gomer1701ems
join:2001-08-23
Minneapolis, MN | Tri-cities?
Tri-cities?
1. Minneapolis
2. St. Paul
3. ??? |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Fixed. |
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gomer1701ems
join:2001-08-23
Minneapolis, MN
| Oh, no problem. It's just that I've lived here all my life, and didn't know we had a "third" city! 
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"Don't argue with stupid people; they will beat you with experience." |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors
Question: Will Comcast increase their profits by deliberately screwing up (adding latency, or even smarter, adding jitter) to the VoIP traffic of all the competitors in that area?
Answer: Yes
Thus : If you have VoIP services from a competitor in that area, prepare to see it go to hell. Comcast makes more money by forcing you to use their service (a LOT more in most cases), thus some middle manager with access to the sandvine, or p-cube (cisco) box will QOS your VoIP packets from (vonage, sunrocket, whomever) to hell, while prioritizing their own traffic.
Solution: Federal Regulators checking comcast with highly skilled engineers from Vonage/Competitors acting as advisers, going into Comcasts offices/POPS/etc, to see if such equipment exists. Fully armed jack booted thugs, instead of working for the **AA's, can be transferred to attack Comcast in fishing expeditions. If the feds can get away with fishing expeditions against citizens, then the citizens can get away with fishing expeditions against the megacorps (i.e. the 'owners' of the feds). If found, Comcast should be fined billions, and their executives jailed for blatantly lying that they would never do such a thing. It's time for the Feds to make an example of Comcast, to prevent their tricks from becoming 'the standard' for all ISP's.
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Flabby? pastey-skinned? riddled with phlebitis? Then you've got a good Republican body! So compare your lives to mine, and then kill yourself. |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | reply to gomer1701ems
Re: Tri-cities?
I grew up in a part of NY called the "triple cities", so it was just a brain fart.  |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou | reply to G_Poobah
Re: Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors
When has Comcast degraded other VoIP traffic? Did I miss a post about this?
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:: my trivial ramblings :: |
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salahx
join:2001-12-03
Saint Louis, MO
| reply to G_Poobah
Comcast doesn't need to. The service Comcast is selling uses the same technology as Vonage as friends, but at a completely different service level.
Standard VOIP uses the Internet to send it packets to/from your VOIP provider There are no QOS guarantees on the Internet. Comcast's service actually uses a private network, it does not travel over the public Internet; thus Comcast can provide carrier-grade service.
Vonage and most other VOIP provers are "best effort" providers and cannot offer carrier-grade service like your regular phone company can. Since Comcast controls their VOIP from end-to-end; they can provider lifeline service with the same regular quality as a ILEC/CLEC.
The service Comcast is proving is suitable for an only phone line. The best-effort providers are not. |
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Chiyo
Save Me Konata-Chan
Premium
join:2003-02-20
Minneapolis, MN
clubs: | I'll stick with my T-mobile cell phone thx Comcast. Please for the love of god Verizon help us Twin city folk out  Were in Comcast and Qwest hell. |
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BoyNamedSue
@208.17.x.x
| reply to G_Poobah
Ummm..I hate to burst your anti-corporate hate bubble...But I live in NewCastle Delawhere and Comcast CDV has been available for months..I have Vonage and it works fine.
Must be an oversight, huh?  |
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amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| reply to G_Poobah
quote:
Fully armed jack booted thugs
that's funny.
quote:
If the feds can get away with fishing expeditions against citizens, then the citizens can get away with fishing expeditions against the megacorps
good luck to ya.
..and billions? I doubt it. I mean, sure, there should be some 'neutrality' to their network, but fining them BILLIONS won't help any... would you rather they were bankrupted and nobody had any access to anything? I know that's not what you mean, but surely there are better ways.
back to topic... those prices are just silly. who wouldn't rather go for another service at those prices? battery backup is nice, but one could also get themselves a cheapo UPS just for their modem/router/phone and probably do just fine for WAY less money.
all the voip confrontation and smack talk makes me laugh. I still like net2phone. run it on a laptop (battery powered..) and have a UPS on the modem/router, there ya go. granted, nobody can 'call' me back, but I really don't care. What I really want to know, is why haven't regular POTS services prices dropped more? A landline should be so much cheaper than it is, esp for in-state/local calling, when in fact the opposite seems true... I still refer people to stick with POTS for reliability/ease of use etc. but so much VOIP is really a lot cheaper.
Don't know what Cox's phone plan is, but I thought I saw cheaper prices than $40 bundled!
Don't care if cable has a nice service for voice, one should still be able to leverage that same level of service for whatever applications they wish to use through said service. ..Hence the "debate" over "neutrality" all over the place.
If everyone took a step back from their own ignorance to reality, and made some real decisions based on what is truly best for everyone, none of this hogwash would be happening. |
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john1290
join:2003-12-06
Reynoldsburg, OH
| reply to salahx
said by salahx  :Comcast doesn't need to. The service Comcast is selling uses the same technology as Vonage as friends, but at a completely different service level. Standard VOIP uses the Internet to send it packets to/from your VOIP provider There are no QOS guarantees on the Internet. Comcast's service actually uses a private network, it does not travel over the public Internet; thus Comcast can provide carrier-grade service. Vonage and most other VOIP provers are "best effort" providers and cannot offer carrier-grade service like your regular phone company can. Since Comcast controls their VOIP from end-to-end; they can provider lifeline service with the same regular quality as a ILEC/CLEC. The service Comcast is proving is suitable for an only phone line. The best-effort providers are not. You are so dumb. You sound like a 12 or 14 year old who thinks he knows way more than he does. Tell me, what happens after you dial a number to somebody on the other side of the country and your call leaves Comcast's "private network" or do you think that every number you dial terminates in Comcasts "private network"? Also, your comment about how they own the call from end-to-end is laughable.
Do yourself a favor and go read up on, and FULLY understand, how VoIP works before saying stupid things like this. Or do you work for CC and are just here to spread FUD and herd the sheep over a cliff? |
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JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
| reply to DaSneaky1D
said by DaSneaky1D :When has Comcast degraded other VoIP traffic? Did I miss a post about this? You haven't . G_Poobah is just being G_Poobah. There is no facts to back up his comment. Hell even Comcast COO has said they(we) will not block voip. Here there is even a link.
»www.multichannel.com/article/CA5···+News&re
we= I work for Comcast |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| reply to salahx
I have to say you are mistaken. Follow the logical question/answer.
Question : Does comcast make money selling VoIP services to it's customers?
Answer: Yes
Question : Does comcast make less money if people use a competing VoIP provider over comcasts lines?
Answer: Yes, Comcast has 'lost potential revenue' if someone signs up for Vonage in an area where comcast is selling VoIP services.
Question Is it in comcasts shareholders best interest to maximize the number of people who sign up for VoIP from comcast?
Answer: Yes
Question: Does the capability exist to degrade the quality of competitors VoIP service over comcasts networks? i.e. are there devices sold on the market that can cause VoIP to function 'less well'?
Answer: Yes. There are 3 major ones, but more are coming
Question: Will degrading the quality of a VoIP call of a competitor on Comcasts network result in people switching to Comcast VoIP?
Answer: To a degree, yes.
Question: Does comcast profit if Vonage and other VoIP providers go out of business?
Answer: Yes
Summary: Comcast benefits if Vonage(etc) go under. Comcast has the capabilities to degrade the quality of VoIP calls through Vonage. Comcast will increase revenue if people find that Vonage sucks. Comcast is in it to make money.
I challenge you to come up with a scenario where comcast DOESN'T cause problems with Vonage. Comcast has nothing to gain from Vonage working well, and tons to loose. As the corporate apologist say, Comcast is in it to MAKE MONEY, not to provide the best service, not to provide the best price. Thus, the logical conclusion is, sans regulations, that comcast will quietly (i.e. not advertise) use technical means to cause Vonage(etc) to suck, as it will increase their profits. Some middle level manager will run a spreadsheet, and decide the risk/expense ratio is worthwhile, and all the customers using Vonage(etc) will suffer because of that.
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Flabby? pastey-skinned? riddled with phlebitis? Then you've got a good Republican body! So compare your lives to mine, and then kill yourself. |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey | why so expensive ?
I dont understand why comcast is selling it so pricey. If they dropped it down to $35 a month, they would probably have every one on comcast. 50$ is way to much
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Vonage--No annual contract really means 13 month commitment. |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
 ·Charter Pipeline
1 edit | reply to john1290
Re: Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors
said by john1290 :You are so dumb. You sound like a 12 or 14 year old who thinks he knows way more than he does. Tell me, what happens after you dial a number to somebody on the other side of the country and your call leaves Comcast's "private network" or do you think that every number you dial terminates in Comcasts "private network"? Also, your comment about how they own the call from end-to-end is laughable. Do yourself a favor and go read up on, and FULLY understand, how VoIP works before saying stupid things like this. Or do you work for CC and are just here to spread FUD and herd the sheep over a cliff? Actually, you don't know what you're talking about. Cable VoIP services manage their phone's IP traffic either at the QoS level, or the frequency level. It either is given a high priority if it mixes with its other IP traffic, or it uses a totally different frequency to transmit the IP traffic.
Once it leaves the cable company's IP network, it is sent at the TDM or SONET level until it reaches the destination phone switch. From there, it may or may not terminate over an analog line.
The far-end part of the call is the least of your concerns. How the call starts is the crucial part. No third party service can ensure their traffic leaving their "adapter" will be sent better than "best effort". Even if they all set DSCP bits, if the ISP's access and core routers are not listening to it, tough luck. Hope you don't meet up with any congestion.
Cable companies do not compete with "Vonage". They compete with ILECs.
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:: my trivial ramblings :: |
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THXULTRA
@12.158.x.x | Its Comcraptic
I would never switch to thier phone service for that much. I can't believe people would pay so much when you can get a regular phone line from at&t for that and it will not go out everytime thier is a storm. |
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bpx
join:2003-01-25
Saint Augustine, FL
| $$$$$$$
I see no benefit in going with Comcast Digital Voice. They have been marketing the hell out of it lately but I dont think it is going to do any good. People are all about saving a few $$$ and becoming more technology minded, so I dont think that Comcast digital voice will last long. Not with some VOIP providers pushing unlimited calls for $20 and I am sure they cant compete with other international rates.
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Nice guys finish last. |
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Cjaiceman
Premium,MVM
join:2004-10-12
Parker, CO
·Comcast Workplace
·Comcast
| reply to DaveNJ
Re: why so expensive ?
quote:
I dont understand why comcast is selling it so pricey. If they dropped it down to $35 a month, they would probably have every one on comcast. 50$ is way to much
Agreed, if it was reasonable price I would switch, but for right now instead of going for an extra phoneline I put the $10 extra into my cell plan and got a buttload of minutes. Right now my cell is the only phone I have and I have been more than happy with it. I'm questioning if I even need to get VoIP..... or have a home phone ever again...
(I have cingular so I get the roll-over minutes, YAY! not to mention 5 out of 5 bars in my apartment.) |
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AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
·Comcast
| reply to G_Poobah
Re: Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors
said by G_Poobah :Question : Does comcast make less money if people use a competing VoIP provider over comcasts lines? Answer: Yes, Comcast has 'lost potential revenue' if someone signs up for Vonage in an area where comcast is selling VoIP services. Hey, isn't that the same logic that software makers use come up with insanely large losses to piracy numbers?
Oh and I don't agree with it in any case since they are competing on features rather than price, so in effect they are saying that they don't care about the cheaper end of the market.
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"When you're an Anvil, hold you still;When you're a Hammer, strike your Fill." -- Benjamin Franklin |
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votum76
join:2002-01-29
Matawan, NJ
·Optimum Online
| other voip services
most of these posts relating to comcast deprioriting voip calls from other providers are pure speculation, for some real facts I have comcast in NJ I use packet8 $20 as my only phone line, well I have a cell but no other landlines,
When I didn't have any traffic on the network my connection was perfect the only issue's I've ever had was while downloading uploading alot of traffic from my computer and I was able to fix that issue with the Hawking HBB1 device which will prioritize your outgoing voip,games,ssh etc ( time-sensitive apps ) since then 0 problems with the phone service. It seems most issues with other providers are due to the lack of priority on packets leaving your cable modem, which tends to have long queues to handle the difference between the link speed of your ethernet card and the small upload cap of your cable modem. sure the device costs $50 but I save $30 a month over comcast's overpriced phone service. |
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