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Comments on news posted 2006-12-15 11:08:43: Op/Ed Verizon shares are falling, and it's believed that investor nervousness about Fios deployment investment is the reason. ..

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Titus
Mr Gradenko

join:2004-06-26
kudos:1

Is it really short sighted investors?

or do these investors know something about future economic conditions that average Joe doesn't?
--
"I am not young enough to know everything."
Oscar Wilde


knightmb
Everybody Lies

join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN

1 edit

BPL is still here somehow?

And Fios is going to die? Heck, can't ever get BPL to die and Fios actually works. Too much money in Fios, I think not.

flankspeed8

join:2001-07-20
Hastings, MN

This is complete and utter BS

Verizon shares are only $3 off their 52 week high and about $6 off their 52 week low. These dumb ass analysts need to come to sites like this and see how happy people are with their Fios connection. This is complete BS. I am a Verizon shareholder and the ONLY thing keeping me in this stock is the hope of a pay-off in the future. Until then I will collect my %4.5 dividend and feel good everytime I read a glowing review here.


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

2 recommendations

Investor is an Idiot

Verizon's management knows that unless they move to an infrastructure that they fully own and control, that they are doomed. Verizon has no incentive to build out copper to expand DSL deployments because CLECs would be able to use these investments for free. Fiber is a whole different ball game though. They can build it to wherever they want (preferably to the most profitable areas) without fears of competing companies freeloading off of this infrastructure.

Comcast was killing Verizon in the broadband game because Comcast had built out service to areas to which Verizon would not provide DSL. Investors need to understand that FIOS is not some sort of "luxury toy technology" but it is the only way Verizon is going to remain relevant and survive in the 21st century.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

Cyber2lz

join:2001-11-15
Odessa, FL

Myopic Investors

If V* did not do this bold move they would eventually just fade away. At least they bit the bullet and made a commitment.(unlike the other telcos) I'm happy with my FiOS.
--
The Light Pipe is the Right Pipe !!!


Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1
reply to flankspeed8

Re: This is complete and utter BS

said by flankspeed8:

Verizon shares are only $3 off their 52 week high and about $6 off their 52 week low. These dumb ass analysts need to come to sites like this and see how happy people are with their Fios connection. This is complete BS. I am a Verizon shareholder and the ONLY thing keeping me in this stock is the hope of a pay-off in the future. Until then I will collect my %4.5 dividend and feel good everytime I read a glowing review here.
And I think that's where their issue lies, they don't want hope, they want guaranteed payoff and as I can see, they aren't seeing it right now.


JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD

1 edit

MCMD Isn't Lit Yet

I think by mid 2007, investors will see the light.

btw - are there any market-by-market comparisons around?


aaa

@nycboe.org

Wow

This guy sounds like an idiot.

b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA

This guy is either a moron...

Or he is trying to pump his Comcast stock and short Verizon.


N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to flankspeed8

Re: This is complete and utter BS

Those articles are written mostly for day traders.

Investors buy and hold stocks that will move over the long term. Sure, the day traders will sell, but the investors will hold this one.

As you said, the stock carries a %4.5 dividend, and is a solid company. Institutionals also love stocks that pay a dividend. I see them holding VZ over the long term.

I don't see Verizon slowing fiber deployment at this point. Seidenberg knew from go that FiOS deployment would impact the stock price, and so far the impact is small considering the coin they're laying out. It took a lot of balls to go in the direction they did, I don't think a few bucks here or there on the price is going to make them balk.

I hope the stock would drop some more, I would love to pick up a couple shares on the 52 week low and let it sit....
--
Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy

UofMiamiGrad
Premium
join:2001-02-03
Great Neck, NY

WTF!!

Last time I checked VZ is $1 away from it's 52 week high and has been going up steadily since July. Please spare us this sky is falling crap. Sell the stock if one thinks so and put your money elsewhere. This is not a dotcom stock and not going to jump $30 in a day like Google.


N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2
reply to b10010011

Re: This guy is either a moron...

said by b10010011:

Or he is trying to pump his Comcast stock and short Verizon.
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! You're giving away his secret!

"But you're giving away our best secrets!"

"Mr. POTATO HEAD, MR POTATO HEAD, Back doors are NOT secrets."

..."What's a back door?"
--
Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy

NuAlphaMan

join:2006-08-07
Bowie, MD

Foolishness!

If anyone thought this was going to be an overnight process, that was sheer foolishness. For them (telcos) to be competitive, they need this type of upgrade. Copper is an old and quickly becoming an obsolescent technology. This has to be looked at from a long term point of view. This change will breed competition amongst the various providers (cable & telcos) and will be good for everyone!


MadMANN3
Premium
join:2005-08-19
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to flankspeed8

Re: This is complete and utter BS

said by flankspeed8:

Verizon shares are only $3 off their 52 week high and about $6 off their 52 week low. These dumb ass analysts need to come to sites like this and see how happy people are with their Fios connection. This is complete BS. I am a Verizon shareholder and the ONLY thing keeping me in this stock is the hope of a pay-off in the future. Until then I will collect my %4.5 dividend and feel good everytime I read a glowing review here.
Well, not ALL reviews are glowing:

»[northeast] I'm tired of Verizon FIOS BS!

»Verizon order "on hold" because they didn't lay the fiber?

»Is this typical of Fios tech suppt?

»Lost order... grrrrrrrrr.

I posted these links to another forum as an example just to show that FIOS has just as many problems as any other service.

However, I do think that they are jumping the gun with this story. To say that they are "doomed" is a little extreme. Even I know that!

One thing is for sure, if Verizon DOESN'T keep doing what they are doing with FIOS, they are sure to bankrupt their POTS system. They are damned either way. They either don't deploy fiber and definitely sink, or they deploy fiber and either become successful or die trying.

Personally, I don't think Verizon is going anywhere as a company. Even if their land services fail, in my opinion, they are the best wireless provider in the market. That in itself could carry them a long way as long as they don't loose their ass to the point of no return with this project.

There's a long road ahead, ck8. But as a human being, notwithstanding my obvious profession, I wish you luck in your financial endeavors. May you retire comfortably!


Staplegun

join:2005-04-20
Flower Mound, TX
reply to NuAlphaMan

Re: Foolishness!

It is foolish. I heard VZ is having huge revenue growth in Texas from FiOS (where they started and have the most deployed)....

cbrain

join:2000-05-21
Silver Spring, MD

1 recommendation

It's just a matter of time

Verizon could be in real trouble when this internet fad dies or people stop watching TV and talking on the phone.


LilYoda
Feline with squirel personality disorder
Premium
join:2004-09-02
Mountains

1 edit

Not surprising

Investors and companies have different goals...

The company wants profit now, but most importantly in the future. Why? because if they don't, they'll just go under.

The investors do not have this burden. Investors want the profit now, but they have the freedom of changing ships almost instantly.

The problem arises when you let large short sighted investor groups become the majority shareholder in your company... Or worse, that your CEO is putting the shareholder's interests before the company. Like when the "CEO of the day" sink a company purposely just to raise the share value, and then moves on to the next one, leaving the failing company to crash down in flames...
--
"the two most abundant things in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity." (Harlan Ellison)

TheOtherPete

join:2001-06-28
Boyds, MD

????

VZ stock doesn't seem to be affected by this "news" today (its up)

For those looking at VZ's stock prices this year, keep in mind that they spun-off Idearc and every VZ shareholder got IAR stock (thus that sudden one day drop in VZ share price about a month ago)

VZ pays a 4.5% dividend and you have the potential for serious capital appreciation (if you believe that FIOS is going to be a long-term success and seriously who doesnt?)

Good luck to anyone who is shorting it.


MadMANN3
Premium
join:2005-08-19
kudos:2
reply to cbrain

Re: It's just a matter of time

said by cbrain:

Verizon could be in real trouble when this internet fad dies or people stop watching TV and talking on the phone.
I smell something. . . .i think it's. . . .yeah. . . .definitely sarcasm!


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

End of Decade?

All this talk of 2010-2015, it's like people think Comcast/MSOs are going to do nothing for the next 3-9 years and let Verizon actually gain ground. LMAO!

Please!
Comcast has been deploying fiber for years, albeit just to the CMTS/headends, but it's there! LOTS of it! A shitload of it!

Seeing as Comcast is serving all 9+ million customers via this fiber while only using white light on that fiber, and even that isn't really being taxed to it's potential... imagine if Comcast decided to start pushing other spectrums of light across all that fiber.

Of course, there will need to be some serious HW upgrades for cable to be able to push insane speeds(either direction), but by 2010? 2015? C'mon!

Just so you all know, Comcast has HFC right in front of my house - LIVE fiber! None of that dark stuff.
For Comcast to hit me with actual FTTH, it wouldn't take a hell of alot of work.

Verizon better start kicking some ass or the investors, no matter how short sighted they may be, will walk!

Even though I personally don't like Verizon, that would be a shame.
Credit where credit is due - at least they are trying!

AT&T? OMG! They're just pathetic! 6mbps max... *if* you are lucky enough to be within range?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


Shamayim
I already have a Messiah.
Premium
join:2002-09-23

FIOS, don't die!

We OOL customers need you to keep the heat on Cablevision!
--
"tick...tick...tick..." »www.jtf.org/

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to cbrain

Re: It's just a matter of time

said by cbrain:

Verizon could be in real trouble when this internet fad dies or people stop watching TV and talking on the phone.
well i hear Verizon is investing in companies that make tubes for when the use of wires for the net is over....
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


Fios Love

@swbell.net
reply to MadMANN3

Who cares? Vz Cash-Flow Alone is Enough

Click for full size
They don't need wall street -- look at their $7 BILLION cash flow! They might need to slow down a little -- but they'll be fine.


Safemaster
Premium
join:2004-01-18
Loxahatchee, FL

Down but not cause investor are scared

That stock has been shorted down from the 37's to the low 33's. Then the shorters bought back to cover.

It ha nothing to do with fios, its just smart experienced traders and hedge funds doing what they do best.

if you look at the chart its on its way back to its high's.


yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Miamisburg, OH
kudos:3

2 recommendations

Buy VZ.

As Verizon shares fall, it becomes a sweeter and sweeter investment for the long-thinking investor. Verizon has cash, over $21b in current assets alone. They didn't enter into the world of fiber ignorant to the whimsy of your everyday Wall Street investor. They knew this would happen, and I am confidant that their business plan took this into account.

For what it's worth, VZ is up since that Street article was published.
--
Wiki Wiki
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge

tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·ooma
·Verizon FiOS

Thank god shareholders don't run day to day operations!

There are loads of short sighted things investors will do to make a buck.. but if you bought share in January 2006, your up about $6, they sky is NOT falling for Verizon. Delaying deployment of the network and holding true to stories of REDLINING, false starts in deployments, arguing with franchises over petty issues, and screwing up in NOT offering reasonable upgrades/improvements in service are a good recipe for failure of the company, and lastly if you didn't already know, when a corporation as large as Verizon files for bankruptcy the whining little girl shareholders get NOTHING for their trouble, not a rusty red cent!!!!!!!!!!!!! Psst! Overspending on WIRELESS is also not a good idea, jackasses!

Let me say this again NOT A FRIGGEN RUSTY RED CENT!!!!!
SO TAKE THAT TO YOUR PORTFOLIO AND SMOKE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, that being said, they wanna whine and complain, go ahead, on investor blogs, keep out of BBR, or reap our wrath!

Want to ride the portfolio rapids, might I suggest day trading in Haliburton, ExxonMobile, Geico Insurance, Banks, GoldFutures, Sony Corporation, Microsoft, Google, etc, etc, etc. Telcos are (supposed to be)regular revenue streams, not bullies scaring people with world politics, the ability to gas up your car, or prevent someone who rearends your lexus from OWNING you like a slave.


thatdood

join:2002-07-03
Plano, TX

Short term vs. Long term

"investors generally aren't keen on Fios, because it lacks immediate returns for their portfolios - even if the long-term FTTH vision (if not FiosTV) is obviously the right one for a phone-turned-data company".

This is a problem that plagues a lot of companies and industries today. Investors have lost focus on the long term and are focusing too much on the short term.


RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1
reply to Titus

Re: Is it really short sighted investors?

said by Titus:

or do these investors know something about future economic conditions that average Joe doesn't?
No, it is the American way. Double digit returns today or else get rid of the executives. And if it means laying off half the working force to get the double digits, then do it. Never mind that the company is forecast to show TRIPLE DIGIT in 5 years, we want ours today, this minute.

This is the real reason China is winning. They do not care if they are getting a couple of percent today, it is still profit. They are building towards having control in 15-20 years and THAT is where they will rake in the returns. Ummm... Bill Gates sort of did the same thing in the DOS and early Windoze days, he wrote restrictive licenses, and then did not enforce them until today when Microsoft pretty much controls the PC software market.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to Titus
said by Titus:

or do these investors know something about future economic conditions that average Joe doesn't?
It appears "the Street" columnist is reading more in to a VZ stock price drop than it warrants. He says that VZ has been dropping since it's October high. But, in fact, since its low on Nov 27 it has been steadily rising.


But you do have a point. And that is that most investors(by volume of shares traded) are institutional investors, pension funds, and mutual funds. And these investors will drop a stock if they don't forecast at least a positive return in the intermediate term. And to some of them, obviously, they don't see Verizon profits so hot for a while. But they can move back in to Verizon later, when they expect Verizon profits to start rising again.

It really isn't the stock market that is the key to whether Verizon is going to stay the course or not on Fios. It is up to top management and whether they can convince the Board of Directors that investing in Fios will have a good ROI in the foreseeable future. If their business plan for Fios is believed, they will get backing by the Board. But if the Board thinks that management hasn't made a good case for getting a good return on Fios capital investments, then Fios could very well be severely slowed down, even if it is not stopped.
--
--
My BLOG
My Web Page


88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

1 recommendation

reply to Titus
said by Titus:

or do these investors know something about future economic conditions that average Joe doesn't?
Yes it is. See in the old days investors invested for the LONG term. Now everyone wants to make a quick buck. And to be honest that's just fantasyland crap someone has fed 99.99% of investors. Did Warren Buffet make his billions by chasing the quick buck? I don't think so. Who smarter, these guys or him?