 dl0711
join:2004-06-27
London, ON | News poster kind of late this news poster is kind of almost late don't ya think? less then 24 hrs till the deal is over. | |
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 |  braynesPremium
join:2005-03-14
Waterville, ME | Re: News poster kind of late I guess I am late it is about 8:45 on the 8th and it tells me 25 bucks.
Bruce | |
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 NY TelPremium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
kudos:3
 ·AT&T CallVantage
| I'm Not buying into it My New York upbringing tells me this spells trouble for anyone who uses this and openly violates their ISP's TOS.
I'm not that desperate for connectivity that I am willing to open up my access point to "other members and possible copyright infringers, and possible terrorists"....
Just not worth it. | |
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|  koamPink PeckerPremium
join:2000-08-16
East Puddle
 ·Shoreham Telephone
| Re: I'm Not buying into it I live in a neighborhood with houses that are pretty far apart, so using the neighbor's wireless isn't of much value unless you go outside -- and everyone has their own broadband already. (not to mention that I already have 5 wireless routers)...
Even if no one really used my open channel, wouldn't Verizon FIOS object just on principal? Could they figure out that I had it? And what's to stop me from selling the thing on eBay after I've used it for a while?
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»kdanieli.com
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Hi Sal, you nice. | |
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| | Not me I almost bought one, but I already have a router with DD-WRT installed acting as a public hotspot. I'll let someone else take advantage of this deal. | |
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|  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5
 ·Frontier FiOS
| Re: Not me said by rbrugman:I almost bought one, but I already have a router with DD-WRT installed acting as a public hotspot. I'll let someone else take advantage of this deal. I beleive the FON firmware is based off of DD-WRT anyways.
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Quis custodiet custodes ipsos? | |
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 knightmbEverybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN | Payment page needs English version I tried to get one, but the final payment page is in Spanish (doh!), so I'm having to pull out the translator for this one, LOL. | |
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| knightmbEverybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN | Re: Payment page needs English version Well update to this, after I figured out where to put the paypal login, it then switches it back over to English (thank goodness). What's funny is I already had a stray dollar sitting in the paypal account, so I figure $1 router, not too bad if things don't work out, hehe. | |
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| | Abuse What's stopping people from flashing their routers with DD-WRT and just using it as their own personal router? There's no guarantee that users will participate in the Fon network. | |
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| | | Re: Abuse said by andrewhaji:What's stopping people from flashing their routers with DD-WRT and just using it as their own personal router? There's no guarantee that users will participate in the Fon network. There is a $45 charge if the router is not on the network in 30 days.
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Bring back chicken and potato chips - Vote Perot! | |
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| | | | Re: Abuse said by achuchma:said by andrewhaji:What's stopping people from flashing their routers with DD-WRT and just using it as their own personal router? There's no guarantee that users will participate in the Fon network. There is a $45 charge if the router is not on the network in 30 days. And how do they check out compliance?? Send someone to every shipped router location to see if it is open and available?
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Join Red Room Forum
BLOG tkjunkmail.blogspot.com
My Web Page | |
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| | | | | Re: Abuse said by fAcEtIOUs:And how do they check out compliance?? Send someone to every shipped router location to see if it is open and available? From what I gather on their site, it seems like the router "phones home" to FON.
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Bring back chicken and potato chips - Vote Perot! | |
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| | | |  insomxPremium
join:2003-01-26
Canada | Re: Abuse said by achuchma:said by fAcEtIOUs:And how do they check out compliance?? Send someone to every shipped router location to see if it is open and available? From what I gather on their site, it seems like the router "phones home" to FON. Figure out how it does it and put that on your PC, the flash the router.
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»monctonhigh.ca
"What is wrong with all the people that say what is wrong with people?" | |
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| | | | insomxPremium
join:2003-01-26
Canada | said by achuchma:said by fAcEtIOUs:And how do they check out compliance?? Send someone to every shipped router location to see if it is open and available? From what I gather on their site, it seems like the router "phones home" to FON. How long do you have to keep this going for? What about if next month I can't pay my internet and have to cancel? What will FON do?
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»monctonhigh.ca
"What is wrong with all the people that say what is wrong with people?" | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Abuse said by insomx:How long do you have to keep this going for? What about if next month I can't pay my internet and have to cancel? What will FON do? I didn't get that far into the FAQ.
I am interested in it, but three things that are stopping me:
1) The abuse issue...
2) The fact that I really live in the middle of no where. I would probably get more hits from a lemonade stand.
3) I really think it would be in bad taste to resell my Verizon DSL. Not only because it is against the TOS, but I'm also an employee. I don't think my employer would look too kindly upon that. 
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Bring back chicken and potato chips - Vote Perot! | |
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| | | | | | insomxPremium
join:2003-01-26
Canada | Re: Abuse Ya.
I'm not worried about my TOS, it isn't like they are going to find out.
I am wondering about the abuse too. What about if the router malfunctions? Am I doing to get charged 45 bucks?
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»monctonhigh.ca
"What is wrong with all the people that say what is wrong with people?" | |
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| | | | | | |  LilYodaFeline with squirel personality disorderPremium
join:2004-09-02
Mountains | Re: Abuse said by insomx:I'm not worried about my TOS, it isn't like they are going to find out. If, as another poster suggested the FON router does indeed 'phone home' to confirm it's been setup within 30 days, then I can bet ISPs can put an Access-List on their routers to either:
- block it
- log it, and send you a nice letter saying "you're in breach of your TOS, you are now being upgraded to our business package"...
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"the two most abundant things in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity." (Harlan Ellison) | |
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| | | | | | The routers just use a custom version of OpenWRT or DD-WRT with the correct FON Chilispot settings. They can tell if it's online or not by if your router is actively connected to FON's Radius server. | |
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| | knightmbEverybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN | said by achuchma:said by andrewhaji:What's stopping people from flashing their routers with DD-WRT and just using it as their own personal router? There's no guarantee that users will participate in the Fon network. There is a $45 charge if the router is not on the network in 30 days. That's why you pay through paypal, at least that can't charge you again. Funny thing, it takes 3 to 6 weeks to ship the router so how do they hold up the 30 days thing I wonder?  | |
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| | My favorite part of the FON FAQ... Am I responsible if a user uses my connection for illicit activities?
No. As long as you have not actively participated in the commission of a crime or do not have knowledge that a particular individual is using your connection to commit a crime or illegal activity, it is our understanding that you are not responsible. Nevertheless, this may vary depending on the laws of each country. Furthermore, FON discourages any inappropriate use of your connection by making sure that each user of the FON Community has registered and is identifiable. I wonder if they realize that they are pretty much giving out legal advice. I wonder how long it will take for a lawsuit to pop up here...
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Bring back chicken and potato chips - Vote Perot! | |
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| | | Re: My favorite part of the FON FAQ... right.. that will go well with the local law enforcement, fbi, ect..
I guess since FON "discourages any inappropriate" use, everyone will abide by their rules. That's really reassuring since registered users are identifiable. Here's my FON identifiable info..
Steve Jackass
123 YoMamasHouse
Chicago, IL 60640
Estados Unidos
(123) 456 789
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| | | | Re: My favorite part of the FON FAQ... How much do i get payed if i set this up. | |
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| | | NY TelPremium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
kudos:3 | Re: My favorite part of the FON FAQ... said by Momey :
How much do i get payed if i set this up.
No money but you get payed in "TIME'.
If you get caught, you wind up doing time.... | |
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| | insomxPremium
join:2003-01-26
Canada | said by steve19726:right.. that will go well with the local law enforcement, fbi, ect.. I guess since FON "discourages any inappropriate" use, everyone will abide by their rules. That's really reassuring since registered users are identifiable. Here's my FON identifiable info.. Steve Jackass 123 YoMamasHouse Chicago, IL 60640 Estados Unidos (123) 456 789 And you think your router is gonna get to you?
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»monctonhigh.ca
"What is wrong with all the people that say what is wrong with people?" | |
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| knightmbEverybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN | said by achuchma:I wonder if they realize that they are pretty much giving out legal advice. I wonder how long it will take for a lawsuit to pop up here... Well I guess anything could be taken as legal advice be it valid or not. I'm sure we can come up with a ton of examples.
-- My neighbors hooks a hose pipe to mine and uses the water to drown people at night when I'm sleeping, should I go to jail with them?
-- My neighbors uses my outside electrical outlet to kill people at night when I'm sleeping, should I go to jail with them?
-- A serial killer was using front yard to meet his victims at night when I'm sleeping before taking them away and commiting murder, am I also responsible for this?
I think unless you can actually prove that the person some how knew what was going on, any situation that turns out bad can be blamed on anyone else that is connected in any way. That would be a bad thing  | |
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| |  n1zukBreak out the checkbookPremium
join:2001-10-24
Malta
kudos:2 | Re: My favorite part of the FON FAQ... Unlike your water faucet or your power receptical, you OFFERED your wireless Internet connection for others to use...
You need a better analogy...
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New to Forum Life? Click here and learn. | |
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| | |  Speedy8Premium
join:2002-08-22
Alliance, OH
1 edit | Re: My favorite part of the FON FAQ... said by n1zuk:Unlike your water faucet or your power receptical, you OFFERED your wireless Internet connection for others to use... You need a better analogy... So if you let someone use your water hose and they kill someone with it without your knowledge you are responsible too? I think his analogy is pretty accurate. Just because you let someone use something that isn't innately made for illegal activity and they use it for something illegal doesn't make you just as responsible. | |
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| | | | n1zukBreak out the checkbookPremium
join:2001-10-24
Malta
kudos:2 | Re: My favorite part of the FON FAQ... Maybe. If you knew they had the potential to kill someone with it, that they possibly had the intent to use it in that manner, then yes, charges could be filled for you being an accessory to the crime.
The fact we are discussing it here shows both the potential and the possibility that an open, offered Wifi connection could be used for illegal activity.
Even if the chances of criminal or civil charges are only a remote possibility, why chance it? What is the return to you to open your Internet connection? Is it worthy of the risk involved?
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New to Forum Life? Click here and learn. | |
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| | | | |  damonlabPremium
join:2001-05-02
Detroit, MI | Re: My favorite part of the FON FAQ... Most analogies suck, this one included.
If somebody uses this connection to commit a crime, you are not liable. This works the same way that your ISP is not liable if you use their connection to commit a crime. You are the ISP in this type of setup. | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: My favorite part of the FON FAQ... Except ISPs keep records of customers being businesses. You are not a business and hense are not subject to the same rules. However, I think the idea that you can't offer your hotspot for free without fearing criminal charges is assinine. | |
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| | jpark
join:2005-02-05
Jackson, TN | Unfortunately, in today's America, what is legal or illegal activity depends on the prosecutor, judge, and whatever news 'expose' is currently playing on TV. Right and wrong are no longer important -- PR (votes) are important, and of course, money.
Any discussion of legality should recognize that laws in America are as fluid as supercooled helium.
That said, I think it is good to share your internet bandwidth if you can and if you take certain precautions against becoming a spam site, etc. You paid for a certain bandwidth and doubtless are not using all the bandwidth you paid for. | |
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| | | knightmbEverybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN | Re: My favorite part of the FON FAQ... said by jpark:Unfortunately, in today's America, what is legal or illegal activity depends on the prosecutor, judge, and whatever news 'expose' is currently playing on TV. Right and wrong are no longer important -- PR (votes) are important, and of course, money. Any discussion of legality should recognize that laws in America are as fluid as supercooled helium. That said, I think it is good to share your internet bandwidth if you can and if you take certain precautions against becoming a spam site, etc. You paid for a certain bandwidth and doubtless are not using all the bandwidth you paid for. Yeah, first on the list, blocking "outbound" port 25 connections to prevent SPAM e-mail. Which as I write this I laugh because I use to bash Bellsouth in the past for blocking port 25, what have I become! 
Traffic shaping of course, limited bandwidth and lowest priority on my network so as not to disrupt the business. Heck if it's going to be free, sure not going give everyone the full 3 Mbps download and 1.5 Mbps upload. Maybe 1 Mbps download and 128 Kbps upload so you can check e-mail, web surf, instant message, etc. without too much fuss. I can traffic shape within traffic shaping so the P2P connections are lower priority than everything else going through the unit so people can file share if they like but won't kill others trying to get free Internet.
I'm going to assign a spare WAN IP address to the unit so if anything bad does happen (spam blacklist or whatever), it's only one IP address to worry about, stays away from the business and personal network stuff. | |
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| | NY TelPremium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
kudos:3 | I think you need to move to another neighborhood. Your neighbors are mean.  | |
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|  CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | said by achuchma:Am I responsible if a user uses my connection for illicit activities?
No. As long as you have not actively participated in the commission of a crime or do not have knowledge that a particular individual is using your connection to commit a crime or illegal activity, it is our understanding that you are not responsible. Nevertheless, this may vary depending on the laws of each country. Furthermore, FON discourages any inappropriate use of your connection by making sure that each user of the FON Community has registered and is identifiable. I wonder if they realize that they are pretty much giving out legal advice. I wonder how long it will take for a lawsuit to pop up here... As I have said before, it's your router, your ISP, if something happens, guess who they are coming to? You, not the person using your router and connection. Also, it's their understanding that you are not responsible, that to me, raised a red flag as it should ANYONE who reads that FAQ. | |
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| | Trouble on the FON-tanic can anybody says cash burn are negative cash flow? Giving away routers will just make things worst. | |
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| | Encrypted site I went halfway through the process and noticed the page was not secure. Is it safe to finish the process unsecured? | |
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| Speedy8Premium
join:2002-08-22
Alliance, OH | Re: Encrypted site I actually clicked the request invoice for the hell of it to see what it'd say, and it asks for your SSN. I was like uh.. no. So I just used paypal. | |
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| | secure Its secure, its »:/ | |
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| | | Re: secure I guess the new member registration is not secure, the actual purchase process was though. | |
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|  John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:3 | It's a SECURE phishing site...
Can't be too careful these days!
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A is A | |
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| |  The BeerI Love It When A Plan Comes TogetherPremium
join:2001-07-24
Atlantic, IA | Re: secure Not too worried, they got a whole $1 from paypal, how in the heck are they going to ding me for the $49, send me a invoice? | |
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| | | | | i am kind of interested, so i am not going to be charged $49 in case anything happened to my internet service? i am talking about paying thru paypal of course | |
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 wesmPremium
join:1999-07-29
Redmond, WA |  Bought one anyway
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Opinions expressed here are mine and not my employer's. This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. | |
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|  KoolMoeAw ManPremium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD | Re: Bought one anyway Echo all that - same here. | |
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| | A few thoughts A few things occur to me on this.
First, you could order the router, connect it up so it can phone home, then block its wireless capability by covering the antenna with a material that would kill the signal. Then, you could wait for you commitment to run out (whenever that is) or for Fon to implode, which I have to think will be soon.
Second, why would anyone want to participate in this anyway? To get wireless when you're out and about? There's unsecured wireless all over the area where I live. To get paid? Again, there's free wireless all over. Why should someone want to use my Fon hotspot? And is the small amount of money I might get worth getting my connection yanked?
Finally, I don't like the idea of my router phoning home, not unless I know what it's talking about when it does. And what will happen to the data Fon has when they go belly up? | |
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| insomxPremium
join:2003-01-26
Canada | Re: A few thoughts Does anyone think this is a safe deal to get into? I will pay with paypal, but they can still send a bill your paypal account.
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»monctonhigh.ca
"What is wrong with all the people that say what is wrong with people?" | |
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| | | | Re: A few thoughts I wouldn't do it. Look at it this way. If this is a legally-enforceable agreement, which I think it would be, the fact that you're paying with PayPal means nothing. They can still demand payment.
As an example, suppose you signed up with a cell phone carrier with a prepaid credit card that only had enough money on it to get the phone and activate service. If you don't follow the terms of the deal, the fact that you can't be charged anything else on that card doesn't matter. You still owe the company, and they can still collect from you.
Also, and this is a totally different thing, look at the router description. It comes with a European electrical adapter. So, if you're in the U.S., you still have to buy an AC adapter. This means spending more money. With the deals you can often get on a new router with a warranty and without the Fon firmware, this is even less of a deal. | |
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 Anonymous_AnonymousPremium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2 | heres the catch A surcharge of $/€ 49 shall be applied to all routers that are not registered with FON within one month of their purchase). We will notify you 15 days in advance of said charge. | |
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| | | Re: heres the catch wow! u can actually check for your nearest FON hotspot!
.. »us.maps.fon.com | |
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 PersonaPremium
join:2004-07-07
Gravenhurst, ON | This doesn't sit well with me! This is so typical of the tech evolution.
A grassroots movement that gets noticed and seized upon and then comercialized.
So we all noticed the one dollar router and immediately start thinking about how we can hack the firmware to get past FON.
Personally, I would rather pay $50 for a wireless and offer it up to those who know it's there. Rather than participate in this, "Global Network", where the admins have $$ signs in their eyes. | |
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 EpikosSurpass The Usual Or OrdinaryPremium
join:2003-07-27
Portland, OR | Deal Over? Looks like the deal is over now. Page says it wants $25 USD for the "social router" and another $8 USD for shipping. 33 bucks isn't worth it anymore.
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I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person! | |
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