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Comments on news posted 2007-01-04 16:56:59: If you're planning on using the "Venice Project," a video p2p system being developed by Skype creators Janus Friis and Niklas Zennstrom, you'd (not surprisingly) better plan on finding an ISP that doesn't have bit caps. ..

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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium Member
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA

1 edit

1 recommendation

ColorBASIC

Premium Member

How do they keep customers?

They don't want those customers because the cost of providing them service costs more than they get in revenue. These niche applications aren't used by the majority of customers. Until they are, the cable providers (as I'm not aware of any US DSL providers who have caps) who cap will say good riddance.

When these applications become very popular, then it will be a matter of competitive forces just as price and speed are. I would guess that cable would just charge more for higher cap tiers just as Cox does now, or fork over the money to increase capacity which can get very expensive as we see with Comcast spending nearly $100M in just the Bay area alone for service upgrades (takes a lot of $50 subs to get back $100M).

Another alternative is for ISP's to work behind the scenes to some how throttle that traffic just as some hobble BT traffic now.
Markus4
join:2005-05-27
Middlesboro, KY

Markus4

Member

No video broadband for you!

My ISP, Suddenlink, throttles connections back to 1/4 speed if you download more than 30MB in 10 minutes, so apps such as these will remain more or less useless to me.

For those of us unfortunate enough to be stuck with an ISP which employs such draconian bandwidth limiting measures, the brave new world of broadband video is de facto off limits, unless you purchase a business plan with no caps or throttling in place, just so you can enjoy content aimed at the home user.
brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL

brianiscool

Member

:(

This won't be big in the USA.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2 to Markus4

Premium Member

to Markus4

Re: No video broadband for you!

said by Markus4:

My ISP, Suddenlink, throttles connections back to 1/4 speed if you download more than 30MB in 10 minutes, so apps such as these will remain more or less useless to me.
There goes the Windows service packs.. The whole idea of broadband is to get the larger files faster..

I can see bandwidth caps based on a monthly basis.. but in day parts.. then the broadband is worthless... yes, even for the casual user.

The bottom line is this: increase the available bandwidth once and for all and quit making excuses. Phone is busy lowering the rates of DSL to obtain more customers from dial up and cable users. They claim that they need to control what's going on at the backbone level.

The way I see it, at the expense of all users, phone is being greedy by under pricing their DSL service to make their numbers look good - because it appears that it's the only way they can get 'em.

If they need money, raise the rates to a level where cable is. $45 a month is NOT unreasonable for a good broadband service. (Anything over 1.5 meg at this point.)

People need to bit the bullet and realize that there is still much investment that needs to be made in the infrastructure of the internet.

If they would simply collect the money, invest into more available bandwidth including routers, switches, etc.. then we don't need to be treating the data transfer like gas prices. Further, these monthly, daily, and hourly bandwidth caps become non-existent.

Why are they doing all this capping at this point? Because they can.
amungus
Premium Member
join:2004-11-26
America

amungus to Markus4

Premium Member

to Markus4
wow, that has to be the WORST capping I've ever heard of!

...I'd like to see if Cox would mess with 'em...
I'm no heavy downloader, but limiting to 1/4 after such a small amount is absurd...

Least it sounds like this video quality could be quite good!

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 edit

FFH5 to ColorBASIC

Premium Member

to ColorBASIC

Re: How do they keep customers?

Yes, and the upload bandwidth of a P2P video system is the killer for cable systems. They could live with the bandwidth of straight downloads of videos if they don't get too frequent. But the P2P mechanism described here that results in a megabyte of upload for every 3 megabytes of download would be a show-stopper.

They will create their own video download ventures before they allow a product like Venice to flourish. They will drop customers that use this before allowing it to spread.

Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium Member
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL

Michieru2 to fiberguy2

Premium Member

to fiberguy2

Re: No video broadband for you!

So in short, you are saying for the ISP's to provide more capacity, right?

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

dadkins

MVM

Beta Testers?

Hook a download wannabe up with one of these "Beta Tokens"!!!

I'll take it for a test-thrash... got a new machine with over 120GB of free space wasting away!

Wonder if there is any HD... PM me if ya have a spare invite.

Raptor
Not a Dumptruck
join:2001-10-21
London, ON

Raptor

Member

Calculatron

"One hour of viewing is 320MB downloaded and 105 Megabytes uploaded, which means that it will exhaust a 1 Gigabyte cap in 10 hours."

One Hour = 320MB+105MB = 425MB
10 Hours = 4250MB = 4.15 GB
Or if you like math, to achieve 1GB (1024MB) = 2.41 Hours @ 425MB/hr

So, it's more like 2hr 25min per GB.
Even worse!
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2 to Michieru2

Premium Member

to Michieru2

Re: No video broadband for you!

No...

The back bone carriers.
rbrugman
join:2002-09-22
Marquette, MI

rbrugman

Member

Charter

This may be the one and only time that I will be happy to be a Charter customer. So far, I can download torrents at 5Mb/sec all day and night and they don't say anything. Maybe that's because they know their speeds are already less than everyone else and they want to keep customers?
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to Markus4

Premium Member

to Markus4

Re: No video broadband for you!

install any MMORPG from CD/DVD and you would break that 30 megs just patching.

DaSneaky1D
what's up
MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou

DaSneaky1D to fiberguy2

MVM

to fiberguy2
A cable company could buy a zillion OC-768's if they wanted to have enough bandwidth for you. The backbone provider has nothing to do with anything capacity related.

Cable companies will just need to open their wallets a little more...and so will you.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to Markus4

Premium Member

to Markus4
a company the size of comcast if they wanted to would just buy the backbone provider itself.

ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

ninjatutle to Markus4

Member

to Markus4
I wonder what they'll do to you once they find your talking smack about them on an online forum

Throttle you back to 56k speeds
Markus4
join:2005-05-27
Middlesboro, KY

Markus4 to Kearnstd

Member

to Kearnstd
I've been throttled many times downloading game patches and the like. Cripes, I got throttled viewing a lot of large images on NASA's website.
Markus4

Markus4 to ninjatutle

Member

to ninjatutle
said by ninjatutle:

I wonder what they'll do to you once they find your talking smack about them on an online forum

Throttle you back to 56k speeds
This is actually something that has crossed my mind, though I'd hate to think the powers-that-be at Suddenlink would be so petty. Who knows, though?

Regardless, I don't consider it talking smack as what I said in my initial post was the straight truth. My Suddenlink broadband connection is only "broad" in small spurts. Look at DSLReport's Suddenlink forum, »Suddenlink, to see some real smack talking.
devnuller
join:2006-06-10
Cambridge, MA

devnuller to rbrugman

Member

to rbrugman

Re: Charter

No, it is because they have not found you yet. I can't think of any provider that wants a non-profitable customer like you. The more people like you, the more likely providers will go to a pay / bit model similar to how ISPs changed to 95%ile billing back in the 90's moving away from all-you-can-eat T1s and T3s.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2 to DaSneaky1D

Premium Member

to DaSneaky1D

Re: No video broadband for you!

THe cost of providing broadband is largely related to the cost of getting the internet carried from A to B.. ie: the backbone and who's going to carry it.

When the backbone gets congested, the price of using that line becomes more expensive.. Phone has the throughput from the home to the CO.. .get on the cloud and it can be busy.. they need to open up those paths..

There was a user that posted exactly why the cost of the backbone is justified. It's the amount of equipment, the switches, routers, and the lines themselves. If those are upgraded and paid for, then capacity is not an issue and the caps can be higher.

Take a good look at Australia and why they are one country with some of the WORST internet pricing. Maybe that will explain better. They only have so much going from AU to the rest of the world and it comes at a premium.

damath
@swbell.net

damath

Anon

low bit rate

SO 430 Mbytes/hr

= 2560 Mbit/hr

= 43.666 Mbit/min

= .711 mbit/sec

So, this is either pretty low resolution video or a really bad quality encode.

To compare, the IPTV people are encoding 640x480 video at around 2.4 mbit/sec.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

1 edit

dadkins

MVM

Never seen a good XviD, have you?
I have full movies that fit on a single CD(~700MB) that look great!

No idea... yet, what they are encoding the video at or what codecs are being used, but it *IS* possible to have decent quality in small packages.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536 to Markus4

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to Markus4

Re: No video broadband for you!

said by Markus4:

My ISP, Suddenlink, throttles connections back to 1/4 speed if you download more than 30MB in 10 minutes, so apps such as these will remain more or less useless to me.

For those of us unfortunate enough to be stuck with an ISP which employs such draconian bandwidth limiting measures, the brave new world of broadband video is de facto off limits, unless you purchase a business plan with no caps or throttling in place, just so you can enjoy content aimed at the home user.
Suddenlink is the old cebridge. that doesn't surprise me one bit they'd FAP you.
raccettura0
join:2002-09-28
USA

raccettura0

Member

Bandwith worth it

It may sound like a lot of bandwidth... but it's totally worth it. The quality is extremely good for streaming video. And pretty fast buffer time using Comcast.
peerimpact
join:2005-11-07
Londonderry, VT

1 edit

peerimpact

Member

Its not p2p that's scaring your ISP

Telcos and Cable companies wont like the Venice project because it competes with their TV/VOD content and The Venice Project is advertising supported .

Viacom already has plenty of its content on the Venice project with MTV clips and shows and other networks will have their content on the Venice Project when its no longer a project and has a different name .

Go look at the Screenshots .

»www.theveniceproject.com ··· enshots/

Its a full screen app with lots of overlays kinda like Apple Frontrow ,With RSS Feeds and Jabber Chat (Gtalk also)
There's also search and a whole lot of other plugins .the client is built on Mozilla XUL platform and Native Mac and Linux clients are being developed .

The Venice Project is not perfect and thier a bugs and improvements needed but they are listening to their users who are helping develop what may be the future of TV for the always on connected generation .

Trinijoy
Premium Member
join:2005-09-12
Brick, NJ

Trinijoy

Premium Member

Lawsuit...Lawsuit...Lawsuit...Lawsuit

Here comes the law suits...
Here comes the law suits...

Here comes the law suits with the Groom at her side!
peerimpact
join:2005-11-07
Londonderry, VT

peerimpact

Member

The Lawsuits from TVP when the ISPs try and block their streams you mean .

All content on The Venice Project is authorized by the content owners and only a portion of the stream is stored encrypted on a users hard drive .

AnonProxy
Premium Member
join:2001-05-12

AnonProxy

Premium Member

Very simple

When video on download really becomes a service to be recconed with. ISP's will partner with an "approved vendor" / business partner. To that end if you purchase the "approved" service (for an "approved price that makes them a nice profit) the downloads from their vendor will NOT count towards your monthly cap.

They will make up some BS about it being hosted locally, not costing bandwidth cost over the Internet but being routed over their private Intranet. Bla bla bla

People still don't get that bandwidth control really has nothing to do with existing network infrastructure but has everything to do with controlling future content delivery.

If they can figure out ways to throttle you now, they can "cattle gate" you into future services.

AnonDOG
@kaballero.com

AnonDOG

Anon

320 MB per hour does not ...

320 MB per hour does not equate to 1 GB in ten hours...

320 down x 105 up per hour is 425 M per hour. Clearly that is almost 1/2 GB/Hour...

It is one thing for Verizon help staff to fail to comprehend basic math...

jamesb478
join:2005-12-29
Foster, RI

1 recommendation

jamesb478

Member

any spare tokens?

If anyone has one of the invite tokens to give out, please give me a PM with the info. Thanks!
rbrugman
join:2002-09-22
Marquette, MI

rbrugman to devnuller

Member

to devnuller

Re: Charter

Well I do have a business account and in my contract it says unlimited usage, so if they want to break the contract it lets me find a better ISP
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