cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Follow the money...
"...BellSouth's abuse department was "keenly focused on customer satisfaction."
Um yeah. What they fail to tell you is the line about "generating traffic". When you learn that traffic is money, and they don't care what traffic, then its money. Your ISP gets a rate based on flow. Now, flow ebbs in and out. But let's say your rate is based on a large number of traffic. Well, what happens when that traffic is stopped to a trickle?
You pay more.
So it actually pays to have spam, bots, phishing...as it means traffic. Who cares if the users gets it, as its not attacking the ISP's end. Now, if bots were shutting down routers, and switches and servers...watch how quickly it cleans up.
Someone told me this once when I asked them to just shutdown specific traffic. Nope, was his answer. |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| People need to take security more seriously
Thing is, most users don't know they're host to this garbage. Most of them aren't running firewalls, or virus software.
It's obvious that a firewall is a mandatory item in any broadband users bag of tools/toys. Broadband providers should be making firewall usage mandatory at this point. A decent router with a built in firewall is the cheapest investment in computer security a broadband user can make. |
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izy
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Naples, FL
| I'd have to disagree. ISP's cannot "force" users to run anything on their computers. The can "advise" but not "force"
It is however an ISP's responsibility to prevent network abuse on THEIR networks, such as a hosted phishing site.
What does it take a whole 5 minutes for an ISP's tech to knock a phished system off their network???
It's innevitable that a phishing site will pop-up on ANY ISP's network, it's the speediness of the ISP to respond to such reports of these sites and knock them offline ASAP. It would be interesting if justin  could create some statistics on response times per ISP when it comes to fixing these problems. The data is all there in »/phishtrack  |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| reply to cableties
Re: Follow the money...
Abuse departments are nothing but cost centers at all the ISPs. They bring in no money and annoy customers who they come in contact with. Therefore, they have small budgets and small staffs and most of their time is spent dealing with DMCA takedown requests.
Result: they spend virtually no time at all on zombie PCs on their network. And don't look for that to change anytime soon. Only if class action lawsuits are filed against the ISPs over this practice by lawyers representing customers whose identities have been stolen will this ever change.
--
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Join Red Room Forum
BLOG tkjunkmail.blogspot.com
My Web Page |
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Insder
There never was a second I in my name
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Salem, MA
| reply to izy
Re: People need to take security more seriously
Trust me, I've been getting better response times from Asian providers and european providers than from the US. A US provider, Paetec, had a phish come up and back down three times before they finally stopped letting the customer handle it, while Belgicom of Belgium took the site offline within a day and emailed me back telling me it's taken care of. It's insane how bad US support is, it's like nobody cares. Even HiNet of China sends me better responses than most US ISPs.
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The one, the only, the Insder. :: Fighting phishing for life. |
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raccettura
join:2002-09-28
USA
| reply to N3OGH
said by N3OGH :Thing is, most users don't know they're host to this garbage. Most of them aren't running firewalls, or virus software. It's obvious that a firewall is a mandatory item in any broadband users bag of tools/toys. Broadband providers should be making firewall usage mandatory at this point. A decent router with a built in firewall is the cheapest investment in computer security a broadband user can make. At this point, most know but don't care... it's cheaper and easier to not care, and every so often ask a friend to help fix it (or make a family member feel obligated).
The *only* way you'll fix this problem is if there are stiff fines for offenses... If your computer is hijacked, it will cost you $100/offense. Until then, nothing will happen, because nobody cares.
Right now there's no real consequences, hence nobody cares. |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Follow the money...
Maybe the ISPs could funnel the misspent bribe lobbyist funding into the abuse department (in addtion to actually funding other much-needed things).
....nah. |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to izy
Re: People need to take security more seriously
said by izy :I'd have to disagree. ISP's cannot "force" users to run anything on their computers. The can "advise" but not "force"... Why not? It's their network, you abide by their terms. Have you read your TOS lately? My ISP Verizon has some pretty heavy handed language in it.
Example:
"Verizon may terminate the Service upon notice to you for any reason."
And the acceptable use policy specifically states:
Verizon reserves the right to deny Service to you, or immediately to terminate your Service for material breach, if your use of the Service or your use of an alias or the aliases of additional users on your account, whether explicitly or implicitly, and in the sole discretion of Verizon: (a) is obscene, indecent, pornographic, sadistic, cruel or racist in nature, or of a sexually explicit or graphic nature; (b) espouses, promotes or incites bigotry, hatred or racism; (c) might be legally actionable for any reason, (d) is objectionable for any reason, or (e) in any manner violates the terms of this Acceptable Use Policy."
So, you're going to tell me that an ISP that states in their TOS that they can terminate my service for downloading the latest "girls gone wild" video, or looking at porno pictures can't tell me I have to use a firewall?? |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
4 edits | reply to raccettura
We believe in Customer Service
AT&T's Abuse Department |
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removed
Crisis Management Squad
Premium,VIP
join:2002-02-08
Houston, TX
clubs:
| said by Transmaster :At AT&T BellSouth we believe in Abuse mitigation and we staff our Abuse department 24/7. Our abuse team numbers in the thousands and our staff of trained cockroaches are waiting to help you. BellSouth is more like it. AT&T has gotten things done fairly quickly (well, much less than 40 days!) in most of our cases...
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irc.removed.us - #dslr | DSLR Phishtracker | Morning Glory Comics | Email: removed@dslr.net | Phone: 718-606-4100 |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | point taken changed it to Big Telco  |
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anonposter
@optonline.net
 from:
catseyenu
| instant disconnect
If a computer is infected it should be removed from the network until fixed. {period} |
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nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL | Where is the department of homeland insecurity?
Why doesn't DHS take the problem of bot networks more seriously? |
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nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL | reply to anonposter
Re: instant disconnect
If an ISP does not act responsibly, maybe the entire ISP should be removed from the network.
That would get their attention. |
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mr_slick
join:2003-05-22
Lynnwood, WA | More money than drug trade?
I find it hard to believe that Internet fraud has surpassed the drug trade in revenue, but of course I could be wrong. |
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catseyenu
Ack Pfft
Premium
join:2001-11-17
Fix East
| Not All US ISP's Are Created Equal
As a member of the BBR Phish Team I can attest that we've had dismal response from some US ISPs.
What stands out in stark contrast is the response from Cox.
As a Cox customer for over 6 years I can attest that they really get it and do an exceptional job taking swift and decisive action against anything that threatens their customer or network integrity.
When it come to pointing my family, neighbors or business associates to a provider I'm comfortable they're in good hands with Cox.
The other ISPs could learn something from their example. |
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Wyattx17
Wyatt
Premium
join:2004-04-21
Stockton, CA
2 edits | Bot
»video.google.com/videoplay?docid···56570908
lol
»video.google.com/videoplay?docid···25496919 English Subs.
I know it's off topic, but this made me think of this. |
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| reply to cableties
Re: Follow the money...
So let me see if I have this right....
You are saying ISP's are paid by the amount of traffic they generate with their customers?
Maybe I am stupid, but I always thought ISP's purchased traffic either straight up (T1, all customers share) or through a dynamic pool (T3 capabilities, but only charged as needed). Either way the more traffic on their network the more they have to pay or the more issues their customers have fighting for bandwidth.
Doesn't seem to hold your conspiracy theory together very well. |
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anonpisser
@optonline.net | reply to nwrickert
Re: instant disconnect
you've got my vote |
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roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| reply to cableties
Re: Follow the money...
said by cableties :Um yeah. What they fail to tell you is the line about "generating traffic". When you learn that traffic is money, and they don't care what traffic, then its money. Your ISP gets a rate based on flow. Now, flow ebbs in and out. But let's say your rate is based on a large number of traffic. Well, what happens when that traffic is stopped to a trickle? You pay more. You have it reversed -- the more traffic an ISP sends and receives, the more they pay. Settlement-free peering is usually where the "flow" model comes into play and muddies the waters a bit, but SFP is largely irrelevant for consumer-oriented providers in general and BellSouth in particular.
-SC
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"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend |
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