r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
St John'S, NL | This is terrible!
We need network neutrality now. If I am paying for my connection I should not be block or impeaded from using it how I see fit. |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | Just don't use it illegally. |
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c0de
join:2004-10-14
Richmond, VA
| FREEDOM!
this is bullshit! that is like being blocked from what you can buy at the supermarket because it might be bad for your diet. FREEDOM!!!! You pay for a service you should be able to do what you want with it, if you break the law and get caught, then you will have to pay the price for breaking the law! |
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Aleck79
join:2003-07-23
College Station, TX | which will last about 5 seconds
...won that just last until the encription is changed? |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| reply to tsu9
Re: This is terrible!
But do we want our ISPs/carriers "listening in" to the files we're downloading to determine "legality"? I think not. There are legal reasons to use BT, to use encryption, and to transfer very large files.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! |
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Necronomikro
join:2005-09-01
| said by calvoiper  :There are legal reasons to use BT, to use encryption, and to transfer very large files. Indeed, transfer a large linux iso and don't want it throttled. Legal reason to use linux, encrypt the transfer and it be a large file. |
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Jim Gurd
Premium
join:2000-07-08
Plymouth, MI
 ·AT&T DSL Service
 ·Comcast
| reply to Aleck79
Re: which will last about 5 seconds
said by Aleck79 :...won that just last until the encription is changed? How can they know what the traffic is if it's encrypted? I suspect they are classifying anything that can't be identified and is high bandwidth as P2P. In other words they're guessing.
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Correlation does not imply causation. |
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phoneboy2
@shawcable.net
| cat and mouse is bad for everyone
Countermeasures to avoid measures and on and on is BS. I agree that there needs to be clear ENFORCEABLE rules placed on the providers as to what they can and cannot do. That way all providers have an equal playing field. Competition will increase and we will benefit.
Whatever is done, you can't rely on gov'ts for anything. It would need to be done some other way. |
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Aleck79
join:2003-07-23
College Station, TX
| reply to Jim Gurd
Re: which will last about 5 seconds
If they broke the encryption, but I really doubt that one.
I dunno how they are pulling this one off, the press release from Allot is kind of vague, pretty much saying it works cause it works. I think that it works by looking at how packets behave, that would be a dead giveaway to a p2p application if the networks sees a lot of different open connections and how the data flows. The press release states that it will separate and be able to control unknown protocols, but I don't think they are just throttling everything unknown as it specifically states that in the PR that they can throttle specifically the encrypted BT data.
My guess is that it is label "unknown" until it is analyzed and the behavior of the protocol understood. |
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owenhome
keeper of the magic blue smoke
Premium
join:2002-07-13
Bentonville, AR
|  Who said ISP's were "fart smellers"?
You, this is really tantamount to putting a speed governor on your car which will not let you go faster than 20 MPH because you MIGHT...... SOMEDAY...... be going faster than 20 MPH....... IN A SCHOOL ZONE.... So, the solution is, you can never go faster than 20 MPH, EVER....... JUST IN CASE!
I can understand why the ISP's would throttle BT, it does use an enormous amount of BW, but are they not simply shooting the messenger?
Hopefully, for all of us, some day in the near future, ISP's will be forced to let us use the amount of BW we purchase for whatever we choose to. I doubt it will ever happen, but I hope it will. Failing that, we will face similar situations, time after time, forever.
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Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference. |
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dervari
join:2000-01-17
Atlanta, GA
clubs: | reply to Necronomikro
Re: This is terrible!
I tried downloading a Fedora ISO using BT and it was slower than downloading from the Redhat site. |
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r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
St John'S, NL
 ·magicjack.com
·Cox HSI
·Insight Communicat..
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to owenhome
Re: Who said ISP's were "fart smellers"?
If ISP did not want us to use as much bandwidth as possible, they have to stop advertising unlimited bandwidth and start advertising limits.
We just need laws that force company's to be truthful in advertising.
Their new ads should then say, unlimited usage and 6mbps down except for Bit Torrent traffic in big bold letters and with a spoken voice (if tv) on every advertisment.
This way if people want bit torrent they will go with a different provider, if possible. |
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Necronomikro
join:2005-09-01 | reply to dervari
Re: This is terrible!
Ubuntu linux was faster off of BT. *shrug* |
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Techman21
join:2005-04-14
Richmond, VA
| reply to tsu9
Its still my choice whether its illegal or not. Now if I have to deal with the consequences of said choice then that is something I have to deal with. My choices are none of the ISPs business, unless they break the TOS and last I checked using my connection to file share to whom I see fit is not breaking the TOS.
Even if it was the TOS I'm apt to believe it would be something on the books but something that isn't really notice or is swept under the rug so customers continue to feed the telco/cable industry. |
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wwdubbia
join:2002-06-03
Clinton, NY
| reply to Aleck79
Re: which will last about 5 seconds
said by Aleck79 :If they broke the encryption, but I really doubt that one. I dunno how they are pulling this one off, the press release from Allot is kind of vague, pretty much saying it works cause it works. I think that it works by looking at how packets behave, that would be a dead giveaway to a p2p application if the networks sees a lot of different open connections and how the data flows. The press release states that it will separate and be able to control unknown protocols, but I don't think they are just throttling everything unknown as it specifically states that in the PR that they can throttle specifically the encrypted BT data. My guess is that it is label "unknown" until it is analyzed and the behavior of the protocol understood. can't they just look to see a user having multiple connections to a tracker; regardless if it's legal or not, encrypted or not, and just slow it down? |
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koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
| Awful for many reasons, but this one irks me the most.
"Cache Discovery Protocol", a.k.a. CDP.
CDP is an already-used acronym in the networking industry. Anyone who's familiar with Cisco Discovery Protocol will surely become irritated when some torrent kids start talking about "CDP".
Plus, "cache" is an ambiguous word as well. *sigh*
Someone will eventually come out with a BitTorrent alternative. It's pretty obvious BT is going downhill...
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Making life hard for others since 1977. |
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phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
 ·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to calvoiper
Re: This is terrible!
said by calvoiper :But do we want our ISPs/carriers "listening in" to the files we're downloading to determine "legality"? I think not. There are legal reasons to use BT, to use encryption, and to transfer very large files. calvoiper It's not the files they are after, it's the packet headers, and consistencies in the payload. No ISP is going to monitor your traffic like that. The ISP has the right to keep their costs down by throttling bandwidth to users who are using it for services they pay for, and according to many TOS's, they don't have to allow everything, it's all based off of fair use. It's not fair if I need a virus update, but because everyone in my node is using P2P, I can't get it as fast. Whereas on the flip side, if you are sharing files, and it has been known that the majority of the files on P2P is illegal, I would throttle you in a heartbeat, simply because it makes since, you're trashing my network with all this traffic, while legitimate normal applications usually don't hog as much.
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SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1. |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL
1 edit | reply to calvoiper
I don't disagree, Cal. The determination isn't something that can really be done by the ISP. So, instead, they punish legitimate uses for the burden on their network (regardless of legality).
They aren't throttling it for the legal/illegal reasons; it's all about the popularity. And, honestly, this just showcases the shortfalls of the system. There is a huge demand out there, and BT is one of the applications that has sprung up that can bring that desire to fruition.
The ISPs really should be stepping up to the plate, rather than swatting it back down.
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"You do not secure the liberty of our country and value of our democracy by undermining them, that's the road to hell." - Lord Phillips of Sudbury. |
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dhaas
join:2001-12-02
Alma, MI
| reply to c0de
Re: FREEDOM!
how the hell do you figure it like that??
If you go by your logic..I should be able to go down to the local drug store and buy some cocaine..even though it is illeagl it is not anyone's job to tell me I can't buy it...I think not...This is just like the isp saying you can't host servers off your cable modem cause it uses too much bandwidth...
EVERYTHING you can leagally download via BT is availile elsewhere...its just the illeagel stuff your crying about and I dont feel bad for anyone that downloads illegal stuff. |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| reply to phattieg
Re: This is terrible!
If my ISP is marketing my download capability as X Mb/s, then I deserve X Mb/s -- and I don't really care what weaselly bait and switch scheme they try to justify by putting fine print in the TOS.
Phatteig, if your ISP can't download your anti-virus update at the speeds they've claimed to provide you, that is THEIR problem, not the fault of some other user who is just trying to use the bandwidth they've sold him. If the ISP can't support you both, it shouldn't sell both of you the capacity.
BT only exists because ISPs continue to "throttle" upstream traffic. If upstream speeds matched downstream speeds, the advantage of BT (downloading one file from many sources) would disappear.
What really has the gutless, cheap ISPs worried is that they see more applications which use the bandwidth they claim to be providing. What's next? Are ISPs going to "throttle" live video because it harms their (horribly oversubscribed and underbuilt) network?
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! |
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