jc100
join:2002-04-10
| Smart Judges STILL exist
Hail this judges decision. Companies cooperating with the government SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED to do so without a court order. I praise google for telling the Bush administration to Piss off. Some of these coward companies handing over the documents should be sued into oblivion and customers SHOULD NOT patronize them.
Att = SHIT LISTED.... NEVER USE THEM guys. |
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King P
Don't blame me. I voted for Ron Paul
Premium
join:2004-11-17
Franklin, TN
1 edit | I thought they settled...
I found a link to a completely unrelated story, that I thought was tied to this.
I'm glad that the judge didn't throw out the case.
*edit* removed link to OT story |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Different case... |
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King P
Don't blame me. I voted for Ron Paul
Premium
join:2004-11-17
Franklin, TN | thanks Karl. I thought I was having a brain fart for a second.
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notajudgement
@147.144.x.x
| reply to jc100
Re: Smart Judges STILL exist
It isn't necessarily a victory. Read the judgement, there CAN be evidence within the NSA and ATT that can be restricted from use in this case, if dicovery shows that. What this means is that, if in the process of discovery, there are items of secrecy that the government/judge deems to be a national threat, it can and will be withheld within this judgement.
Page 35 of 72. |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | quote:
It isn't necessarily a victory
Certainly it is. Compared to being dismissed? Absolutely. |
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phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
 ·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| My question is...
Wholesale? NSA? Money? What the hell, we aren't just talking release of info, but more like selling of info that is by law restricted info to begin with. I swear to the lord above that Bush Administration has made more crooked moves that anyone in the history of congress so far. I hope someone finds a reason to impeach him and his administration, and get Bill, or anyone BUT a Bush family member/relative back in office. Too many political issues in the US these days. Now we have to worry about Lebanon.
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| reply to notajudgement
Re: Smart Judges STILL exist
said by notajudgement :
It isn't necessarily a victory. Read the judgement, there CAN be evidence within the NSA and ATT that can be restricted from use in this case, if dicovery shows that. What this means is that, if in the process of discovery, there are items of secrecy that the government/judge deems to be a national threat, it can and will be withheld within this judgement.
Page 35 of 72.
Also, the judge noted in his ruling that in the past that the gov't refused to provide any evidence and appealed the judges ruling up thru the Supreme Court. This is far from over. I suspect the Gov't and AT&T will refuse the judges order and numerous appeals will follow.
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | Oh, this will definately go to SCOTUS. This, however, is one of those sighs of relief--to know that the legal system understands false manuevering when it crops up.
This is a pretty damned important case. |
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GigahertZ420
join:2001-10-02
Fairbanks, AK | So the judge essentially said to the govt, "If you have nothing to hide why do you want the case dropped?"
How ironic as this is what Bush & Co. has been using to defend their illegal deeds. |
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envoid
join:2002-12-21
Duluth, GA
| reply to phattieg
Re: My question is...
said by phattieg  :Wholesale? NSA? Money? What the hell, we aren't just talking release of info, but more like selling of info that is by law restricted info to begin with. I swear to the lord above that Bush Administration has made more crooked moves that anyone in the history of congress so far. I hope someone finds a reason to impeach him and his administration, and get Bill, or anyone BUT a Bush family member/relative back in office. Too many political issues in the US these days. Now we have to worry about Lebanon. Even if not a Bush family member there are many crooks in politics that will and do scratch others' backs to have their back scratched, and so on. Almost any replacement would be worthless, republican, democrat, green, retarded, whatever...  |
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ifarrell
join:2000-08-10
Willow Spring, NC
 ·Vonage
1 edit | reply to jc100
Re: Smart Judges STILL exist
said by jc100 :Hail this judges decision. Companies cooperating with the government SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED to do so without a court order. I praise google for telling the Bush administration to Piss off. Some of these coward companies handing over the documents should be sued into oblivion and customers SHOULD NOT patronize them. Att = SHIT LISTED.... NEVER USE THEM guys. No, all this judge has done is pass the buck.
He'd rather somebody else take the buck for allowing AT&T and the Nazi Security Agency get away with invading your privacy. |
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envoid
join:2002-12-21
Duluth, GA
2 edits | reply to GigahertZ420
Well, from my reading, it seems like the Gubm't can invoke a claim of privilege even if the wiretap IS illegally conducted, and especially so when it is considered a time of war. Though didn't Bush say it wasn't or something and then say it was or vice-versa?
quote:
In particular, the government contends that the executive has inherent constitutional authority to conduct warrantless searches for foreign intelligence purposes, id at 24 (citing In re Sealed Case, 310 F3d 717, 742 (For Intel Surv Ct of Rev 2002)), and that the warrant requirement does not apply here because this case involves “special needs” that go beyond a routine interest in law enforcement, id at 26.
This sums up the Gubmt's thinking right here. "We don't need no stinking warrants!"
quote:
The first step in determining whether a piece of information constitutes a “state secret” is determining whether that information actually is a “secret.” Hence, before analyzing the application of the state secrets privilege to plaintiffs’ claims, the court summarizes what has been publicly disclosed about NSA surveillance programs as well as the AT&T documents and accompanying Klein and Marcus declarations.
Within the last year, public reports have surfaced on at least two different types of alleged NSA surveillance programs, neither of which relies on warrants. The New York Times disclosed the first such program on December 16, 2005. Doc #19 (Cohn Decl), Ex J (James Risen and Eric Lichtblau, Bush Lets US Spy on Callers Without Courts, The New York Times (Dec 16, 2005)). The following day, President George W Bush confirmed the existence of a “terrorist surveillance program” in his weekly radio address:
GW said:
In the weeks following the [September 11, 2001] terrorist attacks on our Nation, I authorized the National Security Agency, consistent with US law and the Constitution, to intercept the international communications of people with known links to Al Qaeda and related terrorist
organizations. Before we intercept these communications, the Government must have information that establishes a clear link to these terrorist networks.
Thankfully the Judge is smart and realizes that even if someone says something is a secret yet everyone knows about that something, it is no longer a "secret." And, thankfully, GW made it no longer a "secret." LOL
And I love how AT&T thinks they're special...
quote:
AT&T also contends it is entitled to statutory, common law and qualified immunity.
I still wish much luck to the EFF on this; Once it gets to the SCOTUS it will most likely be ruled against them. Kinda sad, really. |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| reply to ifarrell
said by ifarrell :said by jc100 :Hail this judges decision. Companies cooperating with the government SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED to do so without a court order. I praise google for telling the Bush administration to Piss off. Some of these coward companies handing over the documents should be sued into oblivion and customers SHOULD NOT patronize them. Att = SHIT LISTED.... NEVER USE THEM guys. No, all this judge has done is pass the buck. He'd rather somebody else take the buck for allowing AT&T and the Nazi Security Agency get away with invading your privacy. If he is the judge over seeing this case, please explain how he is "passing the buck" to someone else? |
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envoid
join:2002-12-21
Duluth, GA | Exactly, Cheese69. The Judge denied the move for dismissal by the Gubm't and AT&T. The case is not being passed to another court, judge, or arbitrator of any kind. |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | reply to envoid
Re: My question is...
i dunno. republicans seem to have a idiot streak going, and they want to hit the world record with bush and family.
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no sig |
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looser
join:2001-02-04
La Mesa, CA | Where are all the shills at? I thought they would have been throwing around all their devils advocate "Sig HEIL" stuff by now, slackers. |
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ftthz
If love can kill hate can also save
join:2005-10-17 | some oversight
finally... |
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dougp74
Premium
join:2006-03-09
Vancouver, BC
| Support 'em - they're fighting for YOU!
Support the Electronic Frontier Foundation with a modest donation, they're not some deep-pocket corporation, they're a non-profit which is fighting for YOUR freedom!
»www.eff.org/
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dougp74 |
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Old_Grouch
Don't just sit there silly DO something
Premium
join:2004-05-26
Greenwood, IN
clubs:
 ·AT&T Midwest
| The "key" could be the relationships
Most people in business realize that sometimes a competitor can be a customer. Couldn't it also be that a vendor could be a partner?
Before divestiture AT&T (the ma bell variety) had substantial responsibilities for National Security/Emergency Preparedness nationally in the arena of communications. If memory serves, NS/EP was specifically assigned as a result of the MFJ so it would be protected through the break-up on 1-1-84.
Presidential Executive Orders are numbered sequentially and remain in effect until they are revoked at a later date. There is one issued in 1950 (EO 10104) that there are military installations so vital as to require no information be released about them. 1950 and it still applies today!
In April, 1984, EO 12472 was signed that set forth the Assignment of national security and emergency preparedness telecommunications functions. Some of you might want to read part of it (pick a part since it's long and you'll likely lose interest) to get a sense for who drives the issue now and imagine the SBCatt et al relationship to the entities involved. Then ask yourself if the telcom(s) were acting as vendors to the government or as a part of the planning and provisioning process for this key element - - especially in a time of conflict (or war or whatever suits you).
You can get to the EO Here if you're interested. The link isn't to a government web site but I sense that it is kept updated.
It may not change any of your minds and I'm not sure I care about that. I'd really like to see the debate rise above big business, secrets and which judge has what equipment under his robes. There is a method to the madness and it helps to have some insight to the rules of the game 'fore you get too deep into coaching from behind the sidelines.
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