amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| crooks
those crooks just don't want to admit that their network isn't all that...
a packet is a packet is a packet people, and having "quality" service is what you should have to begin with. so are they saying that 'quality' on anything else that requires decent latency also sucks without this mafia fee? If I were a gamer with this ISP, I'd be furious.
Idiots. Why did they buy fancy new routers/switches etc in the first place if they don't expect people to use them? I really don't get it. This is just stuck on stupid. As ISP's, they should be giving the BEST that they can no matter what people use it for.
What about Net2Phone? What about games like WOW, secondlife, Everquest, Counterstrike.................
What about video? What about MOVIE services? What about streaming music services? What the heck do they expect their users to use the internet for? email? Got news for you morons, this is 2006, and people don't just chat or send/recieve the occasional email.
Maybe they should've just never bough any new upgrades to any of their equipment and sold dialup cable. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| said by amungus  :a packet is a packet is a packet people, No, it isn't. There are file download packets, and browsing packets, and then there are real-time packets that can't be delayed and need QOS guarantees to work - like voice conversations.
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ke4pym
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC | Too bad...
No one is willing to put up and shut up and vote with their wallets and shut their services off... |
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NGOwner
join:2000-11-21
Leawood, KS
| Recommended NOT Required
Read the release. It's a recommended (meaning optional) feature, not a required one. The customer still has the choice of whether to pay or not.
Shaw could do the exact same thing for gaming, or gambling, or videoconferencing, etc.
[NG]Owner
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It is impossible to create an idiot-proof product. Humanity is simply too adept at churning out better idiots. |
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amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: crooks
ok, you got me. sorry. so I guess my main point is more along the line that other things besides voice need it. that isp's should be able to handle it. and that one should not be having to pay extra money in order to use it.
granted, I also think in the back of my head, that phone through internet has a long way to go before being nearly as reliable as plain ol' telephone service. |
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jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ | What does $10 get you?
Does $10 get you a guaranteed service level?
If you don't pay $10, are they actively discriminating against certain packets? This would be very bad. |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
1 edit | customers slams Vonage $39 termination fee
Before you consider vonage know these things
1. There is a $39 cancellation fee.
2. There is $10 charge to port your number if you didnt at signup.
3. Customer support is in india or canada.
4. You cant email them, they dont want to help you.
I disagree with shaws fee though.... |
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chesney09
Premium
join:2004-07-26
Redford, MI
clubs:
| reply to Anon
Re: Too bad...
I'd have to agree with Doc on this...But...
The problem may be that there isn't any other choice?
I know if my Cable ISP decided to hit me with $10 charge, I'd have to pay it or switch to DSL..> Which of course I'd have to have a POTS line to get.. Unless I pay 60-8o a month for dry line from Covad. All of which kills any savings that I was enjoying by using cable and Vonage.
Where does the consumer win? |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: crooks
As usual, your corporate astroturfing attempts to divert the problem by stating incorrect facts and outright lies.
Lie #1 : Real-Time packets need QOS and can't be delayed : OUTRIGHT LIE. Read about how internet 2 solved this issue. It was a technical issue, and the solution was NOT QOS, it was upgrading the network.
Lie #2 : QOS Solves the problem. Another OUTRIGHT LIE. QOS solves the problem ONLY if they traffic load is at 100%. In any working network, QOS does NOTHING to the traffic until there is too much traffic. If Shaw is running at 100% load, then they have bigger problems than QOS will ever solve.
Lie #3 : There are different kinds of packets. Another OUTRIGHT LIE. All packets are treated equally. As long as the NETWORK is working correctly, then the traffic will work correctly. I can be running at 95% load, and my VoIP should have NO MORE LATENCY than if I were running at 5% load. LATENCY is not related to TRAFFIC LOAD until the traffic load is at 100%. If there is Latency at sub 100% loads, then the network has problems (hardware/misconfiguration/not powerful enough routers/etc), but QOS isn't the solution.
Another pack of lies by people who want to rip you off. There is no techncial reason whatsoever you should have to pay more to get acceptable internet service. This is an outright greed tax, that solves nothing. Want proof? Just encyrpt your traffic, poof, no more problems.
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odreian615
join:2006-01-18
Chicago, IL | vonage commercials
I am black but that black chic on the vonage commercials is very annoying she looks like she's talking out the side of her mouth |
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chesney09
Premium
join:2004-07-26
Redford, MI
clubs:
| reply to DaveNJ
Re: customers slams Vonage $39 termination fee
Intersting note on the $39 cancellation fee, didn't know that.
I don't see it unreasonable to charge a fee to port a number if you didn't port it at sign up.
Isn't ALL support in India/phillipines?
YOu can't email anyone.. No Telco,Cable, ISP, Service provider wants to help you.. It cuts their bottom line.
(This isn't 100% factual, but they do make it damn near impossible.) |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
 ·AT&T Midwest
| reply to chesney09
Re: Too bad...
That's a good point and would be a concern if Shaw was preventing the customer from using Vonage if the $10 isn't paid. But they aren't. The customer can continue doing what they are doing, ignoring the "preferred treatment" much like someone who buys a cheap-fare coach ticket ignores the people in first class as they walk on by.
In fact, this sounds more like Shaw has been taking marketing lessons from Monster Cable...if people are silly enough to pay it, why not sell it to them? 
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to G_Poobah
Re: crooks
said by G_Poobah :Lie #1 : Real-Time packets need QOS and can't be delayed : OUTRIGHT LIE. Read about how internet 2 solved this issue. It was a technical issue, and the solution was NOT QOS, it was upgrading the network. OUTRIGHT TRUTH:
Only in fantasy land will a network exist that can't reach 100% at some point in time. Join the real world.
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Mizzat
Will post for thumbs
Premium
join:2003-05-03
Atlanta, GA | reply to jjoshua
Re: What does $10 get you?
Packet discrimination, hahaha! The new hate crime? |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| reply to TKJunkMail
Let's go back to your original lie
said by TKJunkMail :said by G_Poobah :Lie #1 : Real-Time packets need QOS and can't be delayed : OUTRIGHT LIE. Read about how internet 2 solved this issue. It was a technical issue, and the solution was NOT QOS, it was upgrading the network. OUTRIGHT TRUTH: Only in fantasy land will a network exist that can't reach 100% at some point in time. Join the real world. OUTRAGEOUS LIE: when you're implying Shaw will have to spend even a dime on handling VoIP packets.
What a BS. |
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sieklucki1
join:2002-08-12
Liverpool, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Charter Pipeline
| reply to G_Poobah
Re: crooks
Well put--a user's packets should all be treated equally.
VOIP should not suffer degradation alone, if VOIP is working badly, all other internet traffic should be working equally badly. Of course, if the internet is slow a customer will move to a different provider.
However, a similar argument works for good quality. If everything but VOIP works well then the provider is artificially degrading VOIP and thus not really providing internet access as most companies advertise.
As for charging extra--if I pay for internet access all my packets should be delivered to me equally (well or badly). I should not be penalized for having "different types" of packets. |
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amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| reply to G_Poobah
ok, you got him. both of you must have a bit more knowledge than I... either way, agreed that it's greed.
didn't even consider internet2, yeah, they've been toying with that for quite some time...
...your first "Outright lie!" ...don't real time packets need low latency/fast access??? perhaps not qos, as we're arguing here in this thread, but do they not need the low latency? I always thought that was the point of having high speed internet, that it was also supposed to be low latency...
that's where my thought of them (shaw, or any isp) upgrading equipment comes in... for what purpose again??? oh yeah, so people could benefit from faster, lower latency network access...
let the neutrality wars begin.
I would bet on gamers to weigh in on this more and more as they begin to realize that these things could also affect them more... I play some online games, barely, but when I do, I expect them to work. Many isp's have touted their services as being fit for such things... suddenly they aren't??????? ooops. |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| reply to chesney09
Re: customers slams Vonage $39 termination fee
said by chesney09 :Intersting note on the $39 cancellation fee, didn't know that. I don't see it unreasonable to charge a fee to port a number if you didn't port it at sign up. Isn't ALL support in India/phillipines? YOu can't email anyone.. No Telco,Cable, ISP, Service provider wants to help you.. It cuts their bottom line. (This isn't 100% factual, but they do make it damn near impossible.) Why should i have to paid to port my number if it was free when i signed up, put choose not to. But after i have to ? That doesnt make sense, every cellular provider will port a number free with new service.
No you CAN.
I have emailed and got responses to within hours with these companies.
Sprint, Cingular , ATT, Patmedia cable, etc |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: crooks
said by TKJunkMail :said by G_Poobah :Lie #1 : Real-Time packets need QOS and can't be delayed : OUTRIGHT LIE. Read about how internet 2 solved this issue. It was a technical issue, and the solution was NOT QOS, it was upgrading the network. OUTRIGHT TRUTH: Only in fantasy land will a network exist that can't reach 100% at some point in time. Join the real world. If a network is running at 40% people will feel it, a network at 100% is likely the same a highway at 100% nothing is going to happen. 40% is usually the limit before upgrades are needed. |
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