  EUSKill cancerPremium
join:2002-09-10
canada | Bound to happen At least they're more upfront about it. Insomuch as to cover their butts.... | |
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 |  tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | Re: Bound to happen Eh. Not so much on the latter. It's more important that they disclose that their customers have absolutely no privacy. That disclosure is a "good thing" even if the reason for said disclosure is extraordinarily disturbing. | |
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| | | | Re: Bound to happen You are on a the "Public Internet", just because you can get there while sitting on your sofa in your underwear doesn't mean you should assume privacy. | |
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| | | This is how facism takes a foothold. | |
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| | | | Re: Bound to happen Really?
Are you saying the Jews should have read Hitler's privacy policy? | |
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| | |  kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | Re: Bound to happen said by Shark_615:Really? Are you saying the Jews should have read Hitler's privacy policy? No, he's saying this is how fascism - of which first phase we have successfully reached when our government teamed up with corporations and corporate money - takes over slowly: stripping civil rights and liberties, first via Patriot Acts then it mirrors everywhere else, down to the corporate customer policies as well. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Bound to happen  | |
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1 edit | said by kamm:said by Shark_615:Really? Are you saying the Jews should have read Hitler's privacy policy? No, he's saying this is how fascism - of which first phase we have successfully reached when our government teamed up with corporations and corporate money - takes over slowly: stripping civil rights and liberties, first via Patriot Acts then it mirrors everywhere else, down to the corporate customer policies as well. Kamm, can you determine how far along into fascism we are? I only bolded a few for example that stand out.
A fascist government, with a right-wing capitalist bent, would accomplish the same thing. Particularly with a citizenry willing to compromise their rights for the sake of being provided "security".....
Correct.
Actually three of the several signs of any incoming fascism are 1. a continuous war (verbal or physical) against an enemy 2. more and more limiting personal freedom in return for "security" 3. close ties with the big corporations, in terms of laws (pro-corporate, anti-intividual laws in return of pro-government corporate support).
Ummm, wait a sec... don't we have all these three already? Gee...
1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.
4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.
5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.
6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses
7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.
9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice
11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.
14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.
Does any of this ring alarm bells? Of course not. After all, this is America, officially a democracy with the rule of law, a constitution, a free press, honest elections, and a well-informed public constantly being put on guard against evils. Historical comparisons like these are just exercises in verbal gymnastics. Maybe, maybe not
edited for clarity.
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| | | | | | | Re: Bound to happen I guess you can just as well mark the other points bold as well!
Points 1,2,4,5 certainly.. 5 and 11 also partially... considering outsourcing and illegal aliens, 10 is also a matter of discussion | |
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| | | | aj_f
join:2004-06-05
77058-1124 | said by kamm:said by Shark_615:Really? Are you saying the Jews should have read Hitler's privacy policy? No, he's saying this is how fascism - of which first phase we have successfully reached when our government teamed up with corporations and corporate money - takes over slowly: stripping civil rights and liberties, first via Patriot Acts then it mirrors everywhere else, down to the corporate customer policies as well. When they came for the Socialists, I did not act because I was not a Communist. And they came for the Gypsies I did not act...Peace activists...political enemies...Then, by time they came for me, there was no one left to act...
Anyone who thinks they are above the power grab going on in government right now is bound to get a surprise when it gets down to their own short-and-curleys. | |
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| | | | |  Netbum
join:2002-04-08
Oakley, CA | Re: Bound to happen When they came for the Socialists, I did not act because I was not a Communist. And they came for the Gypsies I did not act...Peace activists...political enemies...Then, by time they came for me, there was no one left.
Amen Brother | |
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|  rwhubertPremium
join:2002-07-26
Atlanta, GA | A disturbing quote, direct from the AT&T "Privacy Policy" FAQ:
YOUR TELEPHONE AND INTERNET USAGE RECORDS MAY BE PRIVATE TO YOU, BUT THESE RECORDS ARE STATISTICS THAT BELONG TO AT&T.
Can we perhaps rewrite the classic book "1984" to include this gem? Could Benito Mussolini have come up with something more chilling? I swear to god, this is pretty close to an exact quote. The Fascists are not coming to take over the USA, they are here now!
Robert in Atlanta | |
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| | | sbc and at&t what are theses computer really mean sbc stands for Scream Bitch Complain, and at&t stands for Always Track & Tell. See the way it is going now new AT&T customer of old sbc and old at&t are screaming and bitching and complaining and new at&t is Always Tracking and Telling the NSA. it's so easy no wonder way othera aren't do it oh wait they are because the nsa sayed they have to because of National Security Policy or as alot people known as the National S-H-I-T Policy. | |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | ... So, basically, if you value privacy at all, do not obtain service through AT&T. | |
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|  JigsawStardust We ArePremium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH | Re: ... said by tsu9:So, basically, if you value privacy at all, do not obtain service through AT&T. Bingo!They are sick...
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| | | | Re: ... I wonder if providing some sort of anonymous proxy service to AT&T customers will become a pretty enticing business model  | |
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| | | tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | Re: ... Further, I wonder if said anonymous proxy will be shut down for aiding and abetting "terrorists."
Remember kiddies, if the government can't see it, you must be hiding something worth looking at! | |
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| | | | | You are still going through their network to get to that proxy so you can still be tracked. | |
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| | | | | | Re: ... not as easily. you can encrypt and tunnel your connection through a vpn. use a revolving key and one of those RSA tokens that at&t itself uses when establishing intranet connections from outside. | |
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| | | Unfortunately, AT&T supplies the network for a lot of other parties as well. My ISP for example uses AT&T to route a lot of its traffic. | |
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| | tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | Re: ... I wonder if the thru traffic is guarded by your host ISP's policies. I know I certainly have never permitted AT&T a contract, so would that mean my monitored traffic via their backbone would be, what--under their terms or my ISP's?
Hrm. I'll have to poke around that one. | |
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 major marcoRes Firma Mitescere NescitPremium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA | Still Bringing Your World to the NSA This time with lawsuit proof impunity. But keep giving AT&T your business...they won't violate your rights, pinky swear promise! | |
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 extreme50Formerly TwoKDialupPremium
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI | Your World. Observed. "The changes also state AT&T will track viewing habits of Homezone and U-Verse users," Is this really necessary to catch terrorists?
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|  Grail KnightQui audet adipisciturPremium
join:2003-05-31
Valhalla
kudos:6
 ·Time Warner Cable
| Re: Your World. Observed. No it is really necessary to cover their assets and continue to do business without the government breathing down their necks.
As for catching terrorists you will have to ask the feds.
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Next time leave a name & we can discuss your issues. | |
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| fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | said by extreme50:"The changes also state AT&T will track viewing habits of Homezone and U-Verse users," Is this really necessary to catch terrorists? ABSOLUTELY NOT! You hit the nail on the head.
Here's the biggest problem I have with it... When a major corporation writes into their privacy policy that they are going to make it easier to deliver your private habbits to the Feds, it just goes to show you there is a very thin line, or lack there of, between corporations and the government..
I wonder if this was one of AT&T's back door deals where they will give the government all the access they need in trade for video franchise. Talk about sell outs... | |
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| | Grail KnightQui audet adipisciturPremium
join:2003-05-31
Valhalla
kudos:6 Reviews:
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| Re: Your World. Observed. Forget the terrorism angle for now. It is about money, avoiding lawsuits, and having the Feds on your side.
You will see more of this happening in the coming months IMO.
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Next time leave a name & we can discuss your issues. | |
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| | | | | Re: Your World. Observed. said by Grail Knight:Forget the terrorism angle for now. It is about money, avoiding lawsuits, and having the Feds on your side. You will see more of this happening in the coming months IMO. You are right. Many, if not all, ISPs will adopt similar policies in the near future. It protects them from successful lawsuits when complying with government orders. If you don't like it, they are saying sue the government and not us.
And as voters, if you don't like this, get your congresscritter to change the law.
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| | | | | | Re: Your World. Observed. The truth hurts... | |
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| | | | tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | And as voters, if you don't like this, get your congresscritter to change the law.
And, as Congresscritters, they will promptly totally ignore the Will of the People.
'might be cynical, but that's pretty much how things go these days, regardless of who is in office. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Your World. Observed. Not so much ignore the will of the people as redirect the attention of the people.
"Yes, this NSA spying thing is really bad an.... hey, look over there! Married gays burning the flag!!!!!"
The specific distraction will change based on the politician and his party, but the basic tactic remains the same.
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My Gallery | Jason's Toolbox | PCQandA.com | URateit.com | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: Your World. Observed. Since, when has gay marriage been a tool of distraction. Really...
It has been terrorism for the last 5 years... | |
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| | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Your World. Observed. said by grandpinaple:Since, when has gay marriage been a tool of distraction. Really... It has been terrorism for the last 5 years... EXCUSE ME?!
Where have you been? It was gay marriage which gave Bush just enough to win the 2004 election. The midterms are up and now gay marriage is back in the spotlight. You have to be living in a cave with Osama to not know that gay marriage is just one of the distractions out there.
1) Abortion
2) Attack on Religion
3) Gay Marriage
4) Flag Burning
5) War on Terror
There's just a few pages out of the Karl Rove play book,... only the American people are getting it finally. | |
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| | | | | | | | kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | Re: Your World. Observed. said by fiberguy:said by grandpinaple:Since, when has gay marriage been a tool of distraction. Really... It has been terrorism for the last 5 years... EXCUSE ME?! Where have you been? It was gay marriage which gave Bush just enough to win the 2004 election. The midterms are up and now gay marriage is back in the spotlight. You have to be living in a cave with Osama to not know that gay marriage is just one of the distractions out there. 1) Abortion 2) Attack on Religion 3) Gay Marriage 4) Flag Burning 5) War on Terror There's just a few pages out of the Karl Rove play book,... only the American people are getting it finally. Are they? | |
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| | | | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Your World. Observed. Are they? Not really... however, to save their own butts right now, they are "appearing" to turn against their own party puppets. (ie: bush, frist, scamtorum, etc.)
It's their way of saying "oh crap! I think this is going a little too far too fast"... As for the American public? We'll see this election if they truly "got it".. | |
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| | | | | | tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | Ignore? Distract? Wave their butts in the air?
Same outcome :P | |
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| | | | | markofmayhemI can haz competition?Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:4 | I can't agree more! No matter who I put in office, who I vote for, the "fight on terrorism" is taking front stage in the excuse to provide me with less freedoms than my father, who had less freedoms than his father, so on and so forth. While I'm not wearing tinfoil, nor do I believe it has gotten to the point that violations of freedom are occuring, I do NOT like the direction my country is heading. Every year more freedoms are exchanged for more protection. I don't like it. Yes, I would rather be blown up on a bus than to have my phone conversation listed to. | |
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| | | | | | JigsawStardust We ArePremium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH | Re: Your World. Observed. said by markofmayhem:I can't agree more! No matter who I put in office, who I vote for, the "fight on terrorism" is taking front stage in the excuse to provide me with less freedoms than my father, who had less freedoms than his father, so on and so forth. While I'm not wearing tinfoil, nor do I believe it has gotten to the point that violations of freedom are occuring, I do NOT like the direction my country is heading. Every year more freedoms are exchanged for more protection. I don't like it. Yes, I would rather be blown up on a bus than to have my phone conversation listed to. Fist off They(they won't)/We/ anyone needs to get Lobbying out of the Government.IMHO the seeds of fascism have been planted(and is slowly growing) and we need to pull that out from the root.This is America Land Of the Free and home of the Brave Not America Land of the Greed and Home of the Slave...
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| | | | | | | tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | Re: Your World. Observed. The likelihood of Congress disposing of things like lobbying is effectively nil. They aren't going to deny themselves free trips, meals, "gifts" and whatnot. | |
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| | | | | | | | JigsawStardust We ArePremium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH | Re: Your World. Observed. said by tsu9:The likelihood of Congress disposing of things like lobbying is effectively nil. They aren't going to deny themselves free trips, meals, "gifts" and whatnot. Then IMHO they need to go!!!!
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| | | | | | | | Yes, I would rather be blown up on a bus than to have my phone conversation listed to.
or most of the other things done to "save me". Personally, I find that prospect much less frightening than the lies and insane laws our current government is spreading. | |
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| | | | | | said by fAcEtIOUs: And as voters, if you don't like this, get your congresscritter to change the law. Yeah, I'm sure they'll get right on that, just as soon as they're done giving themselves pay raises. | |
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| | | | | | TOS's and EULA's are not THE law and are not the end all to any legal battle. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Your World. Observed. said by Skippy25:TOS's and EULA's are not THE law and are not the end all to any legal battle. As I said, it doesn't stop them from being sued. But it does make it much less likely those suing will win. And that is the point, isn't it. Making it much more costly to sue and less likely to win means that the class action lawyers will not take the case.
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| | | | | | | | Re: Your World. Observed. Until a specific TOS or EULA is upheld in a law of court then it has no more value then the piece of paper it was written on.
Besides you are giving blood suckers (lawyers) too much credit. They will do anything for a buck. | |
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| | |  avantareGo Tribe
join:2000-02-16
Warren, MI | said by Grail Knight:Forget the terrorism angle for now. It is about money, avoiding lawsuits, and having the Feds on your side. You will see more of this happening in the coming months IMO. You hit the nail on the head Grail Knight  .
Chuck
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See 10 replies to this post |
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| | |  BloodRosesAeolus, your daughter flies.Premium
join:2003-03-17
Louisville, KY | said by Grail Knight:You will see more of this happening in the coming months IMO. As times goes on, the more and more it seems like we're living in China.
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| | | | | | Re: Your World. Observed. No china has faster internet | |
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| | | extreme50Formerly TwoKDialupPremium
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI | said by Grail Knight:... You will see more of this happening in the coming months IMO.
Maybe they should put a hidden camera and a microphone in each customer's digital box so they can make sure Osama isn't hangin' out in your living room. 
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| | | | Grail KnightQui audet adipisciturPremium
join:2003-05-31
Valhalla
kudos:6 Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
| Re: Your World. Observed. How do you know hey have not already placed a camera and mic. in them and were just waiting for the word to activate?
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Next time leave a name & we can discuss your issues. | |
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| | | | | JigsawStardust We ArePremium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH | Re: Your World. Observed. said by Grail Knight:How do you know hey have not already placed a camera and mic. in them and were just waiting for the word to activate? Execute order 66!!!
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| | | | | | Grail KnightQui audet adipisciturPremium
join:2003-05-31
Valhalla
kudos:6 | Re: Your World. Observed. Done! | |
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| | | said by extreme50:"The changes also state AT&T will track viewing habits of Homezone and U-Verse users," Is this really necessary to catch terrorists? Jesus Christ! This is insane... and unnecessary.
Not to catch terrorist but to convict innocent people who have done nothing wrong. Ever heard of what you say can be used against you in the court of law? Well its the same thing except its one step further... It's to shut everyone up because we the people now gotta watch what we say whether we are joking or not.
Guess who is being terrorized now due to manufactured threats artificially created to scare the heck out of everyone. | |
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| kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | 
1984 |
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| | | said by extreme50:"The changes also state AT&T will track viewing habits of Homezone and U-Verse users," Is this really necessary to catch terrorists? This has absolutely nothing what so ever to do with catching terrorists.It is another tactic being employed in the governments all out Declaration of war upon America and its citizens...I double dog pinky swear it.
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| | Question... Just how are cable companies and dish providers prohibited from doing the same? This is the first I've ever heard of that.
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| | | Re: Question... said by bassthumpa:Just how are cable companies and dish providers prohibited from doing the same? This is the first I've ever heard of that. Because there is a very specific law on the books that prohibits them from sharing without a COURT order. It was the Cable Communications Policy Act of 1984.
»www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c···B9C1.DTL
The Cable Communications Policy Act of 1984 stipulates that cable and satellite companies can't collect or disclose information about customers' viewing habits.
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| | Zoder
join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL | Re: Question... Well the answer than is for the Senate Communications Committee to change the law to cover phone companies. It can easily be added to the telecommunications bill they are working on if they really wanted to. | |
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| |  Anonymous_AnonymousPremium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
1 edit | i glad to have adelphia cable
and i boycott att s#!t
by using skype to make my calls | |
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| | most websites do this anyway ebay know about all the kink porn you guys buy  but I think its good it might help get rid of some BS channels in areas where they are not needed | |
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 dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | Uh huh... Where are all the AT&T sympathizers? | |
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See 9 replies to this post |
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Reviews:
 ·AT&T Midwest
1 edit | At least they have the balls to tell the truth you think eBay newegg and others dont track what you buy come on All this is is a way for them to get what that regional market needs for instance I have comcast it has about 10 religious channels I dont need them maybe some southerner wants them but I dont same with the logo and bravo(gay) channels some people in SanFran or Atlanta might want those channels but I dont but in Texas or Red south will be pissed | |
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| major marcoRes Firma Mitescere NescitPremium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA | Re: At least they have the balls to tell the truth said by odreian615:you think eBay newegg and others dont track what you buy come on Ebay and Newegg are entirely optional services we all can live without. Utilities are not. Unless, of course, you suddenly develop psychic powers sufficient so that you no longer need to pick up a phone anymore. | |
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| | lvas
join:2001-05-17
Glen Carbon, IL | Re: At least they have the balls to tell the truth phone service has not changed under this "new" policy. whats new is that they will track & release if requested by the govt your video and browsing habits. last I heard video and browsing are not utitlies. | |
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| | | major marcoRes Firma Mitescere NescitPremium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
1 edit | Re: At least they have the balls to tell the truth said by lvas:phone service has not changed under this "new" policy. That's a really breathtaking analysis you've got there because for the past, oh, I dunno, say 75 years or however long the phone company has been in operation, I don't ever recall a time before when consumer records were arbitrarily handed over to any law enforcement agency by utilities or anyone else for that matter without a court warrant or judicial supervision of any kind.
You see, the United States has always had this little thing called the rule of law whereby it has been the policy not to treat citizens like criminals until proven innocent. That's what makes us different from say, China, for example. Or certain Middle Eastern countries where U.S. troops are currently fighting to bring our style "democracy" to them. But that's OK, you weren't using your Bill of Rights civil liberties anyway and you're not in a position of being deployed to Al-Anbar anytime soon. So no worries. Move along, nothing to see here.
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| | | | | | Re: At least they have the balls to tell the truth I really dont think people see the bigger picture AT&T is buying favors from various gov't agencies to benefit itself and screw the American people. My God how do these execs sleep at night........ Their being allowed to get out of the usf, their putting the old monopoly that was Southwestern Bell back together all with the simple task of turning over their customers private info over to the gov't, sweet deal for them cause most of the general public wont even blink. | |
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FisamoPremium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC | Read it yourself... Best to draw your own conclusions after reading it yourself. Here's the link: »www.att.com/privacy/policy/#3
One noteworthy section to me is this:
Customer Proprietary Network Information - In the normal course of providing telecommunications services to our customers, we collect and maintain certain customer proprietary network information, also known as "CPNI". Your CPNI includes the types of telecommunications services you currently purchase, how you use them and related billing information for those services. Your telephone number, name and address are not CPNI.
- Protecting the confidentiality of your CPNI is your right and our duty under federal law. We do not sell, trade or share your CPNI - including your calling records - with anyone outside of the AT&T family of companies or with anyone not authorized to represent us to offer our products or services, or to perform functions on our behalf except as may be required by law or authorized by you.
- As a general rule, we are permitted to use CPNI in our provision of telecommunications services you purchase, including billing and collections for those services. We are permitted to use or disclose CPNI to offer telecommunications services of the same type that you already purchase from us. We may also use or disclose your CPNI for legal or regulatory reasons such as a court order, to investigate fraud or to protect against the unlawful use of our telecommunications network and services and to protect other users.
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| JigsawStardust We ArePremium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH | Re: Read it yourself... But they did Share it.They shared all of our records to the NSA and were nailed doing so.IMHO its just spin after the fact.What they did would in my book would be treason and back in the day they would of been shot.
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»www.auralmoon.com/html/ Stimulating ears for 6 years | |
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| dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | said by Fisamo:Best to draw your own conclusions after reading it yourself. Here's the link: » www.att.com/privacy/policy/#3One noteworthy section to me is this: Customer Proprietary Network Information - In the normal course of providing telecommunications services to our customers, we collect and maintain certain customer proprietary network information, also known as "CPNI". Your CPNI includes the types of telecommunications services you currently purchase, how you use them and related billing information for those services. Your telephone number, name and address are not CPNI.
- Protecting the confidentiality of your CPNI is your right and our duty under federal law. We do not sell, trade or share your CPNI - including your calling records - with anyone outside of the AT&T family of companies or with anyone not authorized to represent us to offer our products or services, or to perform functions on our behalf except as may be required by law or authorized by you.
- As a general rule, we are permitted to use CPNI in our provision of telecommunications services you purchase, including billing and collections for those services. We are permitted to use or disclose CPNI to offer telecommunications services of the same type that you already purchase from us. We may also use or disclose your CPNI for legal or regulatory reasons such as a court order, to investigate fraud or to protect against the unlawful use of our telecommunications network and services and to protect other users.
In terms of telephone service/calling records, it doesn't sound like anything's changed, if I read that right... Re-read this news item... it's about Browsing habits!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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| | | | Re: Read it yourself... And viewing habits (a la U-Verse). If I get cuaght watching another episode of '24' they may call me a terrorist and I may disappear tomorrow, or tonight.
Thankfully, I do not watching that show--at least not on AT&T networks. | |
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| | | FisamoPremium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC | Re: Read it yourself... True, the viewing and browsing 'monitoring' issue is different. My bad. As for sharing of the telephone numbers called, etc., they obviously justify any sharing they've done (all their data?) under the 2nd bullet point referenced above. | |
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| | AT&T Department of Commie Affairs I really do not see what I watch on IPTV (ahem, U-Verse) should be of any concern to AT&T and any Commie government agency.
Big Comrade is now upon us. Hey, but like any forward-thinking cowsumer, there is always the nice route: leave AT&T for cable. AT&T would rather grab both their ankles, and have you do the same, then stand up for public rights.
What a cheeseball company. | |
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Anonymous_AnonymousPremium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2 | F&$$% att ATT can KiSS my shiny Medal ass | |
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| | | Re: F&$$% att said by Anonymous_:ATT can KiSS my shiny Medal ass lol, that's the spirit!!! | |
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Timmn
join:2000-04-23
Tinley Park, IL Reviews:
·AT&T Yahoo
·CYBERONIC INTERN..
| Frankly, it's not AT&T The law that should be changed is the law that says that the citizens of the U.S. do not own their personal data.
I should be able to control what companies do with my personal data, and if anybody wanted to use it, they should have to ask me.
Of course, enacting a law like that would put several companies out of business, cost several million (possibly billion) dollars, and we can't have that now, can we? | |
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|  TweakPremium
join:2002-06-08
Oklahoma City, OK
1 edit | Re: Frankly, it's not AT&T It is exactly AT&T. California has some of the strictest privacy and consumer protection laws. AT&T thumbing its nose at these laws and probably some how will buy its way out of getting in any trouble for it. | |
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 HiVoltPremium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:11
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
| Bah Why even bother having a privacy policy, when the user ends up having no rights at all. These big fat companies are allowed to do whatever they want with their customers, and their information.
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| Odie97
join:2006-04-19
Oak Creek, WI | National Cancellation Day News FLASH just in .... it is suggested that American consumers unite and initiate a "national cancellation day" ... lets all cancel services (all services) from any/all RBOC's ... over a 30 day period .... and just take a holiday .... God knows we could all use it. Stagger the cancellations over a thirty day period and then start to sign back up with "others," or maybe even the same provider when they all scramble to change prices and policies to suck us back in. The only reason they keep doing what they are doing is we keep buying their services and swallowing their "funky spunk" (an old a line from Sex in the City that I won't define)  )
If we all did this their stock would tumble, wall street would freak and the politicians would think that "oh my God" I could be next come re-election time. New campaign slogan for the America voter .. "Vote NO for any Incumbent ... replace every one of those bast**ds.
We would really see some sh*t fly then ... While I would hate to go without the services that I need and use everyday ... we all did it for many years ... remember when we were kids ... we went outside and played, had friends and used the mail.
I'm moving to another country ! | |
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| | durrrrr or maybe...and i'm just thinking out loud here....YOU COULD USE A PROXY??
durr | |
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Netbum
join:2002-04-08
Oakley, CA | Privacy Keep electing those idiots up there in Washington.
You get the government you deserve. | |
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| | |  Re: Privacy
said by Netbum:Keep electing those idiots up there in Washington. You get the government you deserve. Fool me once.. wuh?
Fool me twice.. huh? Fool me thrice... Cool...
If you're referring to mass stupidity you are correct. I don't see many inteligent people anymore... Most either tag along lemmings style or are too afraid to speak out. | |
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 onDvineDon't litter. Spay-neuter.Premium
join:2005-01-29
So. CA, USA
kudos:7 | There are 2 options, it seems: People can give up privacy or give up Internet use.
Comcast "revamped" the privacy policy and TOS similarly when they took over attbi's customers in 2003.
They set it up slick: if the first thing the customers did on the day of the transition (when comcast dropped their previously nice attitude) was go to comcast's site to see if they'd changed the TOS, etc., since the day before, by using their service to get there, you'd already agreed to the new terms, sight unseen.
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Every nation ridicules other nations, and all are right. ▪▪A. Schopenhauer | |
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| | | Re: There are 2 options, it seems: said by onDvine:People can give up privacy or give up Internet use. Comcast "revamped" the privacy policy and TOS similarly when they took over attbi's customers in 2003. They set it up slick: if the first thing the customers did on the day of the transition (when comcast dropped their previously nice attitude) was go to comcast's site to see if they'd changed the TOS, etc., since the day before, by using their service to get there, you'd already agreed to the new terms, sight unseen. That's pathetic. | |
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| | onDvineDon't litter. Spay-neuter.Premium
join:2005-01-29
So. CA, USA
kudos:7
1 edit | Re: There are 2 options, it seems: It was worse than pathetic. They installed tgcmd.exe and created folders with encrypted info about my system/bookmarked sites, etc., in places they didn't expect customers to look. The contents were ready for them to access at will.
I happened to notice how many files were created when their supposedly simple Transition Wizard did its thing. They'd made additional changes in the TOS giving themselves the right to install whatever they chose on MY computer without telling me.
They did EXACTLY what they'd stated (in very reassuring terms prior to the takeover date) they would NOT do.
We'd have cancelled service except the only other options were dial-up or SBC's DSL. When we'd tried to get the DSL with my husband's employee discount in 2000, the drama ended with the technician leaving our home literally running because he PRETENDED it was working after 4 hours of dicking around. He wanted to be in his truck before we had time to sit down and find out we still weren't connected to anything.
They didn't send anyone to follow up the next day or the day after that, so we got service from RoadRunner which became MediaOne, then AT&T Broadband Internet and finally comcast. An employee discount on something that didn't work was worthless.
Based on my mini-rant tonight, you can see that three years later I'm still angry and frustrated by the lack of any high-speed providers that aren't pond scum.
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Every nation ridicules other nations, and all are right. ▪▪A. Schopenhauer | |
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| | | awluck
join:2000-05-24
Duluth, GA | Re: There are 2 options, it seems: "tgcmd.exe and created folders with encrypted info about my system/bookmarked sites, etc., in places they didn't expect customers to look"
Is there a litany/FAQ of these type of practices? Could one be started in the Security forum? I had heard of some of these in passing, but my response has always been to NOT INSTALL any provider based software, purchase my own firewall, and generally use applications purchased at retail. Google "Do No Evil" anyone? Of course, most everything probably has a tracking component these days, but I see no need to make it easy for them. | |
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| | | | onDvineDon't litter. Spay-neuter.Premium
join:2005-01-29
So. CA, USA
kudos:7 | Re: There are 2 options, it seems: said by awluck:... I see no need to make it easy for them. comcast put tremendous pressure on attbi's customers to use the T-Wiz. If they'd pushed any more, we'd have found a technician at our door, ready to install it as a suppository.
At the time, I had a mentor who was a Global Moderator at Wilders. He began my education about computer security (better late than never) and ran the T-Wiz on his own machine before the date of the official transition, using a packet-sniffer, which is/was technology way over my head. He found nothing to indicate what was to come and had no reason to expect it because it would've been illegal to do such things in the Netherlands, where he lives.
After most of the garbage had been removed, there was one last piece of crap in there which opened a big window covering my desktop with their logo when I booted. It said I had no Internet connection and would not until I installed the T-Wiz which it sensed was no longer there. By then, I was wiser and closed the window using the X in the upper right corner. The Internet was still there; comcast just plain lied to intimidate whoever they could into doing it their way.
So we didn't install it like sheep without any advance investigation. The mistake was in believing a corporation of that size, providing what we considered to be a utility, would have some respect for their customers and/or the truth.
Each of us had to have an experience that taught us when not to trust, and I haven't believed a word from a for-profit corporation since.
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Every nation ridicules other nations, and all are right. ▪▪A. Schopenhauer | |
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