oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
1 edit | Hmmm...
...if I blackmailed someone, I'd go to jail. If I bribed a Senator to vote my way...I'd go to jail. Telcos follow diff'rent rules than us lowly folk. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
1 edit |  said by oliphant  :...if I blackmailed someone, I'd go to jail. If I bribed a Senator to vote my way...I'd go to jail. Telcos follow diff'rent rules than us lowly folk. Don't worry, the providers are bribing other Senators to make sure their side has equal time in the committee discussions after the hearings. And you'll pay the price no matter which side wins, network neutrality won't change that fact.
Everybody screams "Network Neutrality" like it is some magic talisman that will guarantee them lower prices. Dream on!!
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Oh really?
quote:
The RBOCs were represented by their trade group, the USTA, and their message was simple. “We will not block, impair, or degrade content, applications in any way,” said USTA’s McCormick. He would repeat the remark nearly verbatim several times during the hearing.
When you keep repeating the same line, verbatim, over and over again, then you are spouting off nothing but a PR line that has no sincerity in it.
I wonder if they sell bridges in New York too. 
Just like Verizon lied in PA, the RBOCs are lying now and will go back on their word since they do not fear Congress (since they bought most of the people in there) nor do they fear the FCC.
How many Madison River Communications incidents do we need before this becomes a problem? |
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mdmaddox
Premium
join:2002-12-29
Federal Way, WA | Telecom Tell The Trurth
History has shown the telco will say anything and do very little. Post from last week of broken promises. »muniwireless.com/community/1023 |
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TelecomJunky
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Kansas City, MO
| Read the articles
The best analogy I have seen used yet regarding Bells' QoS propaganda.
Picture the Internet as your typical highway. Now, how does that highway react when a car like that of the police or fire department comes down full speed ahead with sirens blaring?
That's right, we all pull over and give them preferential, QoS on our highways. We wait so they can get by unabated.
No image you have to do this for every UPS truck too.
What do you think happens to all those packets that can't afford to pay for QoS in addition to their very expensive broadband backbone connections?
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rileyjam514
There You Go Again...
join:2005-06-26
Kearny, NJ
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Hmmm...
I agree. Some Congressional Committee discussing "network neutrality" doesn't mean that it's going to happen.
Watch, the providers will gut the concept of neutrality to the point where it's useless.
And does anyone care? Nah, these are the phone companies. They can do anything.
Where's Eliot Spitzer when you (really) need him?
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"It is my destiny to give back to the universe infinitely more than I have taken from it." -- Anonymous |
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TelecomJunky
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Kansas City, MO
| The Talking Points
1. The Internet is already being paid for on both ends. Customers pay access providers for unrestricted broadband pipe. Content providers pay backbone providers for huge pipes to deliver content.
2. In order to provide any packet preferential treatment or QoS you can do 2 things. First, you can build a whole other network that only those people who pay can gain access to. Second, you can give priority to those packets that pay and when they come down the pipe every other packet gets out of the way temporarily.
3. Next-gen broadband services will need to be paid for. Who should pay for them. The end user by buying a fairly priced service from an access provider or the end user by paying much higher rates for every service on the net or by being forced to use on Bell company content? In either case you have two facts: the end user will end up footing the bill and the telco ends up with the money. The only question is will you force the telco to absorb the negative PR of the increased costs or will you let them dump it on unrelated content providers?
I hereby state that if and when access fees are charged by the telcos to content companies, I support content companies ability to list a separate line item charge on the customers bills labeled '[Insert regional Bell monopoly here] Internet Access Tax' and assign a few.
Example Vonage bill:
Vonage Services:
Unlimited Phone Service $24.95
------------------------------
Subtotal: $24.95
Other Items and Fees
At&t Internet Access Tax $4.93
------------------------------
Subtotal: $4.93
Total Due upon receipt: $29.88
Content companies can feel justified doing such a misleading thing because those Bell monopolies have been doing the same thing in the guise of FCC fees for decades.
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AJ023
join:2001-12-25
Forest Hills, NY
1 edit | reply to rileyjam514
Re: Hmmm...
Spitzer actually will have an impact based on the NY State level especially as he appoints a new PSC when he wins.
So dont worry about Spitzer 
I see you are in New Jersey however so it all depends on the NJ PSC or the equivalent thereof. |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| More lies in writing by the telco's
There's some great lies in there..
Lie #1: "Have we sought to control or restrict the Internet?" Walter McCormick, president and CEO of the U.S. Telecom Association, which represents a wide swath of the industry, asked the senators. "No, we have not. We have instead invested, grown and increased the scale and the scope of the Internet."
The Truth : Lets see, ahh, yes ROGERS is throttling bittorrent. Verizon blocks port 80 and 25! That is a RESTRICTION. There is NO OTHER WORD to describe it other than RESTRICTION. Which goes to show that the telecom industry has no problem lying through their teeth.
Lie #2: "The fact is that our regulations and our laws need to be modernized to reflect the realities of technology today to create more incentives for companies to invest so that we have those broadband networks that are higher quality, that are faster, that give consumers more competition," said Sen. John Ensign, R-Nev"
The Truth : His #1 CONTRIBUTOR is none other than the telecom industry! Suprise, suprise.. »www.tray.com/cgi-win/x_candpg.ex···073*2004
Lie #3: "Both McCormick and the NCTA’s McSlarrow said their member companies have spent billions aggressively building out their networks, and will continue doing so as long as the financial incentive isn't stripped away by new regulation."
The Truth : What INCENTIVES are being stripped away? Right now, they aren't raping everyone for the extra money? By their definition, the ability to rape the consumer is an incentive? Why am I not surprised....
Lie #4: "Simply put, our side believes that businesses that seek to profit on the use of next-generation networks should not be free of all costs associated with the increased capacity that is required for delivery of the advanced services, they will be seeking more bandwidth. If you want more, then you pay more, is as American as it comes.""
The Truth : Well then, RAISE YOUR RATES!.. Oh, wait.. too greedy.. possible competitors.. ouch, that would be bad. Oh, you don't want to pay to upgrade your network, you want the USERS to pay for your upgrades (and your 4th house, and your yacht)..
Summary: Only the corporate apologists could possibly say that net neutrality is a bad thing. It's not really amazing, but as the smart people say : "Put simply, the FCC is betting America's future on the goodwill of the Bell companies and large cable operators. Counting on companies to act in the public good against their own financial interests has been tried before, and it has never worked."
Why would it suddenly start to work now?
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Sure the internet has lots of porn and piracy, but I'm sure there's a downside to it. |
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rileyjam514
There You Go Again...
join:2005-06-26
Kearny, NJ
| reply to AJ023
Re: Hmmm...
Yeah, I'm in Jersey, with our wonderfully corrupt politics (former Newark resident) and impossible bureaucracy (NJ BPU = NY PSC only more corrupt since it's Jersey).
Granted, I'm not saying Spitzer's a saint or anything, but considering his anti-corporate record, I would think the phone companies and cable companies present a very large and tempting target to him, and I would hope that he takes them on and leads the charge (since Jersey will always follow suit - ha ha what a pun!!1!).
Only time will tell.
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"It is my destiny to give back to the universe infinitely more than I have taken from it." -- Anonymous |
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AJ023
join:2001-12-25
Forest Hills, NY
1 edit | Vint is the genious, so why dont we just LISTEN!
Out of all the people, Vint Cerf is the brightest of the bunch, yet why doesn't the American congress just listen to him?
Vint was one of the true founders of the internet, it is his baby. Let Vint nuture his child. Not some corporate bureaucrat who wants to use it for wealth creation!
Rather than raising a child to do good, too many parents raise their children to be corporate pigs.
Shows how people have bad parenting skills who refuse to teach their kids ethics and morality. |
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asdjf
join:2005-01-01
·Cox HSI
| reply to rileyjam514
Re: Hmmm...
Spitzer's much more anti-corrupt than anticorporate. That he happens to go after a lot of corporations says more about those corporations being corrupt than it does about Spitzer's stance on corporations.
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | reply to moonpuppy
Re: Oh really?
'When you keep repeating the same line, verbatim, over and over again, then you are spouting off nothing but a PR line that has no sincerity in it.'
Kinda like what's happening right now with the opposition to the Bells. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here
1 edit | reply to TelecomJunky
Re: Read the articles
'That's right, we all pull over and give them preferential, QoS on our highways. We wait so they can get by unabated.'
It's also the law and it's unsafe to not slow down((edited to be made clear)). If you're on a 6 lane road and 4 lanes over a firetruck is coming from behind do you stop? No, of course not. The people who don't understand what Bell is doing remain steadfast to their initial gut feeling without actually looking at what is going on.
Another analogy with just as much merit as yours. Does Priority Mail slow down regular mail? |
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rileyjam514
There You Go Again...
join:2005-06-26
Kearny, NJ
| reply to G_Poobah
Re: More lies in writing by the telco's
Not to burst your bubble, but Rogers is a Canadian company. We're talking about what role American government has in the regulation of the telecom industry, in America.
Aside from that, I find myself agreeing with you.
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"It is my destiny to give back to the universe infinitely more than I have taken from it." -- Anonymous |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to bogey780
Re: Oh really?
said by bogey780 :'When you keep repeating the same line, verbatim, over and over again, then you are spouting off nothing but a PR line that has no sincerity in it.' Kinda like what's happening right now with the opposition to the Bells. And to whom are you referring? |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| reply to bogey780
Re: Read the articles
"Does Priority Mail slow down regular mail?"
Why, YES, it does, due to large batches of mail recieved in some towns, delivery of NON-Priority/Express mail was delayed, while priority mail continued to be delivered in a timely manner. In fact, the USPS even has their own WEB SITE listing places where the mail delivery is delayed! Why, just look at all destinating 701 ZIP Code. Only the priority mail is delivered, everything else is denied! And until very recently, all periodicals and bulk delivery to the 706 zip codes were SUSPENDED (regular traffic), but not Express Mail.
»www.usps.com/communications/news···ates.htm
Yet another corporate apologists who truly doesn't get it. There's a limited amount of resources available, and those who pay more get more. But the US mail is SUPPOSED to be unbiased, in fact, it's charter is written that way. The ONLY COMPANY that can deliver first class mail is the USPS. It's... gasp... a MONOPOLY. And it's run by the government, and it's STILL the cheapest way to send a package! Goodness Gracious! We can't afford to have that! Quick, Fedex, SUE the government cause the USPS is unfairly competing!
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Sure the internet has lots of porn and piracy, but I'm sure there's a downside to it. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Sick of the Telco blackmail and threats
I'm getting so tired of hearing the same threats and excuses used over and over by the big communications monopolies (Telcos).
At State, and Federal level they threaten "Give us everything we want, or else we won't build out the information infrastructure and deliver the future services America needs and wants.... and... we'll blame YOU for it..."
Maybe, if our politicians would develop some cajones and reply "Well, we consider advanced information infrastructure as important to national security and economic prosperity, so if you refuse to act in our national interest AND your OWN best interest you will leave us little choice but to use our "Eminent Domain" power to seize your companies infrastructure and assets and throw you out on your collective asses."
Of course, the Telco's know this won't happen. Why do they get to play Hardball but nobody else... simple... they pay the $$$ to own the politicians and the lobbyists.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | reply to moonpuppy
Re: Oh really?
Those who say they're going to block and degrade competitors service. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to asdjf
Re: Hmmm...
said by asdjf :Spitzer's much more anti-corrupt than anticorporate. That he happens to go after a lot of corporations says more about those corporations being corrupt than it does about Spitzer's stance on corporations. If he only goes after Corporations that are corrupt or corrupting politics then I will have no problem with him as the Telcos and their dollars are definitely corrupting our political system.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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