WOOO-WOOO
@198.22.x.x
| uh huh
So the MAC wasn't tracked by the P2P program? Hey I think I'm going to be keeping a wireless router with me at all times, so if the FEDs don't like something I do from my computer, I can blame the teenagers down the street. Good show, Ohio man. Good show. |
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mAlfunkti0n
join:2003-12-16
Loveland, OH
 ·Cincinnati Bell
1 edit | Hurrrr
As much as I hate the **AA I seriously doubt this will get the guy any points from the court. If he is near Cincinnati the maximum upload speed from any carrier around here is 1Mbit .. at that rate the wardriver would be sitting out in his driveway for awhile.
If the guy lives in a sub division like me, his neighbors could have done it too. From my living room I have access to about 5 unsecured AP's, that I am able to connect to, that give me internet access.
Edit : Just read the article .. Blue Ash is about 10 minutes away from my office, and about 15 from my home. |
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TexasGuy
49 States And Texas
Premium
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX | Well, it is possible...
Here is a reasonable doubt... |
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TexasGuy
49 States And Texas
Premium
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX | reply to mAlfunkti0n
Re: Hurrrr
I got like 3 connections here, all WEP. If I had time and interest, I could get their keys. |
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nonner9
join:2005-10-14
Charlotte, NC
| reply to TexasGuy
Re: Well, it is possible...
I don't think reasonable doubt applies in the same way in civil courts.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in civil lawsuits, the defense has to prove he didn't do anything wrong, and the prosecution has to prove that he did in fact do something wrong, then it's up to a jury to decide who they believe more... |
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nonner9
join:2005-10-14
Charlotte, NC
| How does the RIAA know ?????
How would they know if someone is uploading something or not?
If it's via those peer to peer programs, then it's possible they got the user's ID and somehow got his personal information from it....
but I don't see anyway that the RIAA could know if someone got onto your wireless network and uploaded files from a shared directory....
so, I think the guy is lieing, because I don't think RIAA can track someone copying files over a wireless network (not the Internet). |
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heels_fan
1.20.09 The start of Socialism
Premium
join:2003-02-07
Columbia, TN
| they probably traced it back to the IP address and not the user's ID.
The user's ID really doent meant anything if they (MPAA/RIAA) have an IP address. In some P2P apps, you can hide the username.
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A man is not idle because he is absorbed in thought. There is a visible labor and there is an invisible labor - Victor Hugo (1802 - 1885)Comment Line: 206-600-6096 |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| reply to nonner9
said by nonner9  :How would they know if someone is uploading something or not? If it's via those peer to peer programs, then it's possible they got the user's ID and somehow got his personal information from it.... but I don't see anyway that the RIAA could know if someone got onto your wireless network and uploaded files from a shared directory.... so, I think the guy is lieing, because I don't think RIAA can track someone copying files over a wireless network (not the Internet). I assume they got his IP address. |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| The key is to make the accusation STICK
Lets be fair, the odds of someone uploading from a driveway are slim to none, BUT, that's not the issue. Lets look at the FACTS of the cast:
FACT #1: They took his computers, and did NOT FIND A COPY of the movie on his computer.
FACT #2: They have NO PROOF that it was him. Sure the wi-fi is far fetched, but it's remotely possible
FACT #3: He NEVER admitted it. There is NO ADMISSION of guilt anywhere.
FACT #4: NO PROOF of Loss. They can't prove that his computer upload 1, 100 or even 1000 copies. It's just hearsay.
Problems: This is being prosecuted as a civil case. The $100,000.00 for a 12.99 shoplifting case, which would merit a fine of 50.00 is outrageous. In comparison, The median cost of a human life in a wrongful death (civil case) is $941,000.00. (from the department of justice web site). As far as the MPAA is concerned then, a human beings life is worth less than 10 of their movies?
Problem: It puts the MPAA in a huge bind. In a jury trial, they may win, in fact, probably will win. But the amounts they are asking for are laughable. The jury might settle for a $50.00 fine, or something similar to shoplifting. (note: the average pirate caught at a flea market, with 300+ DVD's pays a $220.00 fine). If that becomes the de-facto settlement per movie in a settlement, the MPAA can't possibly win.
What does this prove? Very simply. Suing your customers is a bad busines decision. You can't win. Sure, there will ALWAYS be pirates, but for 21.99, most people consider that a reasonable price. Of course, to the MPAA I say, once we all get 100mb/100mb pipes, you're going to have to lower the price even more, since if I can download the movie in 5 minutes flat with no hassle, you can kiss your $21.99 goodbye. Oooh, and you've already lost the entire under 25 crowd with your tactics, so plan on piracy totals increasing... noticeably. Might be a good time to change the fundamentals of your business model mr. movie guy.
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Sure the internet has lots of porn and piracy, but I'm sure there's a downside to it. |
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Kilroy
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-21
Ann Arbor, MI
 ·WOW Internet and C..
| reply to WOOO-WOOO
Re: uh huh
The MAC most likely would belong to the router.
said by "Article :
Paramount had the police seize his four computers, but nothing was found.
said by "2nd Article :
Paramount has looked at all four computers in Lee's home, alleging he had one of them cleaned to erase evidence. The company has filed a federal lawsuit against the Blue Ash man.
That should be sufficient to get him off the hook. As most of the people here know erasing a drive so that you can find no evidence isn't just deleting the file.
I have wireless in my home, it is secure, but since I can use it, others could use it if they really wanted to.
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I have two favorite sports teams, University of Michigan and whoever is playing Michigan State. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to WOOO-WOOO
said by WOOO-WOOO :
So the MAC wasn't tracked by the P2P program? Hey I think I'm going to be keeping a wireless router with me at all times, so if the FEDs don't like something I do from my computer, I can blame the teenagers down the street. Good show, Ohio man. Good show.
I doubt he'll get very far with that defense. After all this is a civil case and the "beyond a reasonable doubt" defense won't fly very far. If he has a way to prove it wasn't him(witnesses that he wasn't home), maybe. He'll have to go to court to have a chance at winning. But settling will be a lot cheaper.
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Join Red Room Forum
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stufried
Premium
join:2003-10-13
·Verizon BroadbandA..
| reply to nonner9
Re: How does the RIAA know ?????
Let's wait and see what happens after the RIAA inspects his computer.
The interesting question is going to be whether courts compare securing wi-fi to leaving your keys in your car and your liability for an accident caused by a car thief. Before anyone raises the issue, WEP is like owning a Chrysler Corporation, any moron can "hotwire" it in 20 seconds, but that won't make you liable. There is a difference between using a product with inadequate factory security and not using the limited security the factory gives you.
Incidentally, I doubt a MAC address would change anything. A MAC address can be cloned so silly easily that it doesn't prove much, at least if the MAC address corresponded to a wireless laptop or ethernet bridge. Cloning the mac address of a wired connection would raise more alarm bells in my mind. |
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joshpo
join:2002-09-24
Philadelphia, PA | reply to G_Poobah
Re: The key is to make the accusation STICK
Nice job, great post. |
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deadzoned
Premium
join:2005-04-13
Baton Rouge, LA
·Cox HSI
| Wait and see
We shall see the real facts come out later. This guy is probably more savvy than he's acting right now. The MPAA looks to have been a little overzealous yet again. We won't know until more details emerge though.
The sad thing is that either way you look at it - it's gonna cost this guy some money because of one stupid movie that you can buy for 20 bucks or less most anywhere.
One thing is for sure, it would be real handy to have the police at your beck and call whenever you THINK something might have been stolen from you. How the MPAA/RIAA get away with that is anyone's guess. You would think more people would take notice and start asking questions or something. I guess when there's money to be made.... |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: uh huh
"But settling will be a lot cheaper".
AND THAT is the fundamental problem with our court system. It's no longer about justice, it's about costs. The RIAA knows that, the MPAA knows that. They are using the court systems as a sledgehammer, to force people of limited means to settle in the interest of costs. In the real world, that's called 'racketeering and extortion'. As to why they haven't been prosecuted under the RICO act is beyond me.
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Sure the internet has lots of porn and piracy, but I'm sure there's a downside to it. |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | reply to nonner9
Re: Well, it is possible...
You're correct. You just need preponderance of the evidence. |
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Roundboy
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Drexel Hill, PA
| excellent
This is an excellent defense.
They can proove it was his CONNECTION .. not him personally. Yes, this is the same as having left keys in a car and someone steals it.
Especially if NO recovered evidence was found on his computer. So he either didn't do it, or he is better then simply just deleting the file.
I think this guy is playing it very well.
Added to this the lack of real wireless security present in consumer wireless devices, this gives a valid excuse to many tech savy downloaders.
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[spoiler]Steve the pirate DIES![/spoiler] |
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Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Kilroy
Re: uh huh
said by Kilroy :The MAC most likely would belong to the router. said by "Article :
Paramount had the police seize his four computers, but nothing was found.
said by "2nd Article :
Paramount has looked at all four computers in Lee's home, alleging he had one of them cleaned to erase evidence. The company has filed a federal lawsuit against the Blue Ash man.
That should be sufficient to get him off the hook. As most of the people here know erasing a drive so that you can find no evidence isn't just deleting the file. I have wireless in my home, it is secure, but since I can use it, others could use it if they really wanted to. Yeah sounds like he ran DBAN.
Although, that should be no reason to consider it getting rid of evidence, some people like me DBAN just for the hell of it before formatting.
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space for rent |
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scrummie02
Bentley
Premium
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA
| reply to TKJunkMail
I disagree...the burden of proof is on the plaintiff. They have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt he downloaded the stuff. They had the police invade his home and take his computers. If there isn't any evidence on his PC's he had those files what can they do?
While I disagree (for the most part) with pirating music, if they are going to sue, they need to have the proof. If I was a juror (not sure if they use jurors in civil cases or not) I wouldn't find him guilty unless they can prove he actually did it and have evidence it was him...other than shitty ISP logs. |
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Amused Bewilerment
@204.62.x.x | Setup?
Me thinks the guy may be smarter than he appears. Could it be that he has set up the MPAA for this trial? Interesting thought. I wonder how the MPAA/RIAA would react if they realized that that there were "webmines" being planted to get them? |
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