pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Stupid ISPs Screwed Themselves
You would think SBC, Verizon, BS and any other ISP who is considering the idea of charging content providers for access to their customers would have learned from Microsoft's experience with DOJ during the 1990s. You really don't want to do stupid things that get the government under your skin.
Any "remedy" the government provides now will not only screw over ISPs in ways they can't even begin to imagine, but they might also harm everyone else in the process.
--
Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! |
|
reub2000
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Evanston, IL
1 edit | Let an ISP try it
Just let an ISP try it, so they can learn how pissed off their customers will be. Then they'll realize how stupid of an idea it is and forget about it. |
|
TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
|  The internet is not a utility;it's a business like any other
"If access tiering takes hold, the Internet providers, rather than consumers, could become the driving force in how the Internet evolves. Those corporations’ profit-driven choices, rather than users’ choices, would determine which sites and methodologies succeed and fail. You mean like just about every other marketing driven industry in America. So why should internet access be exempt from the rules of capitalism, just like the auto industry and the cereal industry or the coffee industry.
Guess what, the internet is not a utility, it is a business just like any other.
--
--
Join Red Room Forum
BLOG tkjunkmail.blogspot.com
Conrail Photo Album |
|
richk_1957
If ..Then..Else
Premium
join:2001-04-11
Minas Tirith | This is scary, but I'm not suprised
Big business wants money & they don't care what the common person thinks. Make them pay, make them pay, so we can make more money
This Senator, Ron Wyden, is actually making sense. |
|
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: The internet is not a utility;it's a business like any other
said by TKJunkMail  :So why should internet access be exempt from the rules of capitalism, just like the auto industry and the cereal industry or the coffee industry. Any network connection which offers hobbled access to pre-determined sites is not an Internet connection. It's a "which website did your ISP get money from to allow you to go to today" connection.
When I hear about this idea, I always think of a car that you lease which is "programmed" to not be able to go any McDonald's store because McDonald's didn't pay the car company for the privilege. Of course, you can still drive to Wendy's because they paid. Or if you lease a truck, the truck manufacturer or leasing company doing something to make a particular trailer hitch not work because the trailer hitch company did not pay for the privilege.
Both ideas sound absurd, and to call this type of access "Internet access" is even more absurd.
--
Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! |
|
moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :"If access tiering takes hold, the Internet providers, rather than consumers, could become the driving force in how the Internet evolves. Those corporations’ profit-driven choices, rather than users’ choices, would determine which sites and methodologies succeed and fail. You mean like just about every other marketing driven industry in America. So why should internet access be exempt from the rules of capitalism, just like the auto industry and the cereal industry or the coffee industry. Guess what, the internet is not a utility, it is a business just like any other. Just tell me how the phone company was so good at innovation before the breakup of ATT?
During that time, touch tone service was extra, long distance service was expensive, you couldn't buy your own phone (had to be rented), etc.
Also, the reason cell phone service is the way it is today is because it was mandated to have 2 competing systems in each area. Because of this, now we have the choice allowed to us today.
As for the high speed companies, do you believe it is o.k. for them to restrict others from coming into an area and providing service EVEN IF THEY PROVIDE THEIR OWN INFRASTRUCTURE? |
|
nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to pnh102
Re: Stupid ISPs Screwed Themselves
said by pnh102 :You would think SBC, Verizon, BS and any other ISP who is considering the idea of charging content providers for access to their customers would have learned from Microsoft's experience with DOJ during the 1990s. You really don't want to do stupid things that get the government under your skin. And what lesson is that? That you can get away with it?
-tom
--
"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) |
|
JimF
join:2003-06-15
Allentown, PA | Free market pricing
I can't think of any reason that the free market should not decide on the right mix of prices and services on the Internet just like every other part of our economy. The fact that the NY Times is against it just proves what a good idea it is. |
|
TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to moonpuppy
Re: The internet is not a utility;it's a business like any other
said by moonpuppy :Just tell me how the phone company was so good at innovation before the breakup of ATT? They weren't and that is because they were a regulated utility just like is being championed by many here and elsewhere. The innovation didn't happen until the government got their big nose out of it.
--
--
Join Red Room Forum
BLOG tkjunkmail.blogspot.com
Conrail Photo Album |
|
bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL
| reply to TKJunkMail
When a company can decide what information is made available, even if playing the capitalistic 'money card', to it's customers then it is time that some oversight is needed. KNOWLEDGE is a right of the American public, and when that knowledge can be skewed, changed , or misdirected to achieve a non-total TRUTH , then something has to be done. Knowledge is power which needs some type of checks and balances. |
|
RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| reply to nixen
Re: Stupid ISPs Screwed Themselves
Clinton sued M$ because Bill did not pay his share of the graft (and gave Bill many chances to get it right). Bill paid graft to the dems and repubs, Bush dropped the suit.
Moral: if you want to screw the people, pay the big political parties off and you can do what ever you want.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
|
joeam2
Got any bugs?
join:2005-02-27
Saint Clair, MI
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: The internet is not a utility;it's a business like any other
I disagree completely with that statement!
Just try and find a college or university that doesn't offer, if not require, on-line classes. Try and find a government institution at any level that doesn't offer services or at least make its presence known on the web. How many businesses depend on the web for their lively-hood? With each and every passing day the internet is becoming more essential for the citizens of this country.
Do you honestly want Verizon, ATT, Bell South, etc. to decide which web sites you are allowed to see based on their advertising contracts and/or payola for on-line exposure? I know I don't!
And as far as capitalism is concerned, you are already paying your ISP for their services. Isn't that enough? |
|
The_Rich_Are_Not_Cap
@comcast.net | reply to TKJunkMail
"The innovation didn't happen until the government got their big nose out of it."
Almost every bit of internet and telephony innovation in the last 20 years stem from the breakup of AT&T. |
|
nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to RayW
Re: Stupid ISPs Screwed Themselves
said by RayW :Clinton sued M$ because Bill did not pay his share of the graft (and gave Bill many chances to get it right). Bill paid graft to the dems and repubs, Bush dropped the suit. Moral: if you want to screw the people, pay the big political parties off and you can do what ever you want. Given that the Telcos and other parties interested in tiering already "lobby" heavily, I'd say they already know this lesson well. MicroSoft's problem was, they were too new and didn't yet know this lesson. Now they do.
-tom
--
"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) |
|
guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix
| reply to pnh102
Re: The internet is not a utility;it's a business like any other
said by pnh102 :Both ideas sound absurd, and to call this type of access "Internet access" is even more absurd. That's very fine points you raise and I agree with you, both ideas are absurd.However to me this sounds as if it's a case of controlled censorship and uncontrolled greed.All bundled up in one package, friggen azzholes.
--
Bass....the glue of rhythm and harmony...the heartbeat of the band.! Shaking the earth with deep,sonorous vibrations.The dark ominous thunder of an approching storm. |
|
FTCXtreme
join:2005-03-14
New Braintree, MA
| reply to moonpuppy
I wasn't alive during the 80s,so I dont even know the difference between touch tone service, and not having it. My best guess, is that you had to call the operater to before you had to call people.
Now, cable, you have to rent the digital cable boxes, pay extra for digital service. So im sure in the future you will probably be able to go out and buy your own cable boxes. But cabe is still young compared to phones. Cable has been around for what? 30 years. Phone, for a long time(dont remember the date on hand). infact Alex Bell, only beat his competitor, I think his name was William Grey, beat him to the patent office by an hour. Now imagine if that didn't happen, and Grey got their first. Would we have the Grey System instead of the bell system.
Im probably the youngest person on these forums, but dont use that against me. But, Network nuetrality, is something thats important. As "old_repub" says the internet is a business, but Its more then that. The internet is the global information super highway, a place for business, conecting with loved ones, educations, pr0n, and alot more. The idea that you can just limit the content because a provider wants to, is just bull crap. In the age internet is a utility, a new one but one thats going to stay for a LONG time. its as important, as phone, and electricity. By the time I have kids, the internet, will be as standard in American homes as a phone, or a TV. Whether it be, sattelite, DSL, Cable, Fibre Optics, or Dial-up, We are all internet users and deserve the same rights, and access to information. Thats why network Nuetrality is important. |
|
RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| reply to nixen
Re: Stupid ISPs Screwed Themselves
Yes, Microsoft got too big too fast and missed some of the learning stages. I find it interesting that even though Clinton started it and Bush let them off, the Democrats get more money from Microsoft Corp, but the Republicans get more from the individual Microsoft management types. Never have been able to figure that out (although I have guesses).
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
|
RossHSTL
@hometel.com
| hmm
When people play the capitalism card they often forget that for capitalism to work you have to have competing companies offer the same services. In many places people only have one choice so if that company goes forward with tiered internet they have no other option but to use that company. |
|
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: The internet is not a utility;it's a business like any other
said by TKJunkMail :The innovation didn't happen until the government got their big nose out of it. AT&T fought the government literally to the death when it was being broken up. If it was not for Judge Greene's ruling or some other government action, AT&T would have continued to operate in the same manner that it had prior to 1984.
Even after that, innovations like answering machines, cheap long distance, cell phones and the like came as the result of the work of other companies, not AT&T.
Of course, we now have AT&T coming back together again. I can't wait till all of their local customers will be required to rent their phones as a result!
--
Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! |
|
