dodgetech2
join:2002-01-01
Gouldsboro, PA
 ·ProLog
 ·Vonage
1 edit | Not that bad
Well, at least it was only 5 hours....I guess it could have been much worse.
There are always going to be outages....I don't see how this is avoidable...
weather its a cut fiber, or a problem at the plant.....these things happen..yeah it sucks when it happens to you, but hey, life goes on  |
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hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
clubs:
·QuantumVoice
 ·AT&T Southeast
·RoadRunner Cable
| People
Dont people understand things can't be up 100 percent of the time.
People should look at there internet and cell phones different when it goes down.
Big deal, net and cell phones are out doesnt mean the world is coming to a end. 
IMO.. SH** HAPPENS PEOPLE GET OVER IT |
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Maxeh
Woot?
Premium
join:2002-12-23
Chicago, IL
clubs: | reply to dodgetech2
Re: Not that bad
fiber is a double edged sword  fast speeds, but damn fragile
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Woot? |
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Maxeh
Woot?
Premium
join:2002-12-23
Chicago, IL
clubs:
·DSL EXTREME
1 edit | reply to hayabusa3303
Re: People
you can't take that outlook when looking at it from say an enterprise perspective, every second of uptime counts (believe me i know, i work in a datacenter)
in this case it may have been cell service and internet, but let's just say a portion of those folks use VoIP with no copper coming in and they had a emergency, both cell and net were down, how were they to call 911? uptime counts. |
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Siryak
join:2005-11-26 | reply to dodgetech2
Re: Not that bad
Yah when Wildblue's Fiber backbone to their Laredo NOC got cut it took them 2 days to fix the dang thing.
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Wildblue Pro Pack / Beam 40 / Laredo NOC / Windows MCE SP2 |
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Maxeh
Woot?
Premium
join:2002-12-23
Chicago, IL
clubs: | fiber isn't an easy thing to fix, it all depends on how it was cut, and how much was damaged.
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Woot? |
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TigerNutz
Laissez les bons temps rouler
Premium
join:2000-12-23
Little Rock, AR | outages
When one of these fiber lines get hit more people are going to feel it 'cause of the simple fact it carries more subscribers/data than the old copper cables.
So....you are going to hear a lot more bitchin' |
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Trinijoy
Premium
join:2005-09-12
Brick, NJ | Okay...
So why are people mad a Qwest when they had nothing to do with it? |
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Frink
Professor
join:2000-07-13
Scotch Plains, NJ
| reply to hayabusa3303
Re: People
said by hayabusa3303  :Dont people understand things can't be up 100 percent of the time. People should look at there internet and cell phones different when it goes down. Big deal, net and cell phones are out doesnt mean the world is coming to a end. IMO.. SH** HAPPENS PEOPLE GET OVER IT Redundancy is simple. Shit happens a great deal more to poorly (cheaply) planned networks. |
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Frink
Professor
join:2000-07-13
Scotch Plains, NJ
| reply to Trinijoy
Re: Okay...
said by Trinijoy :So why are people mad a Qwest when they had nothing to do with it? see my above post. It is as much Quests fault as the construction crew for not providing a redundant fibre path, if not more. |
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alchav
join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
|  reply to Frink
Re: People
said by Frink :said by hayabusa3303 :Don't people understand things can't be up 100 percent of the time. People should look at their internet and cell phones different when it goes down. Big deal, net and cell phones are out doesn't mean the world is coming to a end. IMO.. SH** HAPPENS PEOPLE GET OVER IT Redundancy is simple. Shit happens a great deal more to poorly (cheaply) planned networks. Redundancy is not simple or cheap, and sometimes you only have one path to a location. People want Cheap, Fast, Quality Service, and cry out loud went they don't get it. This also happened when Copper was used, but like someone said, more people are affected now. A better solution would be better tracking of underground utilities, and a faster more efficient way of repairing them. |
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viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25
·Qwest.net
| Is KathrynV spinning?
Just curious where the anger is. None of the articles linked either in this post or previous posts with linked articles once used the word "angry". There was this from a previous post:
'Qwest customers had reason to be upset...'.
However, this line from this post
"Qwest disappointed already-angry customers...",
seems to be spin. If I want spin, I'll watch Fox News, or a Bush press conference. One may be able to assume SOMEONE was angry, but that was never stated in any of the articles. |
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ArgMeMatey
join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI
·AT&T Midwest
| Expect nothing and you will not be disappointed
A lot of people don't read the fine print. Carriers are happy to sell you what they can, but unless you're willing to pay for redundancy, you get bumped if there's a problem.
A lot of people think fiber is automatically in ring configuration (UPSR or BLSR), when sometimes it is just point-to-point.
Even if it is configured as a ring, it is sometimes "collapsed" temporarily (this is a ring shaped more like an hourglass) until the carrier has the money or traffic to justify a fully diverse network. Verbal date estimates by salespeople cannot be taken to the bank.
Then even when it is configured as a ring, large regional rings following heavily-used auto and utility rights-of-way can have weekly or even daily problems with squirrels, backhoes, lightning, car crashes, and so on. It's a challenge for any carrier to balance response time with profit.
If your contract does not include an SLA and a detailed map or rundown of circuit segments, you can assume you'll get best effort, but no more.
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USNG:16TDN2870 Find your Lat-Long: Geocoder |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to Frink
Re: Okay...
said by Frink : It is as much Quests fault as the construction crew for not providing a redundant fibre path, if not more. Redundancy is definitely a good idea. But you can't have redundancy everywhere there is fiber. Backbones sure. Major paths sure. But not to every FTTN location. Farmers and construction crews will still cause outages. You can't make everything 100% available.
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My BLOG
My Web Page |
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Fatal Vector
join:2005-11-26 | reply to alchav
Re: People
People just expect that when they are paying premium prices for service, that service should be working and they dont want to hear excuses. |
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Fatal Vector
join:2005-11-26
| reply to ArgMeMatey
Re: Expect nothing and you will not be disappointed
"It's a challenge for any carrier to balance response time with profit. "
Ballance response time with profit my ass. People are paying for service at what amounts to premium prices and they expect that service to be working when they need to use it. The company shouldn't have offered the service if they couldn't provide it reliably, Especially when a whole city or region is down, which is not just some small outage to a couple of people.
Amazing how many corporate apologists there seem to be out there. It's OK for them to rip off for service, but then the customer has to kiss their ass and wait while they "ballance response time with profit". |
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ArgMeMatey
join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI
·AT&T Midwest
| said by Fatal Vector :Amazing how many corporate apologists there seem to be out there. It's OK for them to rip off for service, but then the customer has to kiss their ass and wait while they "balance response time with profit". Bring it on. I stand by all my remarks in their entirety. Don't assume I am apologizing for anyone; I am just pointing out that we're all dealing with the used-car salesmen of the 21st century.
Nobody guarantees anything will be working all the time under all possible circumstances. The carrier who provides the best service wins that segment of the market. People who don't pay as much don't get as much.
How do you suggest the problem be solved? |
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srobmw
join:2005-10-01
New Windsor, NY
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Maxeh
Re: Not that bad
Actually, fiber is relatively easy to fix.
5 Hours to restore a cut fiber is outstanding.
A 216 fiber cable can be placed and respliced in several hours.
A 3600 pair paper insulated copper cable would've probably taken a couple weeks. |
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dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
| reply to Fatal Vector
Re: People
said by Fatal Vector :People just expect that when they are paying premium prices for service, that service should be working and they dont want to hear excuses. Sorry duder, there is no Santa Claus, babies do not come from the stork, and there is no such thing as a failure-proof telecommunications system. If you can't handle that, you can cut your chances and buy a second circuit to cut your chances of downtime because Backhoe Bob didn't call for a cable locate before digging.
The $45/month "premium prices" or so you pay for DSL, cable, mobile phone or whatever does not entitle you to 100% uptime anymore than someone paying $400/month for a T1 or thousands a month for a DS3.
People here who have absolutely no clue how telco networks operate (which describes most of you) throw around words like "redundancy" as if every single strand of fiber, copper pair and piece of equipment that isn't redundant or failure-proof is a result of Big Evil Corporate Greed. Sorry kiddies, but installing an entirely new fiber conduit to avoid 6 hours of downtime every 5 years or so the fiber is cut just ain't going to happen, so expect that once in a great while you won't be able to play WoW or use your cell phone for half a day.
Fiber cuts happen, and rarely are they the fault of the telco. It takes time to locate the cut, get digging equipment to expose the fiber and repair many tiny fiber strands, which is much more difficult and time consuming than splicing copper pairs. Add on the occasional need to get city permits to block traffic and dig up a street, pump out water and provide ventilation and 6 hours is at the low end of what it takes to fix a fiber cut no matter how much money and manpower you throw at it, and 12-18 hours isn't at all unreasonable for a major cut. |
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dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
| reply to srobmw
Re: Not that bad
said by srobmw :Actually, fiber is relatively easy to fix. 5 Hours to restore a cut fiber is outstanding. A 216 fiber cable can be placed and respliced in several hours. A 3600 pair paper insulated copper cable would've probably taken a couple weeks. It doesn't take nearly that long for a cable cut- I've routinely seen 1200 pr cable cuts fixed in a day. A 3600 pr cut might take a couple of days, not weeks. |
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