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Comments on news posted 2006-10-10 13:55:49: We've repeatedly noted that when bloggers, industry analysts and the companies they analyze discuss competing for your broadband dollar, there's a tendency to treat piracy like the invisible pink elephant in the room. ..
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
1 edit | hummm So does downloading a bootleg movie and watching it make one a pirate?
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I have an imaginary friend, and his name is God. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·T-Mobile US
| Re: hummm said by wifi4milez  :said by hopeflicker :So does downloading a bootleg movie and watching it make one a pirate? YES. That is the definition of a pirate actually. Umm no. The pirate distributes it. | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
1 edit | Re: hummm said by kamm :said by wifi4milez :said by hopeflicker :So does downloading a bootleg movie and watching it make one a pirate? YES. That is the definition of a pirate actually. Umm no. The pirate distributes it. That's what I thought too.
EDIT: come to think of it, a pirate is one that takes from other people. However, i think the term pirate might have a different def. in this case. I dont know.
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I have an imaginary friend, and his name is God. | |
| | | | BladeMcCool
join:2006-10-02
Victoria, BC | The real pirate distrubutes it for money. Only wannabe pirates give stuff away without charging hard currency for their warez. | |
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Midak
Doctors suck
Premium
join:2002-02-26
Yonkers, NY
| said by kamm :said by wifi4milez :said by hopeflicker :So does downloading a bootleg movie and watching it make one a pirate? YES. That is the definition of a pirate actually. Umm no. The pirate distributes it. Yes, and in this case, the downloader is the consumer, who made a choice of which vendor to "do business with" based on price, availability quality or all of the above. Fact is, that if the price was right, the product was easily attainable and the quality was as good or even better than what you find on a torrent or other p2p, I think many more people would go the safe route and pay for the product. If I could download a DVD (at full DVD quality,) burn it and be watching it a an hour or two I might just pay for it if the price was reasonable. Don't charge me 19.99 when I can buy it in the store for that amount. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | Re: hummm Exactly. | |
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jwersan
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, and Max.
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Port Jefferson Station, NY
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| Re: hummm said by kamm :Exactly. DITTO!
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RIAA... Bite me!!!! | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: hummm Doesn't "theft" in the Pirate sense, entail denying access to the original work by the owner?
If I were to download a copy of the original from some "site", the original is still there for the "owner" to access.
No theft has taken place. No one is denied access to the original work.
Now, this is what is called Copyright Infringement.
It is not theft in any way. Theft is taking the "item" and leaving nothing in it's place. The original is still there - it has been copied.
As to the article, when someone downloads a copy of a movie or music track, there are NO LIMITATIONS on what this person can do with the file.
They can burn it to disc and play it in virtually any device.
They can transfer it to any device as many times as needed.
There is no need for ??? player software to go online and retrieve a license for playback.
The file doesn't die 24 hours later.
As soon as the xxAAs wake the f*** up and scrap the whole DRM bullshit, and lower the prices for non-physical media, then purchasing a LEGAL copy will be more atractive to everyone.
If I get a file, and it (tries to) installs some BS player software on my machine just to play that file, and that POS software breaks something... where do you think I will go next time I want that type of file?
Back to the asshats that borked my machine?
Or, to BT/Newsgroups to get a *CLEAN*(no-breaky-machiney) file?
Think about it...
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| Re: hummm said by dadkins :Doesn't "theft" in the Pirate sense, entail denying access to the original work by the owner? If I were to download a copy of the original from some "site", the original is still there for the "owner" to access. No theft has taken place. No one is denied access to the original work. Now, this is what is called Copyright Infringement. It is not theft in any way. Theft is taking the "item" and leaving nothing in it's place. The original is still there - it has been copied. As to the article, when someone downloads a copy of a movie or music track, there are NO LIMITATIONS on what this person can do with the file. They can burn it to disc and play it in virtually any device. They can transfer it to any device as many times as needed. There is no need for ??? player software to go online and retrieve a license for playback. The file doesn't die 24 hours later. As soon as the xxAAs wake the f*** up and scrap the whole DRM bullshit, and lower the prices for non-physical media, then purchasing a LEGAL copy will be more atractive to everyone. If I get a file, and it (tries to) installs some BS player software on my machine just to play that file, and that POS software breaks something... where do you think I will go next time I want that type of file? Back to the asshats that borked my machine? Or, to BT/Newsgroups to get a *CLEAN*(no-breaky-machiney) file? Think about it... Well said
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
 ·Speakeasy
| said by dadkins :Back to the asshats that borked my machine? Or, to BT/Newsgroups to get a *CLEAN*(no-breaky-machiney) file? Think about it... It used to be they warned you "don't download software from unknown sites because you might pick up something nasty." Now... Well, now if you go to "reputable" sites, you will get something nasty.
Greaaaat...
-tom
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"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
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join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: hummm said by nixen :said by dadkins :Back to the asshats that borked my machine? Or, to BT/Newsgroups to get a *CLEAN*(no-breaky-machiney) file? Think about it... It used to be they warned you "don't download software from unknown sites because you might pick up something nasty." Now... Well, now if you go to "reputable" sites, you will get something nasty. Greaaaat... -tom Shit! Buying the actual DVD or CD may trash your machine!
Screw the downloads!
I'll take my chances with the downloads sooner than running a DVD or CD that tries to root my laptop! 
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
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Alexandria, VA
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| Re: hummm said by dadkins :said by nixen :said by dadkins :Back to the asshats that borked my machine? Or, to BT/Newsgroups to get a *CLEAN*(no-breaky-machiney) file? Think about it... It used to be they warned you "don't download software from unknown sites because you might pick up something nasty." Now... Well, now if you go to "reputable" sites, you will get something nasty. Greaaaat... -tom Shit! Buying the actual DVD or CD may trash your machine! Screw the downloads! I'll take my chances with the downloads sooner than running a DVD or CD that roots my laptop! Buying (or borrowing, or applying the five-finger discount) the DVD or CD won't trash your machine, but putting the media in certainly might.
-tom
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"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: hummm ROFL!
Just what I want to see, one(or more) of my security apps popping up a warning window when I try to play a disc, be it a CD or DVD!
Yeah, that sounds cool, huh?
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
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Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
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| Re: hummm said by dadkins :ROFL! Just what I want to see, one(or more) of my security apps popping up a warning window when I try to play a disc, be it a CD or DVD! Yeah, that sounds cool, huh? Better that they did pop something up than that they let the nasties go about their merry way. No?
-tom
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"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| Re: hummm said by dadkins :LOL! "Buy our LEGAL discs, it's safer!" Rootkit, machine crippling DRM, God knows what else... but it's legal.  Download the file... *maybe* a virus or trojan, but I have anti-virus and anti-trojan scanners/protection. Decisions decisions... In other news, Tower Records is going out of busines...
-tom
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"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis | |
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jstep73
join:2004-02-28
Rock Island, IL | Re: hummm Tower Records.
Home of the $20.00 cd.
What a shame.  | |
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PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03
·CableOne
| I have never once gotten any mal/spy/crapware or virii or trojans from downloading mp3s and videos. But the Sony DRM stuff scared the crap out of me and I was simply lucky it didn't effect me, as I still like to purchase the good cds, and by pure luck didn't happen to purchase any with DRM on 'em.
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"I invented it, Bill made it famous." --David Bradley, the inventor of Ctrl+Alt+Del. | |
| | | | | | | | | | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| the person making and distrobuting the copy is the pirate. so the person you DL from is the pirate. which is why the RIAA/MPAA go after these people, not to mention its alot harder to chase a downloader as most p2p aps dont keep IP logs.
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: hummm said by Kearnstd :the person making and distrobuting the copy is the pirate. Right.
so the person you DL from is the pirate.
Right - you don't make it nor distribute it.
which is why the RIAA/MPAA go after these people, not to mention its alot harder to chase a downloader as most p2p aps dont keep IP logs.
Umm but they do go after the downloader. | |
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Pirate515
Premium
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY
| Re: hummm WRONG. This is a typical comment made by someone who doesn't understand how protocols like eDonkey/BitTorent work. Once you download a chunk of file, it is automatically shared with other users on the network, even if the whole file hasn't finished downloading yet. So while you have your eDonkey/BitTorrent client running, you are also distributing what you are downloading to other users. And if it is a copyrighted work that you are sharing and RIAA/MPAA nails you, they will sue you for unauthorized distribution above anything else. As far as they are concerned, they are the only ones who have the rights to distribute their music/movies, and if anyone else is caught doing it without their permission, they need to be punished.
FYI, you are pretty safe from getting if you stick to download-only kinds of services such as newsgroups.
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Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill... | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: hummm said by Pirate515 :WRONG. This is a typical comment made by someone who doesn't understand how protocols like eDonkey/BitTorent work. Once you download a chunk of file, it is automatically shared with other users on the network, even if the whole file hasn't finished downloading yet. So while you have your eDonkey/BitTorrent client running, you are also distributing what you are downloading to other users. And if it is a copyrighted work that you are sharing and RIAA/MPAA nails you, they will sue you for unauthorized distribution above anything else. As far as they are concerned, they are the only ones who have the rights to distribute their music/movies, and if anyone else is caught doing it without their permission, they need to be punished. FYI, you are pretty safe from getting if you stick to download-only kinds of services such as newsgroups. COngrat that you finally understood how p2p works - but what are you preaching here, I dunno... it has nothing to do with my comment. 
PS: Geez, if you're an age-old usenet user - I've used usenet before internet kicked in - like me then few things can be more sarcastic and/or funny when some young enthusiastic 'expert' fella thinks he can explain p2p or file sharing or usenet for you...  | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: hummm Having seen this discussion about a million times at this point I've concluded there's a semantic club that wanders the vast Interwebs simply pointing out the difference between stating someone is getting busted for downloading versus getting busted for sharing....
The rest of the discussion can make no sense provided they step in to clarify that point. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | I dunno... you could argue that the act of downloading a file is creating a new copy on your machine so you could technically consider the act to be "pirating", ie, making you the Pirate. | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| Re: hummm Consider this:
You build your own DVR (or PVR). You record an episode of "LOST", you remove all of the commercials and give it to a friend.
In fact, you recorded the entire season and gave it to a friend commercial free.
So the only thing different here is that the video signal went through your cable box and not your cable modem.
Am I a pirate?
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I have an imaginary friend, and his name is God. | |
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nirvansk815
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
clubs:
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| Re: hummm said by hopeflicker :Consider this: You build your own DVR (or PVR). You record an episode of "LOST", you remove all of the commercials and give it to a friend. In fact, you recorded the entire season and gave it to a friend commercial free. So the only thing different here is that the video signal went through your cable box and not your cable modem. Am I a pirate? Only you can answer that...
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There's so much to be thankful for...How can anyone be sad? | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| Re: hummm said by nirvansk815 :said by hopeflicker :Consider this: You build your own DVR (or PVR). You record an episode of "LOST", you remove all of the commercials and give it to a friend. In fact, you recorded the entire season and gave it to a friend commercial free. So the only thing different here is that the video signal went through your cable box and not your cable modem. Am I a pirate? Only you can answer that... Im asking from a legal perspective.
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I have an imaginary friend, and his name is God. | |
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nirvansk815
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA
clubs:
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1 edit | Re: hummm said by hopeflicker :said by nirvansk815 :said by hopeflicker :Consider this: You build your own DVR (or PVR). You record an episode of "LOST", you remove all of the commercials and give it to a friend. In fact, you recorded the entire season and gave it to a friend commercial free. So the only thing different here is that the video signal went through your cable box and not your cable modem. Am I a pirate? Only you can answer that... Im asking from a legal perspective. I guess it depends on how the creator/owner wants their property to be distributed. Are they trying to make money, or give it away for free? If for money, why not write a letter asking them just to be sure its OK? Or, ask a lawyer. Or, become a congressman and change the law.
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There's so much to be thankful for...How can anyone be sad? | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | I'm an IP lawyer, but on BBR people don't want to hear from lawyers. Blind (willful?) ignorance seems to be easier to live with for some people . . . | |
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See 9 replies to this post | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
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| The LOST producers would say yes, most certainly.
Personally, I would say no, because I feel that's fair use.
We're in a climate tho where the producers and content resellers accuse people of pirating just because they refuse to watch commercials. That's how out-of-whack things are getting. RTV was sunk due to BS lawsuits.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| Re: hummm BTW, i love your sig:
Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)
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I have an imaginary friend, and his name is God. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: hummm Heh. It's a direct quote. He said it, and I thought it was right on the money. ty  | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Short Answer: Yes, you are. But you need the long answer to really find out why.
said by hopeflicker :You build your own DVR (or PVR). Not a pirate yet. Also not a pirate if you are using TIVO, or your cable company's DVR (like I do).
said by hopeflicker :You record an episode of "LOST", Still not a pirate. (I do the same, but not for Lost. )
said by hopeflicker :you remove all of the commercials I'm sure the media companies would argue that you're a pirate now, but IMHO you still aren't. In fact, I do this routinely. (It's better than keeping the shows that my 3 year old son wants to see on our DVR and winding up with no space left.)
Let me skip around a bit now:
said by hopeflicker :In fact, you recorded the entire season I'd argue again that you still aren't a pirate. Of course, once more, I'm sure the media companies would disagree.
said by hopeflicker :and give it to a friend. said by hopeflicker :and gave it to a friend commercial free. Either of these actions are what would make you a pirate. Not the stripping of the commercials. (I do that myself.) But the giving of copies to a friend. IMO, you can do anything you want with those recordings short of sharing it with someone else. (If they come over to watch it at your house or you go to their house, it's ok. Just no handing a copy to your friend.)
Of course, the level of piracy that this involves is so low as to be negligible. IMO, the media companies shouldn't concern themselves with this. Instead, they should focus on the outfits that stamp out 1,000 copies of DVDs and sell them on the streets for 1/10th the cost of the original.
There is always going to be some level of piracy by consumers. Consumers are used to doing various things with the media they buy. Any attempt to lock down the content 100% is going to fail. All it will do is temporarily delay the big time pirates (the ones who rip and share thousands of files) while annoying the small time pirates and users who don't pirate at all.
Again, the media companies, I'm sure, don't agree with me. They seem to think that if they can find the "magic lock" all of their content will be protected and users will only be able to use the content when the media companies approve of the usage (and possibly when the user pays the media companies a bit extra now and then). | |
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| Warez_Zealot
Rural land of the rising sun
join:2006-04-19
japan
3 edits | You're talking about fair usage. As far as I know, most companies would make it so that you can't even lend your friends a copy of your game/movie (if they could.. Search some articles where sony wants (or wanted to implement that feature in PS3/Blueray players).
I know japan made it illegal to rent games and movies. USA, I assume not since Blockbuster still exists (I'm sure movie/game makers hate rental companies though). | |
| | | | | | russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| You may think it's right, but you're stepping on both the reproduction right and the public performance right in your Mythbusters-in-class scenario (and you would step on the latter even if you showed Mythbusters in class as it was broadcast). I doubt the courts would find that use to be fair; educational use is not automatically fair use. You'd fail three of the four tests (amount of work used, impact on market, nature of work), and rachael's bosses' goons would love to sue you over it.
This doesn't mean you're wrong to do it. Just that you're probably infringing copyright, because copyright law is out of control. | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
1 edit | Re: hummm Disagree on almost all counts. | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
1 edit | said by russotto :You may think it's right, but you're stepping on both the reproduction right and the public performance right in your Mythbusters-in-class scenario (and you would step on the latter even if you showed Mythbusters in class as it was broadcast). I doubt the courts would find that use to be fair; educational use is not automatically fair use. Actually, educational use is pretty often considered fair use. From »www.eff.org/cafe/gross1.html :
There is no "bright line" test that can tell if a particular use would be considered "fair," but the Copyright Act lists particular activities generally considered fair (this list is not to be construed as exclusive or limiting in any way). Some examples of uses listed in the statute that would generally be considered a fair use to copy copyrighted material include: Criticism, comment, parody, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, research, or personal use such as time or format shifting. (Emphasis mine.)
So while it's possible that the producers of Mythbusters could sue me and win (after all, you could probably find a judge to rule any way you like), it's not cut and dried that they would win. And they would probably lose on appeal. (Of course, this assumes that they would 1) bother to sue me for such a small infraction, 2) not offer some settlement which 3) I would be likely to take considering court costs, and 4) that I would be willing to file an appeal and continue the time consuming court process.)
EDIT: Just in case you think the EFF is biased, here's another link: »www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html···00-.html | |
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reluctant pirate
@mindspring.com | Talk talk Talk Talk! DO something that isnt DRM crippled instead. | |
| travelguy
join:1999-09-03
Santa Fe, NM
| Networks Are Dead I haven't watched US broadcast television (Cable or OTA) in years. 44 minutes of "content" broken up by 16 minutes of ads and promos are a recipe for unwatchable TV.
DVDs and downloaded ad-free programming from other countries are far more interesting and easily fill up the limited time I allocate to TV. | |
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rachelsfx
join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL
1 edit | Re: Networks Are Dead So, illegal downloads are okay since you are time-pressed? LOL! | |
| | | travelguy
join:1999-09-03
Santa Fe, NM | Re: Networks Are Dead The DVDs are purchased and not all countries use an advertiser/commerical model for television programming. | |
| | | Capharnaum
join:2006-06-19
Montreal, QC
| said by rachelsfx :So, illegal downloads are okay since you are time-pressed? LOL! You don't understand... He says that he goes for adfree content legally available. Could be stuff like Google videos, Youtube and many content providers that stream for free without ads. | |
| bigjimc
join:2003-04-21
Middleboro, MA
| Watching NBC I have been watching shows on NBC.COM and what I like is that last week the Studio 60 episode streaming was brought by a car manufacturer. The spots were 15 to 30 seconds and that was it. I watched a on hour show in 45 minutes. It was great.
NBC got me to watch. The car manufacturer paid for the six ads between segments and I could pause and fast forward etc... I didn't mind it.
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Just my 2 cents...Flame Lightly... | |
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thxultra
@il.us
| Re: Watching NBC Couldn't agree with you more. I watched a show the other night I missed on fox on demand and it was great. I still perfer over the air tv to this but it is a great deal if you miss a show. I don't mind the advertisements at all and I was able to see what I missed | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Same here. I watch Heroes on NBC but will also watch it on their website. In fact, I just hooked one of my friends on Heroes by sending him a link to the site. If he wasn't able to view the episode right then and there, he likely wouldn't have been hooked and NBC's Heroes would have one less viewer. (Possibly more as he might convince more people to watch.) | |
| | Capharnaum
join:2006-06-19
Montreal, QC | I would watch too, but they don't feed people from Canada. Bastards. So well, I gotta do something else than spend my nights watching their shows. Stupid imo since they're losing viewers. | |
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Snakeoil
Taxes are Armed robbery.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
| ABC/NBC and other networks. I like the idea of being able to download the tv shows from the networks homepage. Then I can watch them when I want to.
I don't mind the ads, as long as I can nab the TV shows I want at no cost.
Or charge a reasonable rate for ad free extended shows, that have extra content, or uncensored content.
I would support the networks on something like that.
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Say no to the IRS.. Yes to the Fair Tax! This beer is for: 464th bat. 98th div. Combat engineers. Hillside Ave schenectady NY. | |
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robanon61
@comcast.net | On Demand is the future On Demand viewing is the future. People don't want to plan their lives around some programmer's idea of when to broadcast a show or movie. | |
| JonR800
Premium
join:2003-08-06
Farmington, MI
| Bingo Bango Someone gets it! It's always sad when stealing is easier than paying for a legit copy...
Just this weekend I was trying to get a CD to download off of Rhapsody. The order didn't go through the first time, and the service told me to try again. So I try again, same message... try again.. same message. Look at my account and see I've been billed 4 times. Took an hour on the phone to half way sort it out. In the end they just refunded my money, no CD.
So.. the question I had to ask myself was.. would it take me less than 1 hour 30 minutes to steal it?
Not only that, but piracy offers a better product! DRM FREE! | |
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jazzy_
join:2004-01-27
Charleston, SC | Re: Bingo Bango And higher bit rates! =P | |
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Random911
@turner.com
| Nothing wrong with a little piracy The entertainment market is broken and piracy is the invisible hand of free economy moving to fix it.
The purpose of copyright is incentive to increase production. It is assumed that if people are paid for their work they will work harder. However, the entertainment industry has evolved into a small number of "creators" making ridiculous amounts of money, which leads to less variety and even less of the "quality" entertainment which is so highly valued.
Let's pretend (for the sake of simplicity) that Britney Spears creates a high quality product. She is paid millions of dollars for this product. Her pay is too high because she would be forced to create more if she were paid less (ie. a competitive sum) and the world would benefit from more of her "quality" production.
Yes, piracy hurts certain small businesses, but it serves the greater good of adjusting an overvalued market. | |
| | amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| emusic "I guarantee you that if Apple, MS, etc. even reduced the cost of their songs to 50 cents (vs. 99 cents or more) they would more than double the number of songs sold and therefore eat into piracy."
well, one site has: EMUSIC.
All you people commented tons about the Russian site, but nobody bothers to mentin a LEGAL site that charges as little as $.25/song??? VBR MP3's that also have NO DRM!!!
Astounding.
Oh, and for reference, Streaming audio from the likes of Rhapsody pay out 1 cent per stream. I think the per track is something like 80% of the total (in Rhapsody's case, it's $.89/song if you're a subscriber) leaving maybe a 1/4 of that to the artist.
Besides everyone wanting their stuff for free, the real problem is broken, cumbersome DRM that the old fogey's think are "protecting" their "assets" from "theives" who would "never" pay a dime. ...I think if itunes deserves any mention, it's because they proved that people will buy anything if they think it's "cool" and that they're helping the artist (not very much!).
EMUSIC also did. Rhapsody also did. Napster is on the verge of being bought out again because not only does their software kind of suck, but many still associate them with piracy, or don't know that they still exist...
The best way out of the mess the industry has gotten into, is to fully embrace a service like eMusic, and offer more freedoms with services like Rhapsody.
If they'd outright sell a song for super cheap, with no DRM, it's BEEN FRACKING PROVEN that people love it. If the subscriptions would also do away with it, at least on the "to go" part and just say "here's your music you paid to rent, now go play it on your portable, we don't care" things would work out much better.
...I think this is a great article on EMUSIC.
»www.techdirt.com/articles/200607···06.shtml
Go read it, then come back here and post. I'm sick of hearing about that penny site overseas that does no good for our economy, our talent, but makes those guys rich... | |
| |
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: emusic said by amungus :"I guarantee you that if Apple, MS, etc. even reduced the cost of their songs to 50 cents (vs. 99 cents or more) they would more than double the number of songs sold and therefore eat into piracy." well, one site has: EMUSIC. All you people commented tons about the Russian site, but nobody bothers to mentin a LEGAL site that charges as little as $.25/song??? VBR MP3's that also have NO DRM!!! Astounding. It is, indeed - because EMUSIC REQUIRES A SUBSCRIPTION, NOT A SIMPLE MUSIC STORE.
quote:
Oh, and for reference, Streaming audio from the likes of Rhapsody pay out 1 cent per stream. I think the per track is something like 80% of the total (in Rhapsody's case, it's $.89/song if you're a subscriber) leaving maybe a 1/4 of that to the artist.
Besides everyone wanting their stuff for free, the real problem is broken, cumbersome DRM that the old fogey's think are "protecting" their "assets" from "theives" who would "never" pay a dime. ...I think if itunes deserves any mention, it's because they proved that people will buy anything if they think it's "cool" and that they're helping the artist (not very much!).
EMUSIC also did. Rhapsody also did. Napster is on the verge of being bought out again because not only does their software kind of suck, but many still associate them with piracy, or don't know that they still exist...
The best way out of the mess the industry has gotten into, is to fully embrace a service like eMusic, and offer more freedoms with services like Rhapsody.
If they'd outright sell a song for super cheap, with no DRM, it's BEEN FRACKING PROVEN that people love it. If the subscriptions would also do away with it, at least on the "to go" part and just say "here's your music you paid to rent, now go play it on your portable, we don't care" things would work out much better.
...I think this is a great article on EMUSIC.
»www.techdirt.com/articles/200607···06.shtml
Go read it, then come back here and post. I'm sick of hearing about that penny site overseas that does no good for our economy, our talent, but makes those guys rich...
Nieither any of "our" sites does any good to "our" talent.
You sound like somebody with no clue how international corporations like parasite studios of America work... | |
| | | amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| Re: emusic well, I'm no expert. you got me there. ok, so they do want a subscription, but you can cancel...
clueless though, not entirely
an indie artist can however, make a buck off of sites like emusic, Rhapsody etc. once they get their music on there. CDBABY, for instance, cuts you a check once you surpass $20 or so worth of sales...
»cdbaby.net/
...explains the way they work...
»cdbaby.net/dd-partners
...lists their digital partners...
As for slamming the allofyourmp3basearebelongtorussia site so much, maybe it is a good setup as far as layout and ease of use...
but even if it is technically legal (over there, NOT here!), it doesn't seem right, and I don't see any of their info showing up on say, CDBABY's site... hence, I wouldn't want them selling my works if I never saw a dime from it.
...likely that's all I'd make from the sale of several albums after they get paid... wasn't it like $.01/song??? say a 10 song cd, $.08/album goes to whoever they pay, you get 80% of that (indie figures here...). It would take TONS of album sales through them to even make 1 U.S. Dollar... That is, IF IF IF they are even close to reputable and actually end up somehow paying anything back to the artist...
agree that emusic isn't a simple store, and perhaps it's not the best, but when I tried it, I was amazed at how cheap it was for DRM free, VBR mp3's that sounded better than Rhapsody's OR iTunes downloads, and had no restrictions...
all I'm saying is that it seems like they're overlooked by the media. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: emusic said by amungus :well, I'm no expert. you got me there. ok, so they do want a subscription, but you can cancel... clueless though, not entirely Ok, I admit that.
an indie artist can however, make a buck off of sites like emusic, Rhapsody etc. once they get their music on there. CDBABY, for instance, cuts you a check once you surpass $20 or so worth of sales... » cdbaby.net/...explains the way they work... » cdbaby.net/dd-partners...lists their digital partners...
I'm on the internet all day long yet I never heard of it.
As for slamming the allofyourmp3basearebelongtorussia site so much, maybe it is a good setup as far as layout and ease of use...
Certainly...
but even if it is technically legal (over there, NOT here!), it doesn't seem right,
???
and I don't see any of their info showing up on say, CDBABY's site... Umm like what? I'm not following you... why should AoMP3 look like cdbaby...?
hence, I wouldn't want them selling my works if I never saw a dime from it.
Well that's you, I guess - I would want to put my work as many stores as I can so I will have a bigger chance I can catch somebody's 'ears'.
...likely that's all I'd make from the sale of several albums after they get paid... wasn't it like $.01/song??? say a 10 song cd, $.08/album goes to whoever they pay, you get 80% of that (indie figures here...). It would take TONS of album sales through them to even make 1 U.S. Dollar... That is, IF IF IF they are even close to reputable and actually end up somehow paying anything back to the artist...
Again: according to Russian laws they *have* to pay to the local arm of the int'l artist 'representative' organisation - means parasites. It's the law there, it's not up for a debate.
I agree that emusic isn't a simple store, and perhaps it's not the best, but when I tried it, I was amazed at how cheap it was for DRM free, VBR mp3's that sounded better than Rhapsody's OR iTunes downloads, and had no restrictions...
all I'm saying is that it seems like they're overlooked by the media.
I agree, they deserve much more attention but I don't like subscriptions.
Seriously, that's my beef with most of these US stores besides their DRM'ed, compressed craptastic formats.
I want very basic things:
- DRM-free, non-limited files/formats
- freedom of choice: uncompressed/compressed formats/codecs
- SIZE/TRAFFIC-based flat pricing (I can buy something for cheaper if I don't need it in 320k or flac) with discounted albums (ie 10x $0.50 apiece song of an album should be $4 instead of $5 so I'll be tempted to buy whole albums.)
That's all I want. And AoMP3 perfectly serves my needs - in fact I spent hunderds over there during past few years (I was a very early user and I usually buy whole albums, even if I only know one song) - besides the thousands I spent on Amazon, eBay, Musicstack.com or Secondspin buying vinyls and CDs. | |
| | | | | amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| Re: emusic and I don't see any of their info showing up on say, CDBABY's site...
Umm like what? I'm not following you... why should AoMP3 look like cdbaby...?
CDBaby has partners who will sell your music, they (cdbaby) collect, then pay you directly, every week (if you make money)
»cdbaby.net/dd-partners
check that link out...
...the aomp3 folks are not on that list...
understandable that you don't want to subscribe, I think there are enough things to subscribe to out there like cable tv, internet, etc. etc. etc.
..To me, Rhapsody's still worth the subscription for streaming music. Hey, some people play to game (WoW, etc.), I pay to listen to music
"- DRM-free, non-limited files/formats
- freedom of choice: uncompressed/compressed formats/codecs"
...I hear ya there. I'm still also a fan of VINYL ...and lossless audio... I think that should seriously be sold online.. especially if they want to sell "cd quality" audio, then DO IT! We have the technology to represent like that... I agree that there should be more choice, especially for lossless quality. I might even go for WMA lossless, if it weren't DRM'd | |
| 
Brianv5
Low Level Functionary
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Keyser, WV | Can we not mention the bittorrent sites? No need to paint a bullseye on the sites we like to get our content from. We know what they are, don't advertise to the fuzz and noobs.
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Its not a bug.. Its a "feature" | |
| | jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS | Re: Can we not mention the bittorrent sites? That's like saying don't tell them that there are fish in the sea.
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Bush bashing is old. How about more solutions instead? | |
| | 
FiL
Premium
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD
2 edits | "No comment except BBR seems to advocate piracy and felonious actions to "stick it to the man."
your "non comment", or downplaying of your following statement speaks volumes in regards to your ignorance of the BBR community and how it "thinks" and what it advocates.
BBR advocates above all else fair and reasonable access, online time, troubleshooting of said connections by yourself with help from the community...etc.
Nowhere on the board can you find the "pirates forum" or anything like that. The reason a lot of us have such harsh words for the AA's is because of the crap they make the end user go through without EVER hitting the target of their "eternal struggle" to combat piracy.
I mean come on, suing a dead person?
Felonious huh? Why is it then that you partake in conversations where felons prowl?
lol.
"Bittorrent traffic is 90% illegal."
Where the hell you getting the end all stats from Rachel? God himself? I thought Bill Gate's merged with him so your prolly pulling numbers out-ya-ass...links please?
Generalizations suck ass and you know it. Try being more specific with such broad accusations...name name's, we all wanna see a fight!
As for the pirating thing...if it ain't broke, will they stop pirating?
Hell no. Isn't it the 2nd oldest profession along side prostitution? Its damn near become an institution itself, so targeting Grandma Gertrude's Packard Bell seems kinda redundant to me.
They've yet to come up with a concrete plan to stop pirates... but their batting 1.ooo in the "piss everyone off" category. A shame.
"The entertainment market is broken and piracy is the invisible hand of free economy moving to fix it."
My thoughts exactly! | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| Re: Can we not mention the bittorrent sites? said by FiL :"No comment except BBR seems to advocate piracy and felonious actions to "stick it to the man."your "non comment", or downplaying of your following statement speaks volumes in regards to your ignorance of the BBR community and how it "thinks" and what it advocates. snip: "The entertainment market is broken and piracy is the invisible hand of free economy moving to fix it."My thoughts exactly! well said
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I have an imaginary friend, and his name is God. | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | I don't think it's a secret that Pirate Bay exists. They've already been raided thanks to pressure from the U.S., survived, and actually grew larger... | |
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TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL
1 edit |  We Want Quality Production Too
Or else we are back to the Pirates. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Nice thing about Piracy ... ... is that it does give content providers something to think about.
If there was no piracy, they could just force more crap on you, and force you to pay for it. With Piracy around, it's at least a reminder that it's better business to provide a quality product, because if you try and force people to pay for crap, well, they might still take your crap, but not pay you anything for it.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
| 
TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
·Sprint Broadband D..
| Stealing, not stealing... All almost peripheral to the discussion. What hasn't happened(as pointed out so capably, years ago, by record producer Jimmy Iovine...) is that the music industry and the also, the movie industry, has been slow and less-than-effective in embracing the promise of the Internet as a distribution medium. Add to that their practice of alienating customers by suing anything that comes into their sites(well, not actually suing, more like a mafia protection racket works...you know: extortion) and you have a sales and marketing nightmare, for that little extra je ne sais quoi.
And why has this happened in this manner, you might ask?
Dumb decisions, way too many lawyers at the top of record companies and movie companies(who tend to come down on the side of what they know: litigation as revenue stream), and a real and demonstrable contempt for customers or potential customers.
Sure, the historical loss of revenues by the entertainment industry over the last twenty years or so can be tied to competition from a lot of other economic areas that vie for the historically falling disposable incomes of people, but that isn't the only thing in play here. In the past, music and movies did well, even in much worse economies. Bad decisions, talentless and unimaginative executives, too few "John Hammonds", crap product and customer alienation are also in play here in a big way.
But most of all, the real decision makers did not and do not, and seemingly refuse to, grok The Internet. | |
|
dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Ya know what's odd? Sales of these DVDs and CDs are up!
So, these clowns are bitching that sales aren't up enough? WTF Chuck?
People are spending millions(literally) on physical media... and the asshats are still bitching!
As for music, I am quite burned out on music overall, not to mention VERY little new music entices me - to buy *OR* download!
Most of the new movies suck! LMAO!
Not wasting my bandwidth on some crappy remake of an old ass movie or the "new" crap movies they're producing.
Seeing as my monthly(to date) bandwidth usage has an all time high of 26.59GB downloaded(back in June), you can tell I'm not downloading alot of anything.
There just isn't anything that is worth my time to watch or bandwidth to download! DUH!
Of course, we all know(should at least) that downloading isn't really the problem.
Street corner sales in OTHER COUNTRIES is what's hitting their pocketbooks.
Not alot they can do in those places though... so they try and tag "losses" on the casual downloader here in The States.
Wake the hell up!
This applies to the Anti-Pirate zealots that post here, and all the sheeple that believe these inflated statistics slapped out there by the xxAAs.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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FiL
Premium
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD
1 edit | Re: Ya know what's odd? thats what im saying!
"People are spending millions(literally) on physical media... and the asshats are still bitching!"
Their getting their pay, doubled. But the money machine is always hungry.
And these are the companies were supposed to have some kind of loyalty towards???
Honor Code? I will not share any media from one of the 5 companies that own everything on Earth? Is that the correct pledge were 'sposed to take?
In South Korea for example, theres guys that "re-create" the popular Jordan shoes, fully customized to whatever your specs are, made in their own basements. A sort of reseller, cuase once you buy one shoe, you'll have an impulse to buy again in stores. I see this as the same thing as getting my music on-line. Hi quality stuff you'd NEVER get from a major manufacturer cuase their to busy cutting corner; 2 dollars here means 12million in yearly profits if you omit the shoe laces! lol.
The music industry first needs to find a way to justify this witch hunt, otherwise it's just making the pirates wanna pirate any and everything they get their hands on.
Pay the artist a just wage...
Second, give the CONSUMER, the reason WHY YOUR EVEN IN BUSINESS MAKING MONEY FOR SONS NEW FERRARI, a quality product.
Is that so hard? As the old adage goes, throw money at the problem. Their doing that alright, but eve then they eFF that up. Throw some pennies to the artist's, I mean damn! | |
| |
Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| But they aren't up as much as they would be if piracy were completely eliminated....
*bwahahaha*
Sorry. Thought I could say that with a straight face. I don't know how the MPAA/RIAA do it.
Seriously though, when CD sales were going down and the RIAA was complaining about it, I didn't feel sorry for them because:
1. They were coming off of a multi-year record setting trend upwards. Since when are they guaranteed to have a record setting year every year?
2. The economy was in recession. People had less money to spend. If your income dropped, would you stop buying CDs or stop buying food?
3. There were more choices for the consumers' entertainment dollar. Time was you could spend your entertainment dollars on an album or by going to a movie. (Sure there were other options, but let's simplify matters by just looking at those.) Now you can buy a CD or go to a movie, but you can also buy a DVD, buy a game, subscribe to a MMPORG, spend extra for premium cable channels, subscribe to a web-based entertainment service (e.g. NetFlix), etc. There are a lot more players competing for your entertainment dollar today than in the past. So naturally less of that entertainment dollar will go to CDs.
4. They were shipping less CDs. Yes, they actually reduced how many CDs they shipped and then complained about how they sold less CDs!
5. The CDs they shipped weren't high quality acts/songs. This is highly subjective, but I've heard it said by enough other people to figure that it was a wide group of people thinking this and not just me.
6. The CDs they did ship were high priced. This is kind of linked to #3 and #5 but different enough to be on it's own. Why pay $15 for a CD with one or two good songs when you could by a decent movie on DVD for $10? Or when you could get a month of DVD rentals at Netflix?
Of course, the RIAA ignored all of those factors and figured that it must be Internet Piracy. After all, that's the only possible reason that doesn't blame the industry execs or market forces outside their control. | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | Remember people When it's all said and done, it's an internet discussion board, not your mom's honor, or your prom date... | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
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To answer your question hope, no, its not pirating per-se, so yes, you probably won't get in trouble... but who am I to say anything... I've done my my share of wrong doing too.
