RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
 ·XMission
| Rats
And I was trying to get an Extra Class Ham license so that I could point a beam at the power lines and wipe out the internet.
Oh, wait a minute, we are getting Utopia, a much better solution.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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53059959
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone
1 edit | if you use wireless like that its not really bpl anymore. its just using your electrical outlet as a last-mile solution. after that could be anything, fiber, coax, twisted pair etc..
edit: also this was already mentioned in the morning broadband bytes  |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by 53059959  :if you use wireless like that its not really bpl anymore. its just using your electrical outlet as a last-mile solution. after that could be anything, fiber, coax, twisted pair etc.. edit: also this was already mentioned in the morning broadband bytes Just goes to show that the idea of using unshielded wire to transmit data is a bad idea. |
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p51d007
Naa-P51d Mustang
join:2002-06-07
Springfield, MO
| reply to RayW
hopeful
I bet that the reason the hams gave their blessing, is because they have been working with the industries trying to develope
BPL. With their input and help, perhaps it will become a reality.
Trust me, as a amateur operator, when the hurricanes/tornados/sky is falling/cellphone towers out/floods happen, amateur operators are usually the only ones who can get information in or out of an effected area.
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Coming to you from the home of Ozark Mountain Country. Where the air is clean, fishing is great, and we actually wear SHOES! |
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RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| Keep your batteries charged.
We had a baby F1 tornado here a few years ago, surprise! no cell, no POTS, and from what I was told, half of the emergency radio system did not work. Guess what did? (yup, them 'worthless' hams)
Caveat: All I need is to learn Morse, then I will have a extra license instead of a tech.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to p51d007
said by p51d007 :I bet that the reason the hams gave their blessing, is because they have been working with the industries trying to develope BPL. With their input and help, perhaps it will become a reality. Trust me, as a amateur operator, when the hurricanes/tornados/sky is falling/cellphone towers out/floods happen, amateur operators are usually the only ones who can get information in or out of an effected area. I thought the internet was to solve all of our problems. 
See what happens when you work with a group instead of against it.
BTW, I like the F4U better than the P51.  |
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plattypus1
join:2005-04-08
Riverside, CA
 ·Charter Pipeline
| The reason it works...
is because it's not truly BPL. It's a wireless broadband solution with pole-mounted repeaters, which uses HomePNA-esque equipment for last-mile.
And to the above poster who wanted an Extra-class license to take it down, you don't need it. Generals are allowed the full 1.5KW on HF, Extras just get a little more spectrum. Blast it in the General subband and it'll still go down. 
However, I'm glad to see that the amateur radio community is being listened to. We do know a thing or two about RF.
73 de KF6CZG/AG |
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Paulg
Displaced Yooper
Premium
join:2004-03-15
Neenah, WI
clubs: | reply to moonpuppy
Re: Rats
last time i checked, most of your CAT3/5/5e/6 is unshielded.
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I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponant. |
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Slacker44
join:2001-05-10
Gilbert, AZ | reply to RayW
Re: hopeful
And once again, BPL has ZERO to do with effecting HAMS during emergency situations. ZERO. Nothing.
And it never will. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| said by Slacker44 :And once again, BPL has ZERO to do with effecting HAMS during emergency situations. ZERO. Nothing. And it never will. How do you figure that?
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Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA | reply to Slacker44
You seem exceptionally confident in your findings - please share your research. |
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Slacker44
join:2001-05-10
Gilbert, AZ | reply to Slacker44
Hmm ok.
No power. No BPL. Doesn't effect HAMS.
Please don't play the disaster card. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Transmission isn't the issue. Reception is. BPL would be up and running and happily interfering with reception of the portable, low power transmitters being used in the blacked out area.
Try again.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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Slacker44
join:2001-05-10
Gilbert, AZ
| So you are saying that the emergency services who would be contacting the HAMS in the blacked out area would be near BPL? Not a chance.
Or am I not understanding this correctly. The HAMS in the blacked out area will obviously not be effected by BPL. The people they are contacting won't either because I dont think they would be stupid enough to set up near BPL. What about along the way? |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| You are assuming that the BPL system(s) would be isolated, away from any receivers, and would not be causing interference by significantly raising the noise floor miles from the power lines. The receiving stations (outside the blackout area) would most likely be using directional antennas from fixed locations (these things can be quite large) and if there is an operating BPL system nearby, reception could easily be disrupted by it.
You seem to be totally ignorant of how ad-hoc emergency communications are set up in these situations.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Paulg
Re: Rats
said by Paulg :last time i checked, most of your CAT3/5/5e/6 is unshielded. Different voltages and CAT wire is twisted pair which reduces interference and crosstalk. |
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RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| reply to Slacker44
Re: hopeful
said by Slacker44 :Hmm ok. No power. No BPL. Doesn't effect HAMS. Please don't play the disaster card. Get a life! People in the emergency area do not have power, but they want to talk to people OUTSIDE of the area who do! And they are running lower power systems to conserve the limited power (battery, solar, wind, portable generators both hand and gas powered) they do have. No 1500 watt transmitters with 6 element beams 300 feet in the air to give 3000 to 5000 watt effective radiated power to cut through the hash, think sub 100 watt units with verticals and long wires close to the ground. I can not believe you are foolish enough to believe that the relief supplies and manpower will perform a miracle and just appear where they are needed without information as to where it needs to go?
Get involved with the national relief groups of the Red Cross, the LDS, Baptist, and Catholic Churches, and others that are involved in this and see what goes on. These groups do not agree with you that no one needs to use a radio outside any piddling disaster area. Or if they do, then they are wasting a lot of money and time getting infrastructure to do so.
Do not know about your cities, but the cities around here are all getting EOCs that have ham radios both long and short distance. Your tax dollars being wasted? Maybe you ought to go check it out and complain to the city council if you feel so strongly about 'outdated' 'worthless' technology being paid for with your taxes? That is also why I want my Ham license, it will be much safer in the EOC than out casing buildings or whatever the disaster is.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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Slacker44
join:2001-05-10
Gilbert, AZ
| reply to RadioDoc
So MAYBE there will be interference IF they are within range. Right. And that is your entire justification for the anti-BPL BS we get from all the HAM nerds. That is what annoys me the most. People like me that don't understand HAMS at all can easily understand disaster argument is crap no matter how you spice it up. If the moons align right and all is wrong in the world, nerd #1 may not be able to talk to nerd #2. I am sure nerd #3 can handle it. You guys seem to be everywhere not that we see you in your basement. |
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Slacker44
join:2001-05-10
Gilbert, AZ
| reply to RayW
That was a lot of stuff. All I am saying is that I don't think you are right. I don't think BPL is going to cut off all the nerds from talking to eachother. I don't think BPL is going to take down the entire national relief program. You sir are a foolish nerd if you think so. Nerd HAM #1 in the disaster area can contact SOMEONE outside the disaster area I am sure. I bet he has a phone. All he as to do is call someone. Problem solved. You can get a life now. |
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N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA
| reply to Slacker44
said by Slacker44 :So you are saying that the emergency services who would be contacting the HAMS in the blacked out area would be near BPL? Not a chance. Or am I not understanding this correctly. The HAMS in the blacked out area will obviously not be effected by BPL. The people they are contacting won't either because I dont think they would be stupid enough to set up near BPL. What about along the way? It's not a case of stupidity with respect to the remote stations' locations! If BPL moves into my neighborhood and renders significant portions of spectrum unusable then that's one less station that can participate. If BPL were to become as ubiquitous as its proponents would desire then that's potentially many stations that cannot participate. I'm not prepared to accept _your_ guarantee that there will always be a station in an unaffected area!
Note also that the present abundance of potential stations is in part due to the fact that appropriate, unpolluted spectrum IS avaialable; were that spectrum resource to disappear, it is not unreasonable to assume that the pool of station resources would evaporate - who wants to maintain radios and related equipment that can never be used; how can necessary operating skills be developed or refined?
How likely is this scenario? that's the $64,000 question. With the abundant technical alternatives to BPL (or, indeed the more benign flavors of BPL such as is the topic of this thread) I see little need to proliferate such implementations of BPL that could bring about this situation. |
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