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Forums » BellSouth: Considering Billing By the Byte?
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Comments on news posted 2006-03-02 16:20:28: The Wall Street Journal reports that BellSouth is considering a number of new pricing schemes, including a "bill by the byte" model. ..

page: 1 · 2
cybercrimes

join:2003-12-24
Phoenixville, PA

corp greed

Greed will put them under just wait till over sea's co will take over

Phil
Rojo Sol
Premium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA

They can byte me...

The wireless phone has this pegged, but to go backwards and try and pass it onto the current market of broadband users isn't going to fly, IMO.
--
Correcting one "looser" at a time.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

If they do it right....

99% of all internet user's would never see a difference. It is the network abusers that need to be addressed here.

The everyday "average" user, won't be effected. It is the morons downloading 100's of GB a month on a residential line that need to be addressed as that effects just about everyone, not just the people on their direct node or ISP.

Before the flaming and excuses start as to why you are one of those "special" people that needs to download so much take note that I say "a month". It is one thing to use your bandwidth excessively once or twice a year, but to do it every single month is ridiculous and you should pay more.

You pay more to use your car more, to use more natural gas, to use more electricity, to use more water, to smoke more, to eat more, to talk on your cell phone more, for more car insurance, for drinking more beer, to sniff more coke, to host a bigger website, why should you not pay more to use your internet more? Face it, to get more you have to pay more. 99.99999% of all economics (and life in general) works that way so get over it.

IMHO, This is not just a matter of more speed as many will claim, it is a matter of content. It doesnt matter if it takes 10 seconds or 10 minutes to download 1GB. Nor does it matter if that 1GB is legal or illegal material. The people that abuse the network will saturate their connection no matter what it is. And network saturation is the true problem. They arent surfing more pages, getting and sending more email. They are getting more content and will continue to do so regardless of speed and regardless of the size. The speed just helps them get more of it faster.
Westofhere

join:2005-04-07
Monroe, WA

cry babies

Why should the internet be any different from any other utility?
If you want internet to be a utility then you need to be charged for it like a utility?
You guys are whining because your bandwidth hogs. Consider the little guy who hardly uses much bandwidth, this will be great for them. And for you hogs well, deal with it. Or start your own ISP!

danawhitaker
Space...The Final Frontier
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Urbandale, IA
·MSN
·Mediacom

Re: cry babies

I don't think of it as a utility. It's not the same as water, or electricity, or gas. Those are things that can be physically used up and which no longer exist after they are. It's not like BellSouth sticks a little device onto your line each month that holds a certain amount of bandwidth and then when you use all that up, it's gone forever. The pipe still exists and can be used, and in many cases, probably without other users being any wiser.

I hate the response that I see to threads like this. Yes, I'm a heavy user. Even if I weren't, however, this would irk me on principle alone. If companies want to push multimedia content, downloadable TV, and streaming video, they cannot go to this model. It will kill the technology where it sits.

I'm old enough to remember AOL before it was unlimited usage. I joined about a month or two before they switched. It was *horrible*. I never want to go back to that type of model for internet.

I'm "whining" because I actually like to use my connection. I don't just browse forums and read e-mail. And while you can try and argue that's what the majority of the consumers do, times *are* changing, whether you like that or not. Looking back at DU Meter, there was a period of days in November where I was in the hospital for surgery. I wasn't here to use the connection, no one else used it either. All that was open and running on my machine were BOINC, Trillian, and mIRC chat channels. I was not actively downloading anything. Every single day, I used almost 300 megs. I was not transferring any files.

Most people don't really even know how much bandwidth they're using. They don't monitor, so they have absolutely no clue. They think a model like this sounds good because they can't possibly use the internet "that" much, when in reality, they don't even understand how much "that much" is or how fast it can add up. This type of pricing model would, if adopted by all ISPs, absolutely kill things like Linux distribution and downloading software and movies and TV and music from legitimate services, and VOIP, and gaming. There *are* legitimate services, you know.

If you're using *that* little bandwidth, truly, that you think you're being ripped off, go back to dial-up, or leech off a friend's connection somehow for everything you need, or use your work connection. I don't have a cell phone because most of the plans I see are ridiculously overpriced and have features I don't need or want. I don't buy a phone and complain about my overpriced plan - I simply don't have one. I bypass the issue entirely. If you think broadband is overpriced for what you use it for, get rid of it, or get the cheapest and slowest plan available to you.

The funniest thing about this is that alot of the people I often see whining about people who are against a "by the byte" model have VOIP tags. You rail against the phone companies for charging by the minute for long distance, and insist on getting something like Vonage so you can have unlimited calling to the U.S. and Canada. Yet, when the same phone company who charges by the minute for long distance wants to charge by the byte for internet, you think it's a good idea?
--
You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around...
cybercrimes

join:2003-12-24
Phoenixville, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast

they will go under

this is why co. go under do to there greed they want to mak money on per byte. take fo intant when people dont reallise is that there on a per byte plan when they start to download file like 100mb they will get a big bill and they will have to pay it and thats how bell south willl make there money
DSL Oberst

join:2001-11-29

Excellent!

It is truly a 'capital' idea. As I can afford the bandwidth I utilize, I don't truly see a problem with it. After all, if I'm being the hog, it is my public duty to pay for what I use. If I want T1 service, I don't mind paying for it. It's the same with shipping; if I want to recepient to get a package the next day I don't send it 3rd class mail. That's an argument that cannot be refuted. Don't try to drink champagne on that beer budget!

I wonder if people who disagree to billing by the byte also disagree with ala carte cable programming? After all, paying per the byte, paying per channel wanted - I pay for what I use. Otherwise, why not demand that I get all the channels for 20 bucks or so?

Filet mignon is the same way; should it be priced the same as hamburger because it's all meat? Heck no! You. Pay. For. What. You. Get. If you want the luxurious uberbandwidth, pony it up! Your downloads of movies or mp3s or whatnot should cost something.

Of course, then there are the mentioned cases of Japan and South Korea and their nearly-free fat pipes. Of course they have them! They're all government-owned and paid for...through taxation. If we want the government to build our own nearly-free fat pipes through taxation, let's go for it and follow their lead.

Oh, wait? No government intervention? Ah, I guess it's the capitalist route of "Where's MAH MONEY!" for you.

You have two basic choices, people. Either have the government to do it or pay the corporations. They're the only two entities that have the ability to affect things on a national scale in this country.

Personally, I'll take the corporations. You can bribe them. Governments tend to be less reliable when given 'incentives'; no politician ever stays bought.

juicelee
Premium
join:2000-12-04
Hacienda Heights, CA
clubs:

Always short sighted

I hope BS's focus on making a quick buck in the short term kills their stock price in a few years.

chaser7016

@comcast.net

damn why do i need a subject!

Who wants to share ANY(from big media to little joe)copyrighted material legally? Who wants to make broadband Internet access universally affordable? Who isnt excited about future Internet innovations? Who hates DRM and wants to see our fair use rights remain as they are? Who wants to see the cable TV business model die?

If you answered and agreed to those above then pricing by the byte would allow for these things to occur! It would create a new free market!

See

Monthly Bandwidth Allotment
chemaupr

join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA

So this will be speed on demand...

So why I want a 5000/2000 kbps for browsing the web... this idea is so stupid... why charging for the byte,,, well they top the grow in subscrition and now the one new sources of revenue... Instead of developing new and better services, they will milk us for the same crapy services...

Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet

This sounds like VERY old news.

I don't get it, what is new about this? Isn't this what most ISPs with caps do, set a transfer cap and then charge in excess when you go over your cap?

Bell Sympatico did this a while back when they introduced caps. Charge was $8 CAD per GB over your cap. Videotron is still doing it, but I don't know what their current price is. Videotron has a somewhat decent policy though, since they set a limit of $30 (I think) on the overage charges. So if you're willing to pay $30 extra, you have no cap. Of course, that'd be stupid, because their extreme tier has no cap, is faster, and only costs a few dollars more than regular.

So, anyhow, isn't this already par for the course? Why is this being called a "new pricing scheme"?
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koolman2
Premium
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK
·GCI.net

Huh? I thought that this was already done?

My cable company charges .5¢/MB ($5.12/GB) that you go over on your limit. Mine happens to be 10,240 MB, or 10 GB. I thought that I've heard of other companies doing that as well? I mean, why set a limit of, say, 30 GB, and then let people go over without a penalty?

Now, if this is just supposed to be new to DSL, then I can understand I guess.
--
"I wonder if other dogs think poodles are members of a weird religious cult." -Rita Rudner

csnewbie

join:2001-02-12
Atlanta, GA

BS don't be stupid

the only reason i'm with bellsouth is no caps. the moment they pull this crap then i'm outa here. bellsouth billing by the byte at 3-6mp versus comcast 6-8mb 300+gb monthly caps.

jeep4fun
Premium
join:2005-03-30
Littleton, CO

Similarities to video ala carte?

Isn't this similar to the cable cos being asked to charge per channel; i.e. usage versus tiering? If charging per byte is 'greedy', why is ala carte pricing best for the consumer for video?

murfster
Under Siege
Premium
join:2001-03-04
Mcdonough, GA
clubs:

I'm not following

I guess I'm not following the logic here. Doesn't BS already have a tier access? Lite, Ultra, Xtreme and Xtreme 6.0? Seems to me that they have in place the consumers option of access. Their modems are capped based on the plan they provide. The statement by Mr. Smith: "Overall at BellSouth, 1% of broadband customers drive 40% of Internet traffic, he says. "People who drive cost in the network create additional charges in the network," Mr. Smith says. "If my elderly parents don't use a lot of traffic we ought to be able to create a service plan that meets their needs." ... simply does not hold water. His parents simply choose Lite and move on. They save the cost, use the internet lightly and pay less.
It just seems to me that BS is trying to get creative to generate more revenue. It's in brain-storming session and this is one of the ideas. I hope, after 6 years with BS DSL, I don't have to switch ISP's.
--

GMC Forums
UnitedGamerz

Just_Some_Guy

@pacbell.n

hmmm

I just happened to be reading this lengthy but interesting look at peering agreements between ISP's. They face the same issues in dealing with one another given that they also have provider/client relationships with one another. Here's the pertinent section:

* Internet Settlement Accounting by the packet. Internet interconnection accounting is a packet-based accounting issue, because there is no "call minute" in the Internet architecture. Therefore, the most visible difference between the two environments is the replacement of the call with the packet as the currency unit of interconnection. Although we can argue that a Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) session has much in common with a call, this concept of an originating TCP call minute is not always readily identified within the packet forwarding fabric, and accordingly it is not readily apparent that this is a workable settlement unit. Unlike a telephony call, no concept of state initiation exists to pass a call request through a network and lock down a network transit path in response to a call response. The network undergoes no state change in response to a TCP session, and therefore, no means is readily available to the operator to identify that a call has been initiated, and by which party. Of course the use of UDP, and various forms of tunneling traffic, also confound any such TCP call minute accounting mechanism.
* Packets may be dropped. When a packet is passed across an interconnection from one provider to another, no firm guarantee is given by the second provider that the packet will definitely be delivered to the destination. The second provider, or subsequent providers in the transit path, may drop the packet for quite legitimate reasons, and will remain within the protocol specification in so doing. Indeed, the TCP protocol uses packet drop as a rate-control signal. For the efficient operation of the TCP protocol, some level of packet drop is a useful and anticipated event. However, if a packet is used as the accounting unit in a general cost distribution environment, should the provider who receives and subsequently drops the packet be able to claim an accounting credit within the interconnection? The logical response is that such accounting credits should apply only to successfully delivered packets, but such an accounting structure is highly challenging to implement accurately within the Internet environment.
* Routing and traffic flow are not always paired. Packet forwarding is not a verified operation. A provider may choose to forward a packet to a second provider without reference to the particular routes the second provider is advertising to the first party. A packet also may be forwarded to the second provider with a source address that is not being advertised to the second provider. Given that the generic Internet architecture strives for robustness under extreme conditions, attempts to forward a packet to its addressed destination are undertaken irrespective of how the packet may have arrived at this location in the first place, and irrespective of how a packet with reverse header IP addresses will transit the network.
* Comprehensive routing information is not uniformly available. Complete information is not available to the Internet regarding the status and reachability of every possible Internet address. Only as a packet is forwarded closer to the addressed destination does more complete information regarding the status of the destination address become apparent to the provider. Accordingly a packet may have incurred some cost of delivery before its ultimate undeliverability becomes evident. An intermediate transit provider can never be completely assured that a packet is deliverable.
Here's a funny, albeit somewhat unlikely scenario;

Say you get infected with spyware. Prior to removing, you write down the IRC login/password that mr. botherder uses for c&c. You logon to the channel and tell the guy he's an a**hole. He then uses his herd to DDoS you and you have to pay for bandwidth? That sucks

The similarities in the ISP's provider/client relationships with one another and our own provider/client relationship with the ISP's bring to light thier hypocrisy. Like when some of the Bells used to whine about loss of margin when we started using VOIP, while they pioneered the use of VOIP to escape tarriffs when dealing with one another.

Ahh, then again, what the hell do I know

Ohh yeah, here's the article:
»www.isoc.org/inet99/proceedings/···1.htm#s1
Forums » BellSouth: Considering Billing By the Byte?page: 1 · 2


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