icex _
Premium
join:2004-05-22
USA
clubs: | Dumb...
Wouldent they have to pay extra fees if they roamed? I don't see why they'd complain.. |
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remusrm
join:2003-04-07
Northridge, CA | n/a
well... they are going to hit bottom soon... way to many problems... cingular is ran just like the att... |
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icp1
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
1 edit | what's the problem?
All the policy says is "don't give them huge discounts on phones, and don't try hard to save them if they want to leave"
What's wrong with that?
I used to hate cingular, but my last dealings have been much better. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| reply to icex _
Re: Dumb...
said by icex _  :Wouldent they have to pay extra fees if they roamed? I don't see why they'd complain.. Most of Cingular's plans are no-roaming, no-long distance. Cingular only gets stung by this if you are using a non-Cingular owned network in the USA as they have to eat the roaming costs (you still pay for international roaming).
I'm curious to see what their definition of "unprofitable" is. A couple months back on a cross-country trip, I transferred 183MB of data with my GPRS phone and made all sorts of calls in many different parts of the country!
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Tancredo 2008! |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| Not profitable?
That's impossible. An unlimited plan should be able to accommodate someone who uses a service all the time and still make a profit.(or at the very least break even)
Cingular pays no more for bandwidth than any other internet provider. My dsl is 15 bucks a month and I max it out all the time and do hundreds of gigs a month. The dsl company is definitely still making a profit.
Capping and customer flagging are just ways to make more profit, not ways to prevent losses. There are no losses with offering services like this, just lower profits. |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | We'll see if they become Verizon...
and start cancelling users who use too much of the so-called unlimited services. |
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icex _
Premium
join:2004-05-22
USA
clubs: | reply to pnh102
Re: Dumb...
Oh, ok. |
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itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA
| reply to insomniac84
Re: Not profitable?
quote:
That's impossible. An unlimited plan should be able to accommodate someone who uses a service all the time and still make a profit.(or at the very least break even)
Some carriers offer an "unlimited plan", but they are $2-300/mo. And, just like DSL and Cable, there are invisible caps.
quote:
Cingular pays no more for bandwidth than any other internet provider. My dsl is 15 bucks a month and I max it out all the time and do hundreds of gigs a month. The dsl company is definitely still making a profit.
But there is a fundamental difference in the technology. DSL is a dedicated circuit from your house to the CO.
With Cellular, there are a fixed number of channels/slots/etc per cell site. Those can be either voice or data. Data devices use 1 to many timeslots per connection. Have too much data and you can't complete calls. Complete too many calls and your data rate will drop. There needs to be a balance.... It's not the bandwith of the Internet, but the # of calls/data a cell site can support.
And it's not easy to just pop up a new cell site. Estimates are MILLIONS of $ for the equipment and then many thousands $ of recurring costs. Not an easy proposition.
quote:
Capping and customer flagging are just ways to make more profit, not ways to prevent losses. There are no losses with offering services like this, just lower profits.
And the stock market demands increasing profits. There can be losses - you can't connect calls, customers become dissatisfied and leave, lowering profits. Lower profits enough and a loss will ensue. |
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Alpine
Premium
join:2000-01-11
Atlanta, GA
| reply to pnh102
Re: Dumb...
183 megs over GPRS? That's a whole lot of slow-lane downloading! Hehe..
I wonder if any other consequences are forthcoming. Hard caps or something similar? I just bought a Cingular 2125 Smartphone and love it, especially with the $20/month SmartPhone Unlimited data plan. I personally don't use it constantly, but that's just 'cuz downloading at under 20k/sec is painful for anything other than normal surfing and email. But I know some people do have apps that are perpetually connected. Hopefully they don't get capped.
I think it's a little lame to deny "unprofitable" people deals on phone upgrades after contract-expiration, but we're only talking once every one/two years. At least they're letting those people out of their contracts for free.
Adam |
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dick white
Premium
join:2000-03-24
Annandale, VA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| It getting to be like insurance...
The original principle of insurance was banding together large pools of people to share the risk. Some will have an "unprofitable" event, others will not. Now, if you have an accident, your insurance rate is hiked sky-high or cancelled; only the cream-puff accounts are retained. Seems to be the same business model for the cell phone and internet companies - if you actually use the service being sold as "unlimited," you are an unprofitable customer to be jetisoned at the earliest opportunity.
dw |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here
| The difference being this isn't refusing service.
It's basic business. You bend over backwards for the A-class customers, help along the B-class customers, tolerate the C-class, and cut your losses on the D-class. The difference here is Cingular isn't dropping or cuting off customers they're losing mony on. They're just refusing to lose more money on them. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | reply to Alpine
Re: Dumb...
You cut deals for customers who bring you profit or who are loyal.
Bending over backwards to keep customers who bog the system down and you can't turn a profit on is bad business sense in every way. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to Alpine
said by Alpine :183 megs over GPRS? That's a whole lot of slow-lane downloading! Hehe.. Well... i guess you have to have some sort of fun on the road when you've seen all the scenery already. But the data service was actually quite good. I only had dropped connections in southern Texas in 3 spots along I-10.
said by Alpine :I wonder if any other consequences are forthcoming. Hard caps or something similar? I just bought a Cingular 2125 Smartphone and love it, especially with the $20/month SmartPhone Unlimited data plan. I also have a Smartphone. As for consequences, I really don't care. So they cancel my data plan or my contract, I am up $70 a month LOL.
said by Alpine :I personally don't use it constantly, but that's just 'cuz downloading at under 20k/sec is painful for anything other than normal surfing and email. But I know some people do have apps that are perpetually connected. Hopefully they don't get capped. I seriously doubt that low speed data users will be capped, as in the grand scheme of things, 183MB in a month really isn't that much data anymore. I am sure if you were leeching data using a 3G phone at full blast, they might say something as Verizon does.
said by Alpine :I think it's a little lame to deny "unprofitable" people deals on phone upgrades after contract-expiration, but we're only talking once every one/two years. At least they're letting those people out of their contracts for free. Well fortunately there is still some competition left in this industry. There's now nothing stopping people from simply taking their business elsewhere if they run into said predicament.
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Tancredo 2008! |
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atuarre
Here come the drums
Premium
join:2004-02-14
Lake Charles, LA
clubs:
| reply to bogey780
Re: It getting to be like insurance...
Nothing is unlimited. Bandwidth costs money. Even Verizon is not turning a profit with FIOS which is what has the investors up in arms. The same applies here. You are paying 20$ a month for unlimited data but you know going in that the data is not unlimited. If you abuse it, it will likely get yanked.
Just like people who get on cable and just download or upload 24/7. |
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Zoder
join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL
| reply to pnh102
Re: Dumb...
The only problem is the alpha tags on the phone don't tell you whether you are on or off network. Cingular advertises themselves as the "allover network". So as long as you get a signal the alpha tag says Cingular even if you are roaming on another providers network. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Someone posted this map in another forum... this link clearly shows which is the "real" Cingular network and which one is the "fake" network.
»63.241.153.180/coverageviewer/B2B.html
You need to zoom in a few levels to see the "partner" networks.
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Tancredo 2008! |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to atuarre
Re: It getting to be like insurance...
said by atuarre :Nothing is unlimited. ... You are paying 20$ a month for unlimited data but you know going in that the data is not unlimited. Whether or not we know it is unlimited is irrelevant. If any ISP does not want to offer unlimited service, then say so up front. It should be highly illegal to advertise any service as being unlimited without the service actually being unlimited.
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Tancredo 2008! |
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whfsdude
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC | reply to Alpine
Re: Dumb...
Probably EGPRS. |
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Zoder
join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL
1 edit | reply to pnh102
I know about the map but they have 55 million plus customers and most do not. All they see is the map on the pamphlets in the store.
Which only shows areas where you will get signal and areas where you will not.
If Cingular is going to use this new policy they should have the alpha tags tell a customer when they are roaming. But then they would no longer be able to fool customers by thinking everything is Cingular so they are not going to do this unless some Attorneys Generals or the FTC start getting antsy. |
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atuarre
Here come the drums
Premium
join:2004-02-14
Lake Charles, LA
clubs: | reply to pnh102
Re: It getting to be like insurance...
I believe most of them have something listed in very small print, kind of like webhosts that offer unlimited bandwidth. |
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