside in the surrounding woods: the townspeople do not enter the woods, and the creatures do not enter the village. The pact stays true for many years, but when Lucius Hunt seeks medical supplies from the towns beyond the wood, the pact is challenged. Animal carcasses, devoid of fur, begin to appear around the village, causing the council of elders to fear for the safety of the village, the pact, and so much more.

Run. The truce is ending.

I: Let the bad color not be seen. It attracts them. II: Never enter the woods. That is where they wait. III: Heed the warning bell, for they are coming.

There is no turning back

Same thing
--
Playing Table Tennis
is not a matter of life or
Death, It's much more
important than that.

ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
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1 edit

Kaboom

Flamewar Anyone?

Ok, and this isn't a "kiddie war"?

Come now people, back to your senses. A parent sends their child to Private school, and the private school has a lot of control over what goes on at home as compared to a public school, and we complain about it.

That's why they are private.
Forums » Have kids? No Internet for you!page: 1 · 2


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