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Comments on news posted 2006-07-18 15:36:32: Utah's UTOPIA municipal fiber project is the largest in the country, serving more than a dozen cities with fiber, much to the dismay of incumbents Qwest and Comcast. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

1 edit

1 recommendation

Are people really shocked?

Lets review, as much as people dont want to believe it Utopia is a business. Business's exist to earn money. Freeloaders take away from potential earnings. Its funny how so many people proclaim that Utopia is the "darling" ISP and how everyone else should be like them, yet they do the same shit as the other telco's/ISP's! Ahhh, the irony is thick enough to cut with a knife.

EDIT: Summary for those who cant figure it out. For-profit business's exist to make $. They will ALL do whatever it takes to maximize profit while minimizing customer churn. No ISP that wishes to stay in business for very long will ever offer Joe User an uncapped, unlimited connection for $10 per month. If people really need a "better" connection spend some money and buy a business class product. /rant
--
!


bbenso1

join:2004-11-28
Baltimore, MD

1 recommendation

said by wifi4milez:

Its funny how so many people proclaim that Utopia is the "darling" ISP and how everyone else should be like them, yet they do the same shit as the other telco's/ISP's! Ahhh, the irony is thick enough to cut with a knife.
Except that you're missing one important point here - UTOPIA is not doing the throttling or capping. UTOPIA simply makes the network available, other ISPs actually offer the service and it is those other ISPs that are implementing caps and throttling.


netwire
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Shelby, NC
kudos:1

1 recommendation

:p

Only 100gig a month? OMG! What a crime! Such a low cap! [/sarcasm] Heck, 100gig a month that's nice, wish my FAP was like that. Anyone who complains about that for such a low price should be forced to live out here in the boondocks where only satellite is available.
--
Dell Inspiron 6000 (x2)



Agent_haito

join:2002-09-20
Winston Salem, NC
reply to wifi4milez

Re: Are people really shocked?

100 gigs a month is certainly a nice round number if had no choice in my ISP's cap usage...


WirelessMajr
Premium
join:2005-08-03
College Place, WA

Honestly

100GBs is very reasonable. I used to be of the opinion that I should be able to download whatever I wanted, but bandwidth just hasnt reached basement prices yet.

I mean honestly, if you're using 100GBs a month on a residental connection, then 95% of the time you ARE engaging in less than legal activity. HD quality streams arent THAT plentiful, and even streaming radio isnt that much.

Lets be generious and say a radio stream is 256kbps. 256kbps = 32Kbyte/s. 32*60sec*60min*24h*30d = 82944000KByte = just under 80GB. That's listening to a high quality audio stream 24/7. Hell, even my average bittorrent traffic averages only 20GB a month. Sad to say, but those of us who consume a good deal of bandwidth are just unprofitable customers for a business. The only way we get by is because our heavy usage is subsidized by low traffic users.

I'm not saying that I wouldnt complain too, but at some point in time, heavy users (myself included) have to face reality.


Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

1 recommendation

reply to bbenso1

Re: Are people really shocked?

It's the simple details he missed.


tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

what's that song?

ev-ery Ro-se has its thorn, just like every downloader sings a sad, sad song..



dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 recommendation

I'll take some!

100GB per month? Not a problem!
15/15 for $40 per month? Hell yeah!

Bring that shit this way!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to wifi4milez

Re: Are people really shocked?

Refresh my memory, was this a network that multiple companies could offer service on, or everything run by the local government?

Anyhow, the company or companies are in a competitive market, if one of them can remove the caps without losing money, then they'll get more business until the other guys fall in line. The point of Utopia is competition with 1.5Mbps DSL and Cable, and providing to places stuck on dialup. Small companies can implement these simplistic throttling schemes more quickly, probably just one VP being impressed by the throttling vendors. But eventually they will lose to someone who offers a better deal.

Most people will accept throttling if it lowers their bill, but nobody likes caps, so the market should come to some equilibrium as long as there are enough providers. Watch out though if the Utopia providers start consolidating, then they become just like the cable monopoly.



Anomus

@rr.com
reply to tmc8080

Re: what's that song?

Not me, I'm singin a happy song. Thru my 3 Cantenna connections, i'm pulling in over 30gigs a day. I'm filling 400gig drives almost faster than I can buy them. Seagate must really love me.



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

1 recommendation

reply to bbenso1

Re: Are people really shocked?

said by bbenso1:

said by wifi4milez:

Its funny how so many people proclaim that Utopia is the "darling" ISP and how everyone else should be like them, yet they do the same shit as the other telco's/ISP's! Ahhh, the irony is thick enough to cut with a knife.
Except that you're missing one important point here - UTOPIA is not doing the throttling or capping. UTOPIA simply makes the network available, other ISPs actually offer the service and it is those other ISPs that are implementing caps and throttling.
I am not missing the point. The OTHER business's that offer services on Utopia's network are (get ready).....also in the business of making money!! That means that THEY would have to pay extra for Joe User eating up the bandwidth that THEY paid for. Still not make sense to you guys?? Go re-read my edited first post for clarification.
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chemaupr

join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA
reply to Agent_haito

100 gigs is more than ANY Residential ISP caps TODAY for the price and speed.


Eric Martin

join:2005-06-19
66308

1 edit

The government should take it over.



I personally think it's stupid to allow businesses to monopolize voice/tv with fiber.

I think the government should own and run it. It was a historical mistake to allow private business to own cable networks. Zero competition.

I like the way the public utilities are run.



MTBikerChris
Premium
join:2001-08-28
Broomfield, CO
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to dadkins

Re: I'll take some!

Click for full size
Hell I would be ok with 100 gigs a month cap.I can see this month that i would hit about 70 or 80 gigs


diehardspeed
Premium
join:2003-05-14
Salt Lake City, UT

2 edits

I have Mstarmetro and haven't noticed any caps

I download PLENTY from newsgroups and have not seen any caps yet. I almost always get my full 15MB down too.

I don't do torrents though, so I couldn't tell ya if they are throttling that.

It's hard to keep your upload at the 15MB cap though I will admit, but at least you still get more than you do with any other provider.

Utopia rules!!

EDIT:
And BTW Mstarmetro does not offer 10/10 connections. There is only one plan other than the business plan and it is 15/15 symmetrical for $40 just like Xmission. Please get your facts strait! (And no.. there website is not the place to find the facts )

EDIT 2:
Thank you!



danawhitaker
Space...The Final Frontier
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Urbandale, IA
reply to WirelessMajr

Re: Honestly

That statistic works if you're the only person in your house. Fine. Take a household of three or four people. That breaks down to 25 gigs a month. Is that so reasonable? Just with my Xbox 360, I've done at least 8-10 gigs of transfer of game trailers and game demos in less than a month. That doesn't even hit on the game trailers and demos I download that aren't going directly to my Xbox, but instead are on my PC.

It's bad news for legitimate content producers like iTunes and other streaming media outfits. If I were going to get anything online, I'd probably get CNN Pipeline. I wonder how much that would eat up for about 15 hours a day running constantly.

I don't even really care so much at this point, because I've been saying since people started jumping up and down about Utopia that there were flaws, and that other countries do it much better (i.e. Sweden, where you can get 100mbit synchronous uncapped very cheap).

The only way I'd get this kind of service is if a) they weren't throttling ports and b) If they insisted on a cap, they had a max overcharge of around $30 like Sympatio does in Canada.

I shouldn't have to get a business-class connection to do things that the average residential user wants to be able to do. I'd gladly pay a higher price for an unlimited tier, if they'd offer one. Until they do, I'll gladly stick with my 1.5mbit DSL, because I can do what I want with that and run circles around the caps the Utopia ISPs throw into the mix.
--
You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around...



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to wifi4milez

Re: Are people really shocked?

said by wifi4milez:

EDIT: Summary for those who cant figure it out. For-profit business's exist to make $. They will ALL do whatever it takes to maximize profit while minimizing customer churn.
Imagine that. A business wants their revenues to exceed their costs and actually make a profit for the investors. Lock them up, I say, lock them up.
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Eric Martin

join:2005-06-19
66308
reply to diehardspeed

Re: I have Mstarmetro and haven't noticed any caps

Still not as a good as locally owned.

Your speeds will get cut down as excuses pile up about costs for the provider. Your seeing only glimpses of it now. You'll hear of phantom costs for new charges.

It's a monopoly. Monopoly given to one person always corrupts. ALWAYS!



dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
reply to Eric Martin

Re: The government should take it over.

said by Eric Martin:

I personally think it's stupid to allow businesses to monopolize voice/tv with fiber.

I think the government should own and run it. It was a historical mistake to allow private business to own cable networks. Zero competition.

I like the way the public utilities are run.
Say what? I have ONE choice for electricity/gas. PG&E.
Where is the competition in that?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


kontos
xyzzy

join:2001-10-04
West Henrietta, NY

The ISPs probably had problems collecting overage fees

I can remember doing the math when I first heard about Xmission offering 15/15 mbps connections via UTOPIA. Pricing started at $40/month, but if you exceeded the usage ceiling, the price could rise to over $6,000 per month (assuming you could manage to fill your pipe 24/7/30).

I'd bet the put the hard caps in after they had a hard time collecting on some overages.



pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Just a few ISPs or Utopia Itself Doing This?

From what i read in the article summary, it seems that only a few ISPs who use the Utopia network are allegedly throttling people and capping connections. However, the headline is implying that Utopia itself is doing this. If other ISPs which use the Utopia network are not doing this, then it is not fair to claim that Utopia is implementing throttling and/or capping.
--
Tancredo 2008!



RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2
reply to Eric Martin

Re: I have Mstarmetro and haven't noticed any caps

You do know that Utopia is government owned and run, right?

»www.utopianet.org/
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to chemaupr

Re: Are people really shocked?

said by chemaupr:

100 gigs is more than ANY Residential ISP caps TODAY for the price and speed.
Yet somehow people on this site still bitch and moan. It's almost comical, isnt it!
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!


RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1
reply to danawhitaker

Re: Honestly

said by danawhitaker:

That statistic works if you're the only person in your house. Fine. Take a household of three or four people. T........

I don't even really care so much at this point, because I've been saying since people started jumping up and down about Utopia that there were flaws, and that other countries do it much better (i.e. Sweden, where you can get 100mbit synchronous uncapped very cheap).

The only way I'd get this kind of service is if a) they weren't throttling ports and b) If they insisted on a cap, they had a max overcharge of around $30 like Sympatio does in Canada.

I shouldn't have to get a business-class connection to do things that the average residential user wants to be able to do. I'd gladly pay a higher price for an unlimited tier, if they'd offer one. Until they do, I'll gladly stick with my 1.5mbit DSL, because I can do what I want with that and run circles around the caps the Utopia ISPs throw into the mix.
Actually, the caps are not just on Utopia, but all the services for the ISPs I am familiar with. Not to say that there are not some that do not have caps, but I do not know about them. But if you have X number of people pumping max bits all day long on one cheap line (times a lot of lines), no provider will stay in service very long. Someone has to pay for that all the way down the pipe from you to the source. I like a decent provider who says up front what the limits are. If you can't handle it, then it lets you know to keep looking for another source, which it sounds like you are doing.

And Utopia is not a provider of services, they are a provider of a line that the incumbents were dragging their collective feet on for much of the area. What you do with that line depends on you and the actual service provider, thanks to Qwest buying a lawmaker (who is not even near the Utopia served area but all the way south) and making Utopia only a line and not a service.

Can't understand why you deserve business class service at peon rates. Maybe the airlines should let us all fly first class for the cost of steerage? Wonder how long they would be in business with the loss of more than half of the seating and back to paying for all that food and drink?
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.

Eric Martin

join:2005-06-19
66308
reply to dadkins

Re: The government should take it over.

If it's a real government owned business then there will not be some huge profit margin.



firephoto
We the people
Premium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA
reply to dadkins

said by dadkins:

said by Eric Martin:

I like the way the public utilities are run.
Say what? I have ONE choice for electricity/gas. PG&E.
Where is the competition in that?
I think he means public owned utilities, which is good because they're only commitment is to the customer and not to some sit on their ass and collect money types (investors). The anti municipality people are just ticked off because someone can run a cost effective network and private people don't get rich which in part is why these municipal networks are forced in some cases to only be allowed to offer end user services though third party private providers.
--
Location: +48° 5' 23.40", -119° 48' 30.00"

Eric Martin

join:2005-06-19
66308
reply to RadioDoc

Re: I have Mstarmetro and haven't noticed any caps

I hear it's not. Isn't an isp running it now.

Didn't they get sued ?



EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada

1 recommendation

Gimme!

15 up? 100gig cap?
I'd take it in a heartbeat.



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to pnh102

Re: Just a few ISPs or Utopia Itself Doing This?

said by pnh102:

From what i read in the article summary, it seems that only a few ISPs who use the Utopia network are allegedly throttling people and capping connections. However, the headline is implying that Utopia itself is doing this. If other ISPs which use the Utopia network are not doing this, then it is not fair to claim that Utopia is implementing throttling and/or capping.
Do you mean to imply that DSLR is printing misleading news articles??? You sir, must be firmly reprimanded for such onerous statements! That type of thing would NEVER happen here.......
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!


DSun1010
To Tired To Make Sense

join:2001-03-23
Boonton, NJ
reply to pnh102


Wait..caps?
Lol. Im almost sure thats wrong btw. I know im way over 100g this month but jeez.