danny9894
Student
join:2004-03-05
Minneapolis, MN | Sigh
Wouldn't just going to fiber now be a better solution than later? |
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RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs: | 20-25 M down
But you notice that no where did he appear to get (or desired to report) a hint on what the up speeds are. 126K? 256K?
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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jimpalmer4
join:2005-03-08
11111 | reply to danny9894
Re: Sigh
Yeah, but that would make sense. |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL | reply to danny9894
It would be a better solution. But if they installed Fiber now (like Verizon is doing) what will they bitch about in 10 years when they go crying to the government they can need funding to help bring the country into new era of technology? |
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reelbigfish
join:2002-06-06
Boston, MA | reply to RayW
Re: 20-25 M down
On all packages right now for U-Verse, there is 1Mbps available for internet. Not sure how much else is left over, but there has to be at least 1.5-2Mbps so that there is room for internet and TV commands for channel changes and VOD. |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
 ·Qwest.net
| Copper
Another case of copper poisoning  |
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Anonymous-1
@sbc.com
| reply to danny9894
Re: Sigh
It's not as simple as going to fiber. The reason that AT&T decided to use existing copper (at least for now) in the first place was the cost of the boxes that switch the fiber signal. For FTTP, you need one of these expensive boxes at every home. For FTTN, you need only one for every 100-500 homes (depending on how many homes each node supplies). Also, if you read actual customer reports, they are getting upwards of 75-90 mbps within range and there have been many instances of 25mbps or greater past 25mbps. Uverseusers.com has plenty of good info on this. |
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pcnetworx1
join:2005-09-21
Bethel Park, PA | reply to Transmaster
Re: Copper
Thanks for the clarification. I can't tell now when the turning green is envy of Verizon's FiOS or regular poisoning by corrosion... |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
2 edits | Yes the Telco's have 1000's of miles of copper lines strung out across the country side it has poisoned their brains to improvements in their network. 
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The older I get the more I prefer the company of my dogs over that of man kind. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to Anonymous-1
Re: Sigh
said by Anonymous-1 :
It's not as simple as going to fiber. The reason that AT&T decided to use existing copper (at least for now) in the first place was the cost of the boxes that switch the fiber signal. For FTTP, you need one of these expensive boxes at every home. For FTTN, you need only one for every 100-500 homes (depending on how many homes each node supplies). Also, if you read actual customer reports, they are getting upwards of 75-90 mbps within range and there have been many instances of 25mbps or greater past 25mbps. Uverseusers.com has plenty of good info on this.
Yeah, 75-90mbps at 300ft or so.
»AT&T VDSL: Gateway Sync at 97Mbps
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I have tried to see things from your point of view, but no matter how hard I try, or what I do, I just can't get my head that far up my ass. |
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toadlife
Premium
join:2004-05-03
Lemoore, CA | »AT&T VDSL: Gateway Sync at 97Mbps |
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Zorglub
join:2000-11-18
Fremont, CA
| reply to Transmaster
Re: Copper
At least Verizon is laying out the cash while it's still making it and before the cablecos steal too much market share. ATT is spending money, and not even that much less than it would spend on fiber, on a transition technology that will be obsole almost right away. We'll see whether ATT still has enough cash to spend on fiber in 5-10 years when they realize that they have no choice but to upgrade. |
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hufh
@swbell.net
| Look at the population served people. Or rather, look at a map. ATT is spread out throughout the Midwest to the southwest and soon to the southeast. Verizon's Customer base is much more clustered then ATT's, making FTTP much more justifiable for verizon. Whats wrong with them trying the last bit of distance to the home over copper and if it fails they go the rest of the way. |
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Enlightener
join:2006-01-28
Cedar Park, TX | reply to Anonymous-1
Re: Sigh
The way I read those status pages, the modem calculated the theoretical sync rate to be at that speed. The actual sync rate was 25mb. Don't expect that speed in real life when a bunch of pairs try to light up at that speed and things get noisey. |
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richardpor
Fur it up
join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR
1 edit | ATT Thinking Outside the Fiber Box
You fiber fanatics do not get it. The current state of fiber to the home makes it too impracticable for most areas like the apartment complex I live at. I do not see it being feasible to run 300 cables and find 300 spots, one box in each apartment to install the bulky and expensive fiber junction boxes especially in the studio apartments where I live. It is not happening. ATT can provide faster than cable service at a significant less cost that running fiber to the home. Where I live, it would be easier to run fiber to the junction box then use existing copper that fiber to the apartment in my case. It would be a win win for ATT over Verizon. Faster speeds that can serve more customers at a less cost to ATT equals more profit. |
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FTTN
@swbell.net | U couldn't be more correct! |
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Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
clubs:
 ·BlueYonder Interne..
·Be There
| reply to richardpor
Actually I don't think you get it.
FTTC / FTTK if it isn't done properly is pointless. As ATT are in their infinite wisdom trying to get it done as quickly as possible using existing junction cabinets, rather than following the more appropriate course of actually getting the fibre into neighbourhoods and providing sub 1.5kft loops to everyone to actually see some benefit from the VDSL they will be rewiring again in the not too distant future.
For MUDs, FTTB Fibre To The Building is a perfectly viable solution, with extremely short copper loops from an MSAN in the basement to supply the dwellings in that complex.
For a lot of deployments outside of MUDs there is no real point in anything bar a full FTTP rollout. Due to distance limitations, crosstalk potential, initial cost of putting fibre in the loop and future upgrade costs anything else can be unviable.
I am aware that some people comment on 'leveraging the existing copper' however given that in a lot of cases that copper has been there for decades I'd say it's quite leveraged enough 
Either way doing it on the cheap is an extremely bad idea, and results in an investor pleasing lower initial investment, sure, but it's a 'pay less now, pay again, and again later'.
Even in your case FTTB is an interim solution and eventually a full fibre rollout will be required, just a question of when.
So unless the US now suddenly has the population density of Hong Kong with line after line of huge apartment complexes I'd say FTTP is a good solution especially if pre-wired or replacing the existing POTS wiring completely. In lower population density areas where there would be issues with getting enough loop lengths below 1.5kft on MSANs I'd call it the only solution.
I am not aware of Verizon's MUD solution, unless you are I don't think either of us are in a position to judge it, I just go by the experience of NTT Japan.
Either way ATT's solution makes little sense from any perspective bar the short term financial one, it isn't an upgrade for the future for those outside MUDs it's one just to keep the money men pleased for now. |
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Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
clubs:
·BlueYonder Interne..
·Be There
1 edit | reply to toadlife
Re: Sigh
Of course to be fair that isn't actually the sync rate it's an estimated maximum.
That guy is within range anyway, 500m / 1.5kft is 'VDSL2' range. When you go over that the speeds drop fairly rapidly. So if they are infact using existing junction cabinet where does this leave the people at 3kft and above, where VDSL2 offers little speed increase over ADSL2+?
I personally would stick with cable in that instance as I like being able to download at 10Mbit/s or more and be able to run 2 or 3 TVs.
Ah performance will drop nicely too once they have a few lines on each MSAN to crosstalk. |
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Delta70
@swbell.net | reply to Ignite
Re: ATT Thinking Outside the Fiber Box
Actually Verizon's Mud solution is the ont 621.
»www.tellabs.com/products/1000/tl···_621.pdf |
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XBL2009
------
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to Rob
Re: Sigh
said by Rob  :It would be a better solution. But if they installed Fiber now (like Verizon is doing) what will they bitch about in 10 years when they go crying to the government they can need funding to help bring the country into new era of technology? If Bush hadn't wasted 500 Billion on the war we could all have fiber to the home and super soar away wireless connections all across America.
At least it would something tangible we could all enjoy.
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Look who's talking. You haven't even peeled potatoes for the Military..........REPLY: Neither have Dick Cheney or Karl Rove !!! |
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