chemaupr
join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA | Wonder how many used then?
So if the doc is so bad??? How is that several vendors have been able to use it? What they want a M$ programer that can help the build their own software? |
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Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | They want a piece of M$'s cash cow. They don't want proper documentation, they just had to make a ridiculous demand that M$ would never comply with so they can start levying fees. |
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blow it out your
@adelphia.net
thumbs down from:
wriley 
| Please attempt to read (and understand) the linked story before bloviating uninformed rubbish. You can still freely agree with Microsoft, but at least know the facts of the case before tapping out your ... cough, hack, gag ... opinion.
It's no wonder this country is going into the toilet; can you even name the first year this affair began without GOING BACK and reading the article FIRST? I'd wager not. |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Ahrenl
said by Ahrenl :They want a piece of M$'s cash cow. They don't want proper documentation, they just had to make a ridiculous demand that M$ would never comply with so they can start levying fees. The European Union and Montgomery County, MD.
Two great extortionists who work great apart!
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Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy |
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chemaupr
join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA
2 edits | reply to blow it out your
Sure I can, I read about it almost weekly in zdent... sometimes you just want to hear other pepole opinions and not necesarly post yours... and by the way what is yours,,, if you have read anything yet!!! or should we give you more time? |
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BLOWmeBILLgates
@comcast.net
| MICROSUCKS = SCUM OF THE EARTH
Hopefully the EU will nail the criminals at MICROSUCKS to the wall but I doubt it. 2.5 BILLION Euro -- that's with a "B", per day fine is what MICROSUCKS deserves for their criminal activity. They've been convicted so there is no point in arguing, it's just a matter of how little they'll pay for their crimes. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| reply to chemaupr
Re: Wonder how many used then?
The continual rulings, some of which have been successfully appealed by MS to EU courts seems to be nothing but an attempt to penalize a successful company. And interpreting compliance to mean helping your competitors is pretty ridiculous IMHO. All the things MS supposedly did to exploit their desktop dominance have been ended. The steps being ordered now are nothing but attempts to drive MS out of business.
--
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Join Red Room Forum
BLOG tkjunkmail.blogspot.com
My Web Page |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by TKJunkMail :The steps being ordered now are nothing but attempts to drive MS out of business. Maybe its some sort of "coverture" from the EU to get Microsoft to buy them out 
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Tancredo 2008! |
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chemaupr
join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA
| reply to TKJunkMail
I agree... is so silly. Look at their request for a XP version with out the Media Player... they comply and the market response, we are not interested in that product.
This does nothing to benefit the consumers. They will end up paying the price monetary and probably may not receive the best product after all. |
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amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
2 edits | Non ...comPliance
sorry, had to point that out first; the subheading says noncomLiance
anyway, $2.5 million a day is absurd by any measure!
while I don't really agree that trade secrets should involve simple things like how to talk to the freaking thing (Windows...) and interoperate, the solution is obviously not to impose further fines 'per day' like this...
"Microsoft's documentation was written ``primarily to maximize volume while minimizing useful information,'' it said."
that's the best quote right there... I might actually believe that statement. |
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GigahertZ420
join:2001-10-02
Fairbanks, AK
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Wonder how many used then?
Microsoft has the worst documentation on interoperability of their products of any of the software vendors we work with.
They are a monopoly, they keep everything so close to the vest that programming for their platform often requires you to utilize un-documented or extremely poorly documented function calls with no idea whether they will function correctly when deployed widespread.
It's all just a conspiracy theory to undermine american influence, blah blah blah.
In your myopic world, any company that is large and american should get a free pass to do what they please, when they please, how they please... |
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GilbertMark
Premium
join:2001-05-02
Gilbert, AZ
·Cox HSI
| Oh goddie.
Aw fine them anyway, they deserve it. They'll never make up for all their past transgressions. Fine fine fine fine fine fine fine.
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Got a V3 or a V3i? Want to get the most out of them? Check out my sites »hacktheV3.com and »hacktheV3i.com
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JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
| They will never see a dime.
"The EU plans to fine the company up to 2 million euros ($2.55 million) a day -- backdated to Dec. 15 -- for not obeying an antitrust order from March 2004. The total financial penalty will be announced by EU Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes."
208 days x $2.55 = You can go to hell!
Sorry but this looks heavy handed.
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Bush Derangement Syndrome: the acute onset of paronia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency--nay-the very existence of George W. Bush.---
Charles Krauthammer |
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Desdinova
join:2003-01-26
Gaithersburg, MD
| reply to GigahertZ420
Re: Wonder how many used then?
"Microsoft has the worst documentation on interoperability of their products of any of the software vendors we work with."
So don't work with it. If there's a financial reason for you to continue working with MS-based products, that's your decision, just as it is to dump them and walk away. If you have a licensing agreement with MS where they're guaranteed to provide a product that maixmizes your profits without giving a percentage back, then you might have a valid claim.
If MS were to lose significant amounts of revenue because of their practices, then I suspect they'd change them. The fact that they're not, seems to suggest that most folks don't have a problem with them.
Am I a MS apologist? Not at all. I use them by default; for the work I do, Windows-based software and hardware is less expensive and more diversified than what's available on other platforms. I was a die-hard Amiga freak who finally gave up the ghost when I could no longer perform certain tasks that were easily available on a Windows-based platform. I certainly did NOT sue MS and try to force them to engineer their gear to integrate with my Amiga stuff. Using this same logic, I don't see the validity of the EU's claims. If so many countries have problems with MS, let 'em dump the system and go with something else.
"In your myopic world, any company that is large and american should get a free pass to do what they please, when they please, how they please..."
I don't feel that American products should be given a free pass, any more than many foreign companies are given a free pass here in the states. Look at the car industry for example, and all the modifications that are necessary or a foreign car to be U.S. compliant.
Personally, I'm a big fan of Mexican switchblades, French absinthe and Cuban cigars, but guess what? Because I live in the United States... |
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oldmike
join:2005-04-14
Latonia, KY
| I just have to respond...
Ya know, Microsoft might be better off not selling anything in the EU until the EU gets its' own act together. No sales, no support, nothing. Offer to buy back the existing (legitimate) software and then cut them off. Probably cheaper in the long run, and heck, it might even get the EU's heads out of their lower orifices.
The EU is faced with many of the same problems the USA is, compounded by the rampant nationalism that exists in every member of that "august" organization, and compounded again by the protectionism that is built into every individual members' economic system. To me, this smacks of distraction more than a legitimate grievance.
And, just for the record, I do not particularly like Microsoft's tactics either. I simply think the EU's reaction is way out of proportion to the actual "problem". |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| reply to Desdinova
Re: Wonder how many used then?
said by Desdinova :"Microsoft has the worst documentation on interoperability of their products of any of the software vendors we work with." So don't work with it. If there's a financial reason for you to continue working with MS-based products, that's your decision, just as it is to dump them and walk away. If you have a licensing agreement with MS where they're guaranteed to provide a product that maixmizes your profits without giving a percentage back, then you might have a valid claim. Perhaps he's simply a coder -- not a project manager or head of operations -- giving his opinion on the documentation from personal experience. Telling him not to work with it is koolaid-speak for 'get F'd; I don't like your opinion, love it or leave it'. Why not find a school yard and beat up a kid instead: that would have to feel better than carrying around what amounts to self-loathing inspired insipience.
Tolerance for differing viewpoints: look into it 
--
"I am not young enough to know everything."
Oscar Wilde |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| reply to chemaupr
said by chemaupr :Sure I can, I read about it almost weekly in zdent... sometimes you just want to hear other pepole opinions and not necesarly post yours... and by the way what is yours,,, if you have read anything yet!!! or should we give you more time? And this is after the edit.
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"I am not young enough to know everything."
Oscar Wilde |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| reply to TKJunkMail
I'll tell you one thing that's a given and offer another that's an opinion: any company as rich as microsoft didn't get there playing by the rules, and that's a fact. Furthermore, imagine -- if you're able -- what computing would be today if true competition had existed for the past fifteen years.
As for this ruling, it's steep and borders on egregious in amount, but I don't think the EU would levy such fines if the conditions of the original ruling were met within the agreed upon time frame. Just my opinion.
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"I am not young enough to know everything."
Oscar Wilde |
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lalalalalala
@pdf.com | reply to oldmike
Re: I just have to respond...
At least the EU is trying to do something about Microsoft monopoly abuses. We should thank them. They certainly seem to have more fangs than our poor DOJ... |
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Talis
join:2001-06-21
Houston, TX
| A bit much
I've been a Windows developer for years, and while Microsoft's documentation is never what you would call complete, it certainly isn't "fundamentally flawed in it's conception" nor has using their documentation ever been a "time-consuming and ultimately fruitless task." The fact that several vendors have actually used the documentation successfully should bear some weight as well.
Obviously there is some other agenda in play here. |
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