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Comments on news posted 2006-11-02 12:05:05: Larry Lessig, NY Times contributor Glenn Fleishman, CNET's Russell Shaw, and Slashdot users all chime in on our recent editorial on the latest telecom think tank effort to have all community run broadband banned.Also adding their opinion to the m.. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next


woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA

1 recommendation

hmmmm......

As I have said before, these munis' are doing this a lot of time because of being ignored and cherry picking. the telcos/cablecos want it banned because it would make them look bad, in that the munis get done what they can't or won't do, and for a fair price. It's all about the money. I am not against capitalism, but if you are being ignored, why can't you fix the problem? Either help or get out of the way. JMT
--
BlooMe


karlmarx

join:2006-09-18
Chicago, IL

Good for Karl!

"but cities and municipalities wiring themselves and providing internet service on their own removes the possibility that these communities will ever be serviced by the market."

that, of course, is where the megacorps are at last telling the truth. They freely admit that some areas are unprofitable, yet they STILL don't want a muni to fill in that gap. If that's not a case of the megacorps whining like a 2 year old, I don't know what is. The megacorps exist to service.. hmm.. the megacorp! the municipality exists to service.. the citizens. Which country do YOU want to live in?
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 10mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs.


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 edit

Non government funded muni-wide systems are OK

Action Institute blogger makes the key point:
quote:
It’s hard to put it any simpler than this: government-run services are not part of “the organic free-market at work.”
There is nothing wrong with muni efforts as long as they aren't backed by taxes and also if the government doesn't give advantages to their endeavor over any private ones.
--
--
My BLOG
My Web Page

EAP

join:2000-01-15
Lafayette Hill, PA

1 recommendation

What private ones. Verizon and the like receive so much support from the gov't via loop holes and regulations, etc. -- they might as well be an arm of the gov't.

These companies aren't "private" in the sense that your local dry cleaners is private.


ieolus
Support The Clecs

join:2001-06-19
Danbury, CT

1 edit
reply to FFH5
How about if the government or a neutral non-service providing company owns the pipes to every home and lets ANY service provider compete and do their thing?

Surely a free marketer like yourself would not object to that?

--
"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp


tsu9

join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL

Obvious

It's really very obvious: Muniband is taking business away from corporations that have not built into the area due to the area not being profitable enough. All of the funds collected and used by the municpalities for this purpose are misspent and should obviously be going towards the companies that aren't building in., just in case they eventually decide to support those areas sometime in the next several decades.

It's just natural selection that some cities and/or areas aren't built up. If they don't like it, they should move!

(the above should not be taken seriously)
--
"You do not secure the liberty of our country and value of our democracy by undermining them, that's the road to hell." - Lord Phillips of Sudbury.


Raptor
Not a Dumptruck

join:2001-10-21
London, ON
Reviews:
·Rogers Hi-Speed

1 recommendation

Action Institute Hits the Nail on the Head

"...broadband black holes have always existed....They just haven’t been noticable [sic] until broadband was invented."
I do believe that is the conclusion of a 3 year old.

Touché Action Institute. Perhaps less time spent on your organization's slogan, a little more on your paramount conclusions.
--
....where's my fiber?


CPM
Broadband, DSL, cable

join:2001-08-24
Brooklyn, NY
reply to FFH5

Re: Non government funded muni-wide systems are OK

Hold it. read this. »1Mbps Wireless Chicago


morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000

2 edits
reply to Raptor

Re: Action Institute Hits the Nail on the Head


it's some type of logical fallacy.

it's making my head spin trying to figure out if this guy is truly an idiot.


Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

1 recommendation

reply to karlmarx

Re: Good for Karl!

Exactly. "We won't provide you with service and we don't want you coming up with an alternate means of getting service as it might impact future profits of ours should we ever decide on entering your area."

bradleym

join:2002-08-05
Peoria, IL
Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..

1 recommendation

My favorite quote

"Despite Bode’s claims, there’s no real inconsistency here. And the fact that a current area may not be a profitable market for broadband provision does not mean that it will not be so in the future...but cities and municipalities wiring themselves and providing internet service on their own removes the possibility that these communities will ever be serviced by the market."

This is my favorite quote. Plenty of little towns here in the sticks still have co-op telephone and electric service, and the megacorps have no interest in competing with them for a few relatively low-margin customers. These providers are actually beacons of innovation, and provide these services at extremely competitive rates. I guess we should be lamenting the fact that there will never be 'market service' out here. My point is that most of these co-ops were started under government initiatives like the REA, and there is no reason that similar programs shouldn't exist to 'wire' poor or under-served areas with broadband Internet access. Getting a nationwide policy like the REA passed is totally infeasible, so why shouldn't municipalities take on these projects themselves?

P.S. it's the Acton institute, as opposed to Action Institute!

reply to FFH5

The Incumbents are also backed by taxes...

and subsidies, and right of way, and exclusive franchises, etc...

Which makes you point not wrong, but irrelevant.

In other words, the telcos are fine with big brother (when it suits them).


ftthz
If love can kill hate can also save

join:2005-10-17

wild wild west

... wonders what would happen if we took rural areas as the frontier land where rugged individualism was the rule... meaning if they want something done and no one else will do it they will do it themselves.

89707828

join:2006-10-24
Chicago, IL
reply to bradleym

Re: My favorite quote

Many of those customer-owned telephone co-ops are doing quite well, and provide competitive broadband (and even cable TV) service to their market areas, which tend to be really out in the sticks as opposed to some sprawling fungus of suburban McMansions filled with whiny spoiled brats out on the edge of an urbanized area.

89707828

join:2006-10-24
Chicago, IL
reply to ieolus

Re: Non government funded muni-wide systems are OK

How do you plan to support that? Are you ready to pay the true, non-subsidized cost of delivering the service?


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
reply to EAP
Could you post some specific evidence of that? It's not that I'm doubting you, but it's all rhetoric until the proof arrives.

NV
--
Abortion: Improves the Gene Pool!

EAP

join:2000-01-15
Lafayette Hill, PA
Yes I can.

How about this for starters:

»Picture Perfect Deal

This was done due to Verizon having the state politicians in their pocket.

And this:

»www.freepress.net/news/5593

They get special laws passed just for them. How bogus is that. They wine and dine the politicians (which is really bribing them) in exchange for laws just for them.

EAP

join:2000-01-15
Lafayette Hill, PA
reply to Noah Vail
How about this:

»www.savetheinternet.com/blog/200···-telcos/

Why would a Senator do this? Cause the big telcos buy them (ummm, I mean lobby).


operagost

join:1999-08-02
Spring City, PA
reply to Raptor

Re: Action Institute Hits the Nail on the Head

Touché indeed. BBR saw fit to [sic] "noticable", but wrote "ACTON Institute" as "ACTION Institute." And you didn't realize that, because instead of RTFA you moved quickly to insult the blogger based on a quote taken out of context.


morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
Reviews:
·Charter
said by operagost:

And you didn't realize that, because instead of RTFA you moved quickly to insult the blogger based on a quote taken out of context.
did you read the article? the quote would probably make MORE sense if it was taken out of context (but it wasn't).


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
reply to EAP

Re: Non government funded muni-wide systems are OK

Thanks, I'll read them.

NV


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Deliberately Confusing

Incumbents telegraph and cable companies are not banning towns from wiring themselves. They are simply lobbying to ensure that no state or local government wastes taxpayer money on providing broadband.

If people in these towns want broadband, there is nothing stopping them from pooling their own money and forming their own private venture to deploy broadband.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.


morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
Reviews:
·Charter

1 edit
said by pnh102:

They are simply lobbying to ensure that no state or local government wastes taxpayer money on providing broadband.
in effect, banning towns from wiring themselves.


Raptor
Not a Dumptruck

join:2001-10-21
London, ON
Reviews:
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to operagost

Re: Action Institute Hits the Nail on the Head

Either there Captain Assumption. I tend to read the article, and then when I'm posting, my auto-quotes and quick reference data comes from the snippet that is posted above my reply.

Either that, or you could just as easily accuse Karl of not 'RTFA' and just throwing it up on BBR.

At least I commented on the article.
It was a valid point on my part that it made no sense. And seemed to be focused as a primary argument.

If anything, Action Institute sounds cooler, and more 'we get things done'-ish.
--
....where's my fiber?


tsu9

join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL
reply to operagost
Are you unfamiliar with proper documentation within quotations?


tsu9

join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL
reply to morbo

Re: Deliberately Confusing

And thus, from obtaining any hope of service.


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
said by tsu9:

And thus, from obtaining any hope of service.
How?

Again. Nothing is stopping private individuals from using their own money to provide themselves with broadband. Banning the government from building a broadband network has no impact on private individuals from doing the same.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.


batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
reply to woody7

Re: hmmmm......

said by woody7:

As I have said before, these munis' are doing this a lot of time because of being ignored and cherry picking.
They are not ignored by broadband providers. The two-bit political hacks are just pandering to their contributers and making tax payers foot the bill. Even the 1/2 that don't want or care about computers have to pay so business can have cheep broadband. That leaves more money to send political hacks to Hawaii on *fact finding* trips.


batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

Bigger and smarter.

If the people insist on things that The Phone Company feels will prevent them from making money The Phone Company won't do it. You want *Net Neutrality* so Microsoft and other giants can supply HD TV without the hassle of bribing every small town political hack and paying to run the cable? Good, The Phone Companies will not offer speeds fast enough for third party leaches to send HD porn.

If you want a socialist Broadband Network you better shell out $300 billion in tax dollars to run it. Private enterprise and their owners/share holders are not going to do it.


karlmarx

join:2006-09-18
Chicago, IL

1 recommendation

reply to pnh102

Re: Deliberately Confusing

Ummm.. the government is composed of private individuals. At least in the blue states that is. See, I am a citizen of my town. My town provides me with services I deem necessary. My town provides me with electricity through a MUNICIPAL power plant (at a 40% savings vs the next town over that uses a CORPORATE power plant). My town voted for, and approved the rollout of a fiber network to every home in town. We, the 'private citizens' chose to use the government to represent us. The fact that it's the government has no bearing, because we, the private individuals decided as a group we wanted broadband. The only LOSER in my town, of course, is comcast, who didn't want to wire the town in the first place. But comcast isn't a citizen of my town, so we tell comcast to go F*CK themselves.
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 10mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs.